Week 11: Vikings (4-5) @ Bears (suck), Noon CBS/780

[jersey cubs fan]

Would you be comfortable with Trestman/Kroemer - Rex Ryan next season?

 

Meaning Rex Ryan as DC under Trestman?

 

Yes

 

Correct. Ryan is there to shore up the defense and generally make Trestman uncomfortable.

 

I would not be comfortable with that, no. I could envision a scenario where it would work, but I do not think there is much to be gained from hiring an almost blatant replacement for your head coach while you could just stop pretending and actually replace him. Rex Ryan's personality probably does not fit under the umbrella of a Marc Trestman coached team.

 

Trestman had a more positive affect on the offense last year than I predicted, but all of that has been erased so far this year and I do not think there is a chance of the Bears succeeding under him going forward.

 

That doesn't even take into account the fact that I doubt Rex takes that job.

[WrigleyField 22]

It's a scenario that works in theory. But well past the point of practicality, even if the offense turns it around the next 7 games.

 

An interesting scenario is this- Trestman gets canned within the next two weeks and Kromer takes over as interim HC and the offense looks better in the last 5 weeks and Kromer does well with the locker room. Do you give Kromer the chance full time with his own DC hire (Rex if you like).

 

I can't recall how Kromer did as interim of NO that one year, but that's kind of why I bring him up in this hypothetical.

 

 

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[Guest]

I'm with goony. Having Rex under Trestman will just lead to all sorts of questions (real or perceived) about how much power Trestman has and would likely undermine him.

[jersey cubs fan]

I can't recall how Kromer did as interim of NO that one year, but that's kind of why I bring him up in this hypothetical.

 

2-4

 

 

I really don't know what he has done to show he's the guy for the job. OC in name only of a poorly run offense.

[WrigleyField 22]

I can't recall how Kromer did as interim of NO that one year, but that's kind of why I bring him up in this hypothetical.

 

2-4

 

 

I really don't know what he has done to show he's the guy for the job. OC in name only of a poorly run offense.

He was fairly well regarded before Chicago and has worked under good Head Coaches. He supposedly is the OC but it's hard to know how much he actually does. To be plausible it first would require a dramatic turnaround if he became interim and he seems to me the most likely candidate to become interim if Trestman was canned mid season.

 

There doesn't seem to be a great track record of interims who secured a long term role (Frazier, Singletary, Garrett the three that pop in my mind).

 

Just thinking about what it would take for a same offense/new defense scenario and while Trestman has to do a lot more to make a case, Kroner could make a good case just by improving the offense since he doesn't have all of Trestman's current negatives.

 

 

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[Guest]

Another mock draft - Bears get Alabama safety Landon Collins at 8: http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24793850/nfl-mock-draft-marcus-peters-slips-but-not-out-of-round-one

 

Rob Rang's mock has them going Shane Ray at 8 (Thompson gone at 7, Collins picked 9). Ray has been amazing this year, but I don't know that he fits. He's smaller than Shea was at DE, much more athletic, but you'd be taking a top 10 pick as a guy you can't put on the field for 3 downs.....unless he can play the Von Miller role at SLB in the base D and DE in nickel.

 

Might work if we go 3-4, otherwise I'd want Collins. He's a beast.

 

I really like Collins but Alabama players make me nervous after reading stories last spring quoting scouts theorizing the reason so many highly drafted Saban players struggle in the NFL is because they're far more beat up, overused and injured after 3-4 years at Alabama than similar prospects from other colleges. I'm not sure how great that theory is but it did make me pause. Anecdotally, on a team with quite a few 4- and 5- star recruits not getting playing time, Collins plays gunner on STs and opens himself up to hits that other first round picks wouldn't.

[jersey cubs fan]

I can't recall how Kromer did as interim of NO that one year, but that's kind of why I bring him up in this hypothetical.

 

2-4

 

 

I really don't know what he has done to show he's the guy for the job. OC in name only of a poorly run offense.

He was fairly well regarded before Chicago and has worked under good Head Coaches. He supposedly is the OC but it's hard to know how much he actually does. To be plausible it first would require a dramatic turnaround if he became interim and he seems to me the most likely candidate to become interim if Trestman was canned mid season.

 

There doesn't seem to be a great track record of interims who secured a long term role (Frazier, Singletary, Garrett the three that pop in my mind).

 

Just thinking about what it would take for a same offense/new defense scenario and while Trestman has to do a lot more to make a case, Kroner could make a good case just by improving the offense since he doesn't have all of Trestman's current negatives.

 

The offense hasn't been good enough for me to bother thinking of ways to try to keep it stable. Sure, if they fired Trestman tomorrow and everything magically worked the way it was supposed to, then I'd entertain the idea of bringing back Kromer. But you would still have a very poor overall coaching staff and need major changes.

[sneakypower]

I really like Collins but Alabama players make me nervous after reading stories last spring quoting scouts theorizing the reason so many highly drafted Saban players struggle in the NFL is because they're far more beat up, overused and injured after 3-4 years at Alabama than similar prospects from other colleges. I'm not sure how great that theory is but it did make me pause.

i'd kind of wondered if it was because the surrounding talent level was such that they're in a best-case scenario for showcasing playmaking ability in a way that won't really transfer over

 

assumptions:

- it didn't matter that Trent Richardson can't make the right cuts because he was always given gaping holes to run though

- it didn't matter that some of these CBs like Arenas, Kirkpatrick, Milliner can't actually cover real great because the D-Line was suffocating the QB

 

it seemed to me too, that USC used to have this problem...but some of these guys are so physically freakish that they'll excel regardless

[WrigleyField 22]

I can't recall how Kromer did as interim of NO that one year, but that's kind of why I bring him up in this hypothetical.

 

2-4

 

 

I really don't know what he has done to show he's the guy for the job. OC in name only of a poorly run offense.

He was fairly well regarded before Chicago and has worked under good Head Coaches. He supposedly is the OC but it's hard to know how much he actually does. To be plausible it first would require a dramatic turnaround if he became interim and he seems to me the most likely candidate to become interim if Trestman was canned mid season.

 

There doesn't seem to be a great track record of interims who secured a long term role (Frazier, Singletary, Garrett the three that pop in my mind).

 

Just thinking about what it would take for a same offense/new defense scenario and while Trestman has to do a lot more to make a case, Kroner could make a good case just by improving the offense since he doesn't have all of Trestman's current negatives.

 

The offense hasn't been good enough for me to bother thinking of ways to try to keep it stable. Sure, if they fired Trestman tomorrow and everything magically worked the way it was supposed to, then I'd entertain the idea of bringing back Kromer. But you would still have a very poor overall coaching staff and need major changes.

I don't have interest either at this point but since Trestman/Rex was brought up, I thought this was a more palatable version if something like that happened (given the pre-reqs outlined)

 

 

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[WrigleyField 22]

Hypothetical land- Trestman had to improve all three phases for me to even think about retaining him. Kromer (with 5 games as interim) could improve the offense and get the other two phases to just try a little harder and I'd consider retaining him.

 

Until any of that happens tough the hypothetical land is steered towards complete coaching overhaul.

 

 

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[Banedon]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/jay-cutler-ill-be-the-first-person-to-admit-we-nee,37422/

[minnesotacubsfan]

Well, he has been underwhelming

[Guest]

I really like Collins but Alabama players make me nervous after reading stories last spring quoting scouts theorizing the reason so many highly drafted Saban players struggle in the NFL is because they're far more beat up, overused and injured after 3-4 years at Alabama than similar prospects from other colleges. I'm not sure how great that theory is but it did make me pause.

i'd kind of wondered if it was because the surrounding talent level was such that they're in a best-case scenario for showcasing playmaking ability in a way that won't really transfer over

 

assumptions:

- it didn't matter that Trent Richardson can't make the right cuts because he was always given gaping holes to run though

- it didn't matter that some of these CBs like Arenas, Kirkpatrick, Milliner can't actually cover real great because the D-Line was suffocating the QB

 

it seemed to me too, that USC used to have this problem...but some of these guys are so physically freakish that they'll excel regardless

 

That was another theory suggested in the article I read which definitely makes sense. I can't seem to find it now but I did find this which quotes Mel Kiper and Adam Schefter, blaming Alabama player's lack of success in the NFL on Alabama's system, their players reaching their ceiling in college and their players being too beat up and needing too many surgeries: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2048155-alabama-football-could-former-tide-stars-bama-pedigree-hurt-them-in-nfl-draft

[rawaction]

@mikecwright: Boy if something were 2 happen 2 Trestman, wouldn't be a shortage of applicants based on texts coaches have hit me up with since last night.

 

Is this man calling in a hit?

 

 

 

 

Of course there wouldn't be a shortage of applicants for the job of head coach of the Chicago Bears.

 

I thought Jay Cutler was a coach killer that nobody wanted to have to coach?

[rawaction]

I really like Collins but Alabama players make me nervous after reading stories last spring quoting scouts theorizing the reason so many highly drafted Saban players struggle in the NFL is because they're far more beat up, overused and injured after 3-4 years at Alabama than similar prospects from other colleges. I'm not sure how great that theory is but it did make me pause.

i'd kind of wondered if it was because the surrounding talent level was such that they're in a best-case scenario for showcasing playmaking ability in a way that won't really transfer over

 

assumptions:

- it didn't matter that Trent Richardson can't make the right cuts because he was always given gaping holes to run though

- it didn't matter that some of these CBs like Arenas, Kirkpatrick, Milliner can't actually cover real great because the D-Line was suffocating the QB

 

it seemed to me too, that USC used to have this problem...but some of these guys are so physically freakish that they'll excel regardless

 

That was another theory suggested in the article I read which definitely makes sense. I can't seem to find it now but I did find this which quotes Mel Kiper and Adam Schefter, blaming Alabama player's lack of success in the NFL on Alabama's system, their players reaching their ceiling in college and their players being too beat up and needing too many surgeries: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2048155-alabama-football-could-former-tide-stars-bama-pedigree-hurt-them-in-nfl-draft

 

Collins was really intriguing when thinking the Bears could end up picking 12-16. Now, if they are going to have a top 10 pick, I don't know that he's quite a top 10 talent. And I can't imagine he's the best player on the board at 8 or whatever, even though he's probably in my top 10 players still. Safety is a valuable position, but I don't know if you pass up a potentially great pass rusher or freak LB (like Thompson), or the best OT in the draft for a safety who isn't a cover guy capable of creating several turnovers.

[Guest]

the Bears need a key player with a strong personality on defense. they had that for so many years with Urlacher, and while many, including myself, dismissed the need for leadership on this team, i think it's pretty apparent that no one on this team at the player level has any leadership skill.

 

I'm not pining for the days of Urlacher or Kreutz, but one must admit that when they were here, you knew who ran the locker room. nothing was in disarray, feelings were hurt on occasion, faces were punched, but it seemed like the team was tougher mentally. maybe there is something to the "chip on the shoulder" or "us against the world"-clique-ish mentality. Those teams had an identity, and while that identity started on the field, it perpetuated itself off of it and kept those guys together and strong.

 

i really think that whomever the bears pick needs to have a very high football IQ, and can be respected and followed as well.

[rawaction]

the Bears need a key player with a strong personality on defense. they had that for so many years with Urlacher, and while many, including myself, dismissed the need for leadership on this team, i think it's pretty apparent that no one on this team at the player level has any leadership skill.

 

I'm not pining for the days of Urlacher or Kreutz, but one must admit that when they were here, you knew who ran the locker room. nothing was in disarray, feelings were hurt on occasion, faces were punched, but it seemed like the team was tougher mentally. maybe there is something to the "chip on the shoulder" or "us against the world"-clique-ish mentality. Those teams had an identity, and while that identity started on the field, it perpetuated itself off of it and kept those guys together and strong.

 

i really think that whomever the bears pick needs to have a very high football IQ, and can be respected and followed as well.

 

Yeah, I finally feel that there's something to this. After Urlacher left, the Bears veterans were Briggs who doesn't give a [expletive], Peppers, Tillman who leads by example, and Jennings. Plus, I think a lot of that came from Lovie, who the players respected. I don't think Trestman commands a lockeroom like a HC has to if he doesn't have the players to do so.

 

That being said, I don't think leadership is necessary to win. But I do think you need it when things don't go well.

[Guest]

the thing about it is, there is way too much pressure on the offense to do anything because the defense literally cannot stop anyone on any drive. that's totally not fair to the offense.

 

Am I imagining this or have the Bears gone away from the status quo of winning the toss and deferring to the second half? I feel like one of the past couple games they won the toss and elected to receive, assuming they knew they would give up a TD.

 

i can't remember the last time the bears won a toss and elected to receive. even under Lovie they didn't do it, they always defer to the second.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Its a necessary, win or lose. Too often, because of the sports lexicon of dumb jocks, it's chalked up as meatheads bullying. Incognito was an ass, Kruetz was not

[UMFan83]

FINALLY SOME ACCOUNTABILITY

 

Bears Talk

@CSNBears

#Bears waive WR Santonio Holmes. #BearsTalk

Edited November 11, 2014 by UMFan83

[DiamondMind]

who cares

[Banedon]

FINALLY SOME ACCOUNTABILITY

 

Bears Talk

@CSNBears

#Bears waive WR Santonio Holmes. #BearsTalk

 

Cuz they activated Wilson.

[WrigleyField 22]

Once we realized other offenses aren't punting anymore we had no use for Holmes anyways.

 

 

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[jersey cubs fan]

Its a necessary, win or lose. Too often, because of the sports lexicon of dumb jocks, it's chalked up as meatheads bullying. Incognito was an ass, Kruetz was not

Kreutz was terrible and the team was a complete joke for half his time on the roster.

 

 

There's always a need for leadership and Briggs was also a horrible option for that role. Urlacher filled that role and was a star impact player who made a difference. Kreutz was a freaking center, one of the least important jobs on the starting offense. His leadership was based on being a dick and didn't make anybody any better. He was the face of the offense when the team couldn't play offense.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not pining for the days of Urlacher or Kreutz, but one must admit that when they were here, you knew who ran the locker room. nothing was in disarray,

 

The Bears were a mess for much of Kreutz's tenure.