Cubs acquire Tommy La Stella for Arodys Vizcaino

[Guest]

This was Sickels going into 2014 on La Stella

 

2) Tommy La Stella, 2B, Grade B: Borderline B-. What? Why so high? Simple: I get the Matt Carpenter/Allen Craig St. Louis Cardinals type massively underrated prospect vibe with this one, and I swore this year that I won’t get talked out of where my analysis leads me. La Stella can simply hit and his fielding is underrated. My main concern is durability, but if injuries don’t get in the way I think he is going to outperform a lot of guys who get more hype.

[MWV]

A reader comment Re: La Stella from last years BA AFL Notebook:

 

Shame he wasn't even tabbed for the Fall Stars game when he's getting the best results in the non-Kris Bryant division

[Deeg]

Maybe La Stella can play left? I mean, if he's almost-average at 2B it doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility. If the Cubs don't make any significant OF moves I suppose La Stella might be an option as half of a LF platoon - he won't SLG anything, but if he could give you a .340 OBP out there with average defense he'd have some short-term use.

[Guest]

I like this move. LaStalla will play and Vizcaino is down the depth chart.

[UK1679666180]

One marginal player for another, one that is traded from a position of strength from a depth chart standpoint for a player that comes from a position of weakness.

 

He's what you'll likely want from a cost controlled utility guy with an outside shot of his bat carrying into a valuable starting position, similar to where Vizcaino is likely projected as a middle of the road bullpen guy with the potential go into setup/closer.

[CubsWin]

At first blush, I wasn't thrilled with this deal. A lot of that feeling had to do with Vizcaino's name value and the hopes I had for him. Those hopes took a hit this year when he struggled in AAA. He righted that ship after a terrible start, but his command was still shaky. Armando Rivero seemed to have passed him on the readiness/pecking order list, so while I'm still a believer in Vizcaino as a potential impact reliever, the Cubs were definitely dealing from a place of depth.

 

I wasn't too familiar with LaStella, but after doing some research, he reminded me a lot of Matt Carpenter. I'm not saying LaStella is going to be as good as Carpenter, but his minor league numbers are as good if not slightly better and were produced while a year younger at every level.

 

Overall, in 1197 minor league PAs, LaStella hit .322/.407/.474 while striking out less than he walked at every level on the way up (102 K/132 BB). In 1448 minor league PAs, Carpenter hit .297/.408/.450, striking out 212 times against 210 walks. Carpenter is 6'3", 215 while LaStella is quite a bit smaller at 5'11", 185. Carpenter's major league SLG sits at .433. If LaStella can beat that, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

In fact, LaStella's minor league numbers are similar to Pedroia's but Dustin produced his while about 3 years younger. So not similar in terms of upside, but he is the same type or profile of player just with less power. He seems like he has a floor of a very solid left-handed, bench player with a ceiling of a starter who puts up a line .280/.360./400.

 

The Cubs definitely traded from depth by dealing a RH relief arm, but I don't think they added to a position of depth, at least not yet. While it's true the Cubs have a glut of MIFers in the system, they don't have one yet in the majors. And they certainly don't have a lot of left-handed bats that get on base often.

 

All in all, I understand the deal. It has a chance of being a good deal for both teams. The Cubs definitely got the player with the highest floor.

[Guest]

Cubs lose 832k in bonus money (won't matter much because we'll blow past the cap - probably worth more to Atlanta)

 

Kind of interesting to see after they overvalued the slots in 2013.

 

EDIT - NM that's 2014 bonus pool money

 

So we traded bonus money from 2014? Is that from the international signing period? Just trying to get a handle on this since I don't follow international stuff that closely.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Cubs lose 832k in bonus money (won't matter much because we'll blow past the cap - probably worth more to Atlanta)

 

Kind of interesting to see after they overvalued the slots in 2013.

 

EDIT - NM that's 2014 bonus pool money

 

So we traded bonus money from 2014? Is that from the international signing period? Just trying to get a handle on this since I don't follow international stuff that closely.

 

 

Yes, they traded bonus pool chunks from the current signing period, which started July 2 and runs through next June.

 

They are forbidden from signing anyone over $250k because of how they blew their caps in the previous signing period, so the pools weren't doing them much good.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

http://d3k2oh6evki4b7.cloudfront.net/images-009/headshots/9/9ff584c8_mlbam.jpg

 

That's a whole lotta neck.

[Guest]

Cubs lose 832k in bonus money (won't matter much because we'll blow past the cap - probably worth more to Atlanta)

 

Kind of interesting to see after they overvalued the slots in 2013.

 

EDIT - NM that's 2014 bonus pool money

 

So we traded bonus money from 2014? Is that from the international signing period? Just trying to get a handle on this since I don't follow international stuff that closely.

 

 

Yes, they traded bonus pool chunks from the current signing period, which started July 2 and runs through next June.

 

They are forbidden from signing anyone over $250k because of how they blew their caps in the previous signing period, so the pools weren't doing them much good.

 

Cool, thanks. I remember us going way over cap in 2013 and that they were limited this year, just didn't know that the international signing period runs for a year. Makes more sense now.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Arodys was an incredibly sexy return for a few months of Paul Maholm, but its been harder and harder to tell myself that his future was as something more than an oft injured back end reliever.

 

In La Stella, we seem to have acquired Steven Bruno's ceiling. I can't imagine he has any bearing on the future of Castro or Baez so much as that of Logan Watkins.

[Guest]

It seems to me that OBP is a skill that plays a lot more in a guy that's an everyday player rather than a utility infielder. How often do you see guys regarded as great pinch-hitters because they walk a lot?

 

Mark Sweeney. Dave Magadan. Your pinch hitter isn't the guy you need to come in and win you the game. They are the guys needed to get on base to provide opportunities for your everyday line up guys. OBP is very valuable to your bench, and I think this is a very nice addition to the roster.

[SouthSideRyan]

As for La Stella being a more valuable asset, I think that's pretty obviously true. Why did the slots go with Vizcaino and not the other way around if it wasn't?

 

The slots were useless to us. We were capped, not being able to sign anyone over 250,000. We were well under our limits and not likely to spend much more this spending period, so they were disposable.

 

Did you just ask a rhetorical question, then immediately answer it?

[Guest]

Cubs lose 832k in bonus money (won't matter much because we'll blow past the cap - probably worth more to Atlanta)

 

Kind of interesting to see after they overvalued the slots in 2013.

 

EDIT - NM that's 2014 bonus pool money

 

So we traded bonus money from 2014? Is that from the international signing period? Just trying to get a handle on this since I don't follow international stuff that closely.

 

 

Yes, they traded bonus pool chunks from the current signing period, which started July 2 and runs through next June.

 

They are forbidden from signing anyone over $250k because of how they blew their caps in the previous signing period, so the pools weren't doing them much good.

 

Cool, thanks. I remember us going way over cap in 2013 and that they were limited this year, just didn't know that the international signing period runs for a year. Makes more sense now.

 

And there are rumblings the Cubs will go well over again in 2015-16.

[UMFan83]

I know this isn't exactly a hot take, but I find it a little funny that we traded Maholm for La Stella and the right to rehab Vizcaino for 2.5 years.

[Guest]

thats actually the definition of a hot take

[jersey cubs fan]

thats actually the definition of a hot take

Saying you find it a little funny is barely even a lukewarm comment, and far from a hot take.

[Guest]

thats actually the definition of a hot take

Saying you find it a little funny is barely even a lukewarm comment, and far from a hot take.

 

i absolutely 100% knew you were going to argue about whether that's actually a hot take or not when i was just giving um crap

[jersey cubs fan]

thats actually the definition of a hot take

Saying you find it a little funny is barely even a lukewarm comment, and far from a hot take.

 

i absolutely 100% knew you were going to argue about whether that's actually a hot take or not when i was just giving um crap

 

I believe you were the one who began the argument about whether or not it was a hot take.

[craig]

Just to Clarify on the IFA slots:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/trade-central-cubs-braves-swap-players-international-slots/

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2014-15-mlb-international-bonus-pools-and-slot-values/

 

1. All of the slots were 2014 slots, not 2015 slots. (At least, that's BA's understanding).

 

2. BA says the Braves had been within $100K of exhausting their cap. The trade frees us $830K more for them.

 

3. There is a cap on how much a team can trade for: 50% of their slot. If the Cubs had given up the three slots, and the Braves not returned a smaller slot, that would have exceeded the Braves acquisition allowance.

 

In any trade, seeing who is adding value to make a deal mutually acceptable is an insight into the internal valuations. Presumably they didn't do the trade 1-for-1 because Atlanta wouldn't, and the Cubs needed to sweeten the deal to make it work.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, but this feels like a Jim Hendry trade.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, but this feels like a Jim Hendry trade.

based on what?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, but this feels like a Jim Hendry trade.

based on what?

 

Trading a former top prospect at a fraction of their peak value (not saying they screwed up, it happens) and trading for a fringy second baseman.

 

Trading for fringy second basemen was always Hendry's go-to.

[Banedon]

Trading for fringy second basemen was always Hendry's go-to.

 

But it was almost always older fringy second basemen, wasn't it?

[mul21]

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, but this feels like a Jim Hendry trade.

 

They didn't trade for Juan Pierre or send some ridiculous assets to get this guy. He has a quantifiable, valuable skill set and they gave up an oft injured, high risk asset from a position of depth. That's like the complete opposite of a Jim Hendry trade. You're getting hung up on the fact that they wanted someone left handed.

 

Edit: And I guess that he's a 2B.

Edited November 17, 2014 by mul21