2013-2014 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Guest]

Noah is just outside the Top 5 in PER for Centers in the Eastern Conference. He just doesn't score enough points to be a part of that discussion.

[SpongeWorthy]

Noah is just outside the Top 5 in PER for Centers in the Eastern Conference. He just doesn't score enough points to be a part of that discussion.

 

But he's already a part of that discussion. It's not like this sprung up from this thread. It's been a talking point on national TV for a couple of weeks.

[Guest]

I wasn't referring to what talking heads actually discuss. In an intellectually honest discussion, the question "Does Noah deserve MVP votes" is answered pretty quickly with "No". That's not a slight on Noah, who has more value than a lot of statistically similar players for all the reasons people love him and cause talking heads to flap about him, but that's the reality if you want to talk about actual value.

[Guest]

If someone were even casually following the league this year, it's pretty obvious that because of injuries and the general dumpster fire that is the East, that there aren't very many clear cut MVP candidates outside of Lebron and Durant.

 

As of now it's Lebron/Durant in the top 2 spots. Chris Paul would be there but he's missed a 3rd of the season. Curry is probably a lock for top 5.

 

Then you have a group that includes George (who has been been pretty mediocre since the new year), Harden, Blake, Dragic, Noah, Dirk, Dragic (seriously).

 

Edit: Noah will get a lot more MVP votes than guys with good counting stats like Love, Kyrie, Melo, etc.

 

Those guys don't just have good counting stats; most of them have much better efficiency stats.

 

And I made it pretty clear in my first post that this was about whether he deserved votes, not whether he'd get them.

[imb]

Joakhim Noah is a goddamned hero. You could plug him into any team in the NBA and he would make them better. He would get the Knicks to the playoffs.

[CubInOK]

Joakhim Noah is a goddamned hero. You could plug him into any team in the NBA and he would make them better. He would get the Knicks to the playoffs.

You say that like making the playoffs in the East is an accomplishment.

[Sammy Sofa]

Noah and I totally went to school together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted, he was in kindergarten and I was in 5th grade and we had nothing to do with each other, BUT I'M STILL DROPPING NAMES.

[Guest]

Holy [expletive], the Knicks aren't in the playoffs in this dreadful conference? ROFL

 

I knew they were bad but god damn.

[pitchcs]

I'm not following enough to know how possible it is (but guessing not possible at all) but Noah getting MVP would be awesome.

 

It's not, but he should definitely get some votes and finish top 5.

 

Without even looking at the numbers, I can assuredly say this is false.

 

Unless you mean he will get votes and finish top 5 (and not "should.") That one I can't say as definitively.

 

Why not? Where would this team be without him?

 

Because he is not one of the five most valuable players in the NBA this season.

 

I didn't answer the second question because it is irrelevant.

 

Because thats what "Valuable" means in the definition of the award?

[dcvalpo]

Noah and I totally went to school together.

 

Granted, he was in kindergarten and I was in 5th grade and we had nothing to do with each other, BUT I'M STILL DROPPING NAMES.

 

OMC, shots have been fired...where you at??

[Brian]

Can we get Noah $100 for the NSBB homie of the year award or something at least.

[Guest]

 

Because thats what "Valuable" means in the definition of the award?

 

 

It's what valuable means and the interpretation you are talking about is wrong and horribly flawed.

[Ryne Ween]

Noah is just outside the Top 5 in PER for Centers in the Eastern Conference. He just doesn't score enough points to be a part of that discussion.

 

Should Andray Blache and Brook Lopez be a part of the discussion?

 

Noah could easily be 5th in MVP voting. Tony Parker has gotten that a couple times and nobody was outraged. Noah is a top defensve player with a great rebounding rate and a fantastic assist ratio. Hes clearly the leader and best player on a good team. His lack of scoring obviously prevents him from being a real MVP candidate but hes a legit top 10 in MVP voting.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Ryne Ween

[Irrelevant Dude]

Is there an argument to be made for anyone outside of Thibs to win coach of the year?

[Ryne Ween]

Is there an argument to be made for anyone outside of Thibs to win coach of the year?

 

Yea, Vogel has a great argument. Hornicek and Dwayne Casey also probably will get more votes. Id say Hornicek should win the award. That team came out of nowhere.

[Banedon]

Whelp, I guess I don't have any more excuses to keep ignoring this team. I only watched the last 5 min of the 4th, and the OT...but hot damn was that fun.

 

"We played with a lot of hate … a lot of hate."

 

The teams split this season series, 2-2, but the Bulls are 9-6 against Miami since the start of the 2010-11 regular season, the most losses the Heat have taken to any team in that span.

[pitchcs]

 

Because thats what "Valuable" means in the definition of the award?

 

 

It's what valuable means and the interpretation you are talking about is wrong and horribly flawed.

 

Well it's the name of the award, not MOP.

[Guest]

Noah is just outside the Top 5 in PER for Centers in the Eastern Conference. He just doesn't score enough points to be a part of that discussion.

 

Should Andray Blache and Brook Lopez be a part of the discussion?

 

Noah could easily be 5th in MVP voting. Tony Parker has gotten that a couple times and nobody was outraged. Noah is a top defensve player with a great rebounding rate and a fantastic assist ratio. Hes clearly the leader and best player on a good team. His lack of scoring obviously prevents him from being a real MVP candidate but hes a legit top 10 in MVP voting.

 

No they shouldn't, that's the point.

 

Tony Parker scored 20 points per game every time he's gotten any type of MVP attention.

[Ryne Ween]

My point was that ruling a guy out on the basis of PER doesn't work because PER doesn't always work. And I'm not arguing that Noah should be considered for MVP. But ruling him out as somebody who couldn't get a few 3rd place votes and finish in the middle of the top 10 simply because is not a scorer is not fair. The fact that he, as we discussed, is putting up historically high assist numbers for a big, leads the break with his handles and has developed a fair scoring game makes him a valuable offensive player. That combined with his elite defense and rebounding makes him as attractive an MVP candidate as Tony Parker ever was. It's arguable that Tony Parker has ever been top 5 at his position and you could argue that Noah is currently the best 5 in the NBA.

 

Parker was a candidate because his team wins so many games and the voters feel the need to credit a player. I think te same is true for Noah. He is clearly the best player on a team that is gonna win 15-20 games more than anybody thought they had a right to with this roster. Credit Thibs all you want, I do too, but somebody on the floor needs to get the job done and Noah is doing that.

[Andy]

Is there an argument to be made for anyone outside of Thibs to win coach of the year?

Hornacek should win it. The Suns' organization was basically trying to tank the season and Hornacek's got them in potential playoff position in the much better West. Thibs will be in the top 3 though.

[Flames24Rulz]

With as well as Memphis has played recently, I think the Suns are going to be the team in the West that's sitting at home come playoff time. Would you really give the COY award to a team that didn't even make the playoffs? That's not going to happen.

 

Thibs or Casey should win the COY. I understand that the East is dreadful but the Bulls lost their best player and then traded their third best player, while getting nothing in return. GarPax didn't say it in black and white, but they basically admitted they were tanking. The Raptors have went from a laughingstock to a top 4 team in the conference. Again, I understand that the East is worse than incest but I'd have to think you need to make the playoffs to win the COY.

[Banedon]

This is the poll on ESPN Chicago right now...

 

http://i.imgur.com/APH1HSj.png

[Guest]

My point was that ruling a guy out on the basis of PER doesn't work because PER doesn't always work. And I'm not arguing that Noah should be considered for MVP. But ruling him out as somebody who couldn't get a few 3rd place votes and finish in the middle of the top 10 simply because is not a scorer is not fair. The fact that he, as we discussed, is putting up historically high assist numbers for a big, leads the break with his handles and has developed a fair scoring game makes him a valuable offensive player. That combined with his elite defense and rebounding makes him as attractive an MVP candidate as Tony Parker ever was. It's arguable that Tony Parker has ever been top 5 at his position and you could argue that Noah is currently the best 5 in the NBA.

 

Parker was a candidate because his team wins so many games and the voters feel the need to credit a player. I think te same is true for Noah. He is clearly the best player on a team that is gonna win 15-20 games more than anybody thought they had a right to with this roster. Credit Thibs all you want, I do too, but somebody on the floor needs to get the job done and Noah is doing that.

 

Don't think anybody is saying he can't or won't get a few votes, but that he shouldn't.

[Banedon]

NBA.com has him 7th.

 

http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/

[Ryne Ween]

My point was that ruling a guy out on the basis of PER doesn't work because PER doesn't always work. And I'm not arguing that Noah should be considered for MVP. But ruling him out as somebody who couldn't get a few 3rd place votes and finish in the middle of the top 10 simply because is not a scorer is not fair. The fact that he, as we discussed, is putting up historically high assist numbers for a big, leads the break with his handles and has developed a fair scoring game makes him a valuable offensive player. That combined with his elite defense and rebounding makes him as attractive an MVP candidate as Tony Parker ever was. It's arguable that Tony Parker has ever been top 5 at his position and you could argue that Noah is currently the best 5 in the NBA.

 

Parker was a candidate because his team wins so many games and the voters feel the need to credit a player. I think te same is true for Noah. He is clearly the best player on a team that is gonna win 15-20 games more than anybody thought they had a right to with this roster. Credit Thibs all you want, I do too, but somebody on the floor needs to get the job done and Noah is doing that.

 

Don't think anybody is saying he can't or won't get a few votes, but that he shouldn't.

 

 

Only two guys should be getting votes for MVP. But the voters have to vote or 5. I think there is a solid argument or him to get 5th place votes.