Cubs Fire Renteria, Hire Maddon

[Guest]

You are like the anti-CubinNY.

 

http://img.pixtale.net/imager/w_327/h_225/crop/9ea88c1e3b1f9208ae4b249ccfc974e3.jpg

 

I thought it was spelled N-A-V-I-N?

 

Hahahahahaha.

[TruffleShuffle]

[Arkish] said that even if the Cubs signed Maddon, Shields and Lester they'd still be 2-3 years away from competing.

I heard that comment too and was about to steer my car into a light post if not for the fresh pizza sitting on my passenger seat. If you want to say they are 2-3 years from reaching the peak of their collective performance, I suppose that argument could be made, but 3 years away from even being a playoff competitor is ridiculous.

 

I don't think people who think like that realize exactly how bad Jaxon, Schierholtz, Lake and Olt were last year and how much playing time those guys were given. Plus Javy being about as bad as he could possibly be. If the Cubs do nothing but replace those guys (plus Veras) with slightly below league average guys they'll be a .500 team.

 

plus all you have to do is look at one of the teams that made the world series this year to know how ridiculous that statement is. the royals were 72-90 in 2012, and their rotation was "anchored" by bruce chen, luke hochevar and luis mendoza. if a team with limited financial resources can pull off that kind of turnaround in two years - hell, in ONE year they improved by 14 wins - then i'm pretty sure the cubs can probably manage to do it as well.

[Deeg]

plus all you have to do is look at one of the teams that made the world series this year to know how ridiculous that statement is. the royals were 72-90 in 2012, and their rotation was "anchored" by bruce chen, luke hochevar and luis mendoza. if a team with limited financial resources can pull off that kind of turnaround in two years - hell, in ONE year they improved by 14 wins - then i'm pretty sure the cubs can probably manage to do it as well.

 

One difference, though, is the core pieces that would lead this Royals team had already had more experience - and relative failure - at the big-league level when they took that 14-game leap than the Cubs' core pieces will have going into next season. By all means spend, and try to compete - but 2016 is probably more realistic given how much production we're going to need from 22 and 23 year-old kids next year to compete.

[RynoRules]

That's a sort of vague statement. More accurate, IMO, is whoever mentioned that we were dragged down by the significant playing time afforded to Olt, Schierholtz, Lake, Barney, Jackson, etc. Just replacing those guys with someone - anyone - who can post a .700 OPS or better / ERA+ of 90 or better and adding Lester probably makes us a contender for a wildcard right away.

[rawaction]

That's a sort of vague statement. More accurate, IMO, is whoever mentioned that we were dragged down by the significant playing time afforded to Olt, Schierholtz, Lake, Barney, Jackson, etc. Just replacing those guys with someone - anyone - who can post a .700 OPS or better / ERA+ of 90 or better and adding Lester probably makes us a contender for a wildcard right away.

 

But the point is, you're giving a lot of those ABs to Baez and Alcantara who failed to produce anything close to a .700 OPS in a decent sample size this year. And throw in that Bryant isn't guaranteed to not struggle either. All while hoping for repeats from Castro, Rizzo, Soler over 140+ games, and the journeymen in the OF platoons.

[Deeg]

That's a sort of vague statement. More accurate, IMO, is whoever mentioned that we were dragged down by the significant playing time afforded to Olt, Schierholtz, Lake, Barney, Jackson, etc. Just replacing those guys with someone - anyone - who can post a .700 OPS or better / ERA+ of 90 or better and adding Lester probably makes us a contender for a wildcard right away.

 

But the point is, you're giving a lot of those ABs to Baez and Alcantara who failed to produce anything close to a .700 OPS in a decent sample size this year. And throw in that Bryant isn't guaranteed to not struggle either. All while hoping for repeats from Castro, Rizzo, Soler over 140+ games, and the journeymen in the OF platoons.

 

That is indeed the point. By all means, the Cubs should try and field a competitive team next season - not least because they should have been trying harder to do that for the last three years, and because they're adding one of the best managers in the game. They should spend money, and try to add pieces that can help win games in 2015 and beyond.

 

But if you're going to commit to playing guys like Baez, Bryant, Soler and Alcantara every day - as I think you should - then I think you have to accept that the Cubs are not as far along in this process as the Royals were going into 2013. Unless you're going to sell-out the long-term plan, as Theo is so fond of saying, it's probably not realistic to think the Cubs are going to be playoff contenders next season. They should announce to the world that they plan to be, and act accordingly - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep our expectations reasonable.

[rawaction]

That's a sort of vague statement. More accurate, IMO, is whoever mentioned that we were dragged down by the significant playing time afforded to Olt, Schierholtz, Lake, Barney, Jackson, etc. Just replacing those guys with someone - anyone - who can post a .700 OPS or better / ERA+ of 90 or better and adding Lester probably makes us a contender for a wildcard right away.

 

But the point is, you're giving a lot of those ABs to Baez and Alcantara who failed to produce anything close to a .700 OPS in a decent sample size this year. And throw in that Bryant isn't guaranteed to not struggle either. All while hoping for repeats from Castro, Rizzo, Soler over 140+ games, and the journeymen in the OF platoons.

 

That is indeed the point. By all means, the Cubs should try and field a competitive team next season - not least because they should have been trying harder to do that for the last three years, and because they're adding one of the best managers in the game. They should spend money, and try to add pieces that can help win games in 2015 and beyond.

 

But if you're going to commit to playing guys like Baez, Bryant, Soler and Alcantara every day - as I think you should - then I think you have to accept that the Cubs are not as far along in this process as the Royals were going into 2013. Unless you're going to sell-out the long-term plan, as Theo is so fond of saying, it's probably not realistic to think the Cubs are going to be playoff contenders next season. They should announce to the world that they plan to be, and act accordingly - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep our expectations reasonable.

 

If there's 1 thing the Cubs have going for them that the Royals didn't is that Rizzo is probably slightly ahead of 2012 Butler, maybe more when you consider one actually plays a position. Castro is probably a little lesser than Gordon, but plays a premium position. And Arrieta is a good bit better than Guthrie was in 2012. So, if the Cubs do like they did and add an ace (they got Shields) and get lucky with a secondary arm (they got Santana while waiting on Ventura), then I could see a playoff appearance, but the Cubs also had further to go as a team and in a tougher division.

[Guest]

I realized you sort of mentioned the positions, but Rizzo is a lot better than 2012 Butler and Castro is right there with him (him being Butler), if not better.

 

The rest of the Cubs' young talent is also better and I'd say the tougher division thing might at least be debatable.

[Guest]

They're very clearly going to go with young guys at 4 positions next year with Soler/Bryant/Baez/Alcantara, maybe 3 if circumstances conspire and Alcantara falls off the list. 3 top 10 position players and another top 25-50 guy. With a solid offseason(e.g. not even "omg Shields+Lester+Martin"), they'd need about 9 wins from those 4 to project as competitive as any other team, maybe less if the upgrades they make are the right ones. Given the pedigree and performance to date of the prospects that we're breaking in, that's not really an unreasonable bar to clear.

[Guest]

They're very clearly going to go with young guys at 4 positions next year with Soler/Bryant/Baez/Alcantara, maybe 3 if circumstances conspire and Alcantara falls off the list. 3 top 10 position players and another top 25-50 guy. With a solid offseason(e.g. not even "omg Shields+Lester+Martin"), they'd need about 9 wins from those 4 to project as competitive as any other team, maybe less if the upgrades they make are the right ones. Given the pedigree and performance to date of the prospects that we're breaking in, that's not really an unreasonable bar to clear.

 

What does that mean?

[Guest]

They're very clearly going to go with young guys at 4 positions next year with Soler/Bryant/Baez/Alcantara, maybe 3 if circumstances conspire and Alcantara falls off the list. 3 top 10 position players and another top 25-50 guy. With a solid offseason(e.g. not even "omg Shields+Lester+Martin"), they'd need about 9 wins from those 4 to project as competitive as any other team, maybe less if the upgrades they make are the right ones. Given the pedigree and performance to date of the prospects that we're breaking in, that's not really an unreasonable bar to clear.

 

What does that mean?

 

Basically, that whether they project for 82 wins or 84 wins come January doesn't matter very much because those projections are regressed so much. When those ZiPS team projections come out, you've got like 1-2 teams that project above 85, so if you're within a couple wins of the top, then you're there, you're competitive, there's no additional step to take.

[Guest]

I hope they announce this today.

[RynoRules]

We are also assuming that they won't seek an upgrade at catcher or in CF/LF. I think they will, and as I mentioned earlier, I'd go after Mike Morse on a two-year deal with third year option. You can pencil him in for .700-plus OPS.

[Guest]

This is sort of a tack-on to their piece from the other day on this.

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/10/30/7085215/joe-maddon-manager-tampa-bay-rays-chicago-cubs-baseball

[DiamondMind]

when is the press conference?

[rawaction]

This is the Brian Roberts trade all over again isn't it.

[Sammy Sofa]

This is the Brian Roberts trade all over again isn't it.

 

http://i.imgur.com/qhBrn6S.gif

[Guest]

If anything, it'd be more like Anibal Sanchez.

[Schwarber Fan]

or Dan Haren

[rocket]

has anyone spotted joe maddon singing go cubs go at murphy's yet

[Sammy Sofa]

I hate you hacks so very much.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

has anyone spotted joe maddon singing go cubs go at murphy's yet

many reports of a white-haired gentleman with black glasses at starbucks.

[Vinestal]

*sigh* this [expletive] is gonna drag on forever

[UMFan83]

has anyone spotted joe maddon singing go cubs go at murphy's yet

many reports of a white-haired gentleman with black glasses at starbucks.

 

http://www.scrubbles.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/tee_fantagrape.jpg

[WrigleyField 22]

Really? I think we'll hear something Monday at the latest. If we don't I doubt it happens. PC by next Friday.

 

 

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