The 2012 Offseason Thread

[Hairyducked Idiot]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I guess, but that's expecting the Diamondbacks to put an awful lot of faith in defensive metrics.

[jersey cubs fan]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I don't think everybody else is as obsessed with rating time under control as some sort of skill to compare players as people on this board. There's a clearly better player in that comparison.

[Cubswin11]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I guess, but that's expecting the Diamondbacks to put an awful lot of faith in defensive metrics.

We could also let them hold onto Skaggs and get rid of Bauer, with whom they seem determined to trade off.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Keppinger to the White Sox, apparently?

[Guest]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I don't think everybody else is as obsessed with rating time under control as some sort of skill to compare players as people on this board. There's a clearly better player in that comparison.

 

Do you think time of team control (and - hand in hand - salary) isn't a huge factor in how teams value players?

[Guest]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I don't think everybody else is as obsessed with rating time under control as some sort of skill to compare players as people on this board. There's a clearly better player in that comparison.

 

Team control as a value isn't really a debatable point. If it's enough to bridge the gap, that depends on how you value Barney and Cabrera. If you think Barney's a league average player and you see Cabrera as a 4 win beast, then maybe not. But if you feel Barney is a near 3-win SS and Cabrera only a half step better(3.5 WAR last 2 years, 2.7 WAR last 4), then it's not difficult to see why you'd want a guy for 4 years rather than 2. Especially if it means you keep your preferred pitching prospect in Skaggs instead of Bauer.

[jersey cubs fan]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I don't think everybody else is as obsessed with rating time under control as some sort of skill to compare players as people on this board. There's a clearly better player in that comparison.

 

Do you think time of team control (and - hand in hand - salary) isn't a huge factor in how teams value players?

 

Not as huge as the actual difference between the players skill. Which was the point.

[Guest]

Keppinger to the White Sox, apparently?

 

That is something the White Sox would do.

[Guest]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I don't think everybody else is as obsessed with rating time under control as some sort of skill to compare players as people on this board. There's a clearly better player in that comparison.

 

Do you think time of team control (and - hand in hand - salary) isn't a huge factor in how teams value players?

 

Not as huge as the actual difference between the players skill. Which was the point.

 

That entirely depends on the players in question and how you value them. Team control is a huge factor.

 

I would doubt that it's any more highly valued on this board than it is by the people whose job it is to make these decisions... at least, the smarter ones.

Edited December 5, 2012 by David

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The value of team control is directly related to fungibility.

[imb]

Yeah, you can have 4 years of this sub .700 OPS second baseman who you can maybe make into a ss for your top 10 in all of baseball pitching prospect or i guess you can have just a measly two years of a same-aged actual SS who posted an 800 ops as a 23-year old and once hit 25 home runs in a season.

[Guest]

Yeah, you can have 4 years of this sub .700 OPS second baseman who you can maybe make into a ss for your top 10 in all of baseball pitching prospect or i guess you can have just a measly two years of a same-aged actual SS who posted an 800 ops as a 23-year old and once hit 25 home runs in a season.

 

Well it's a good thing fielding doesn't matter at all, because then they look much further apart than they actually are (which is not to say that Cabrera isn't a clearly better player).

Edited December 5, 2012 by David

[SouthSideRyan]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I guess, but that's expecting the Diamondbacks to put an awful lot of faith in defensive metrics.

 

Do they put any faith in defense period?

[SouthSideRyan]

Yeah, you can have 4 years of this sub .700 OPS second baseman who you can maybe make into a ss for your top 10 in all of baseball pitching prospect or i guess you can have just a measly two years of a same-aged actual SS who posted an 800 ops as a 23-year old and once hit 25 home runs in a season.

 

Well it's a good thing fielding doesn't matter at all, because then they look much further apart than they actually are.

 

Barney's transition to SS isn't a slam dunk

[sneakypower]

@JeffPassan Indians pushing Diamondbacks to include Tyler Skaggs in deal for Asdrubal Cabrera. D-backs would prefer to trade Trevor Bauer

 

The gap between Cabrera and Barney isn't that much when you have the former for 2 years and the latter for 4...

 

I don't think everybody else is as obsessed with rating time under control as some sort of skill to compare players as people on this board. There's a clearly better player in that comparison.

great, then we can just trade Garza (the better pitcher) for Bauer

[Guest]

Yeah, you can have 4 years of this sub .700 OPS second baseman who you can maybe make into a ss for your top 10 in all of baseball pitching prospect or i guess you can have just a measly two years of a same-aged actual SS who posted an 800 ops as a 23-year old and once hit 25 home runs in a season.

 

Well it's a good thing fielding doesn't matter at all, because then they look much further apart than they actually are.

 

Barney's transition to SS isn't a slam dunk

 

That's fair. Just pointing out that it's not exactly intellectually honest to compare them as offensive players only, especially when Cabrera is a pretty shitty fielder.

[imb]

Yeah, you can have 4 years of this sub .700 OPS second baseman who you can maybe make into a ss for your top 10 in all of baseball pitching prospect or i guess you can have just a measly two years of a same-aged actual SS who posted an 800 ops as a 23-year old and once hit 25 home runs in a season.

 

Well it's a good thing fielding doesn't matter at all, because then they look much further apart than they actually are (which is not to say that Cabrera isn't a clearly better player).

 

barney's mega-shift induced defensive metrics at second base mean just about 0 to me when we're talking about him being a shortstop

[Guest]

Yeah, you can have 4 years of this sub .700 OPS second baseman who you can maybe make into a ss for your top 10 in all of baseball pitching prospect or i guess you can have just a measly two years of a same-aged actual SS who posted an 800 ops as a 23-year old and once hit 25 home runs in a season.

 

Well it's a good thing fielding doesn't matter at all, because then they look much further apart than they actually are (which is not to say that Cabrera isn't a clearly better player).

 

barney's mega-shift induced defensive metrics at second base mean just about 0 to me when we're talking about him being a shortstop

 

Doesn't UZR not grade plays using the shift?

[Guest]

Yeah, you can have 4 years of this sub .700 OPS second baseman who you can maybe make into a ss for your top 10 in all of baseball pitching prospect or i guess you can have just a measly two years of a same-aged actual SS who posted an 800 ops as a 23-year old and once hit 25 home runs in a season.

 

Well it's a good thing fielding doesn't matter at all, because then they look much further apart than they actually are (which is not to say that Cabrera isn't a clearly better player).

 

barney's mega-shift induced defensive metrics at second base mean just about 0 to me when we're talking about him being a shortstop

 

Barney's UZR range rating went from 8.0 in 2011(1110 innings) to 8.2 in 2012(1270 innings).

[imb]

*walks out of door backwards*

[javy knows my name]

According to the Trib, the White Sox have agreed to a 3 year deal w/ Keppinger worth 12M TOTAL. That's a damn good deal, if accurate.

 

Wasn't it being reported that he was asking 12 per?

[Guest]

According to the Trib, the White Sox have agreed to a 3 year deal w/ Keppinger worth 12M TOTAL. That's a damn good deal, if accurate.

 

Wasn't it being reported that he was asking 12 per?

 

No, 3/12 total was the rumor of what he wanted. I think with as much buzz as he was getting some thought he might exceed that though.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

According to the Trib, the White Sox have agreed to a 3 year deal w/ Keppinger worth 12M TOTAL. That's a damn good deal, if accurate.

 

Wasn't it being reported that he was asking 12 per?

 

Doesn't that seem unlikely to you?

[Banedon]

According to the Trib, the White Sox have agreed to a 3 year deal w/ Keppinger worth 12M TOTAL. That's a damn good deal, if accurate.

 

Wasn't it being reported that he was asking 12 per?

 

From yesterday:

 

According to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com, Keppinger is looking for a three-year contract worth close to $12 million.

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/04/jeff-keppinger-wants-a-three-year-12-million-contract/

[jersey cubs fan]

According to the Trib, the White Sox have agreed to a 3 year deal w/ Keppinger worth 12M TOTAL. That's a damn good deal, if accurate.

 

Wasn't it being reported that he was asking 12 per?

 

Jeff Keppinger was asking for 12m/year? I have not been paying attention but that seems incredibly unlikely.