The 2012 Offseason Thread

[FloridaCubbie]

It's really more like the late 90s/early to mid 2000's, isn't it?

I think it started earlier than that, but it seems about right. Is there an official range for the steroid era?

 

I'd guess Late '80s w/ Conseco and McGwire were its earliest stars.

 

the beginning of the steroid era is whenever hank aaron started snorting deer semen or w/e so he could break the hr record

Same time Dusty Baker invented the high five?

[Sammy Sofa]

Probably the late 60's onwards.

[bhogg]

When I think about the beginning of the steroid era, I think about 1996. Ken caminiti and Brady Anderson.

[Sammy Sofa]

I really find it hard to believe that people can honestly tell themselves that PEDs in MLB didn't take off until the 90's.

[FloridaCubbie]

I really find it hard to believe that people can honestly tell themselves that PEDs in MLB didn't take off until the 90's.

I, too, find it difficult to believe things almost no one believes.

[Sammy Sofa]

Really? You've got comments on this very page talking about how the "Steroid Era" started in the 90's, and it's hardly a unique train of thought. And often when you get people pushing the era back they tend to stop once they hit the late 80's.

[FloridaCubbie]

Really? You've got comments on this very page talking about how the "Steroid Era" started in the 90's, and it's hardly a unique train of thought. And often when you get people pushing the era back they tend to stop once they hit the late 80's.

'Roids and Greenies are very different, but I mostly wanted to make you mad 'cause it's easy to do.

[Sammy Sofa]

"PEDs" obviously don't only encompass juiced steroid monsters and speed.

 

Why would anyone be getting mad over this?

[FloridaCubbie]

"PEDs" obviously don't only encompass juiced steroid monsters and speed.

 

 

ok

Edited April 3, 2013 by FloridaCubbie

[Rob]

This isn't technically the offseason anymore, but I don't know that it warrants its own thread. Apparently the Cubs signed Ryan Sweeney to a minor league deal. Nifty little deal. He's a good defender and has just enough bat. Averages almost exactly 2 WAR per 550 PA for his career (though you can probably bring that down thanks to one UZR outlier).

 

This is what I like about Theo and Jed. They trade Campana for potentially useful pieces and then replace him with a better player for no cost. It's not going to make or break the organization, but it's nice to have people at the helm who have a clue.

[davell]

This isn't technically the offseason anymore, but I don't know that it warrants its own thread. Apparently the Cubs signed Ryan Sweeney to a minor league deal. Nifty little deal. He's a good defender and has just enough bat. Averages almost exactly 2 WAR per 550 PA for his career (though you can probably bring that down thanks to one UZR outlier).

 

This is what I like about Theo and Jed. They trade Campana for potentially useful pieces and then replace him with a better player for no cost. It's not going to make or break the organization, but it's nice to have people at the helm who have a clue.

Yeah, no kidding. Its on here somewhere. At any rate, when DeJesus and Soriano get dealt, Sweeney will get some major league time. Hell, Bogusevic might as well, especially if those two are gone and we have an injury.

[Guest]

It's really more like the late 90s/early to mid 2000's, isn't it?

I think it started earlier than that, but it seems about right. Is there an official range for the steroid era?

 

I'd guess Late '80s w/ Conseco and McGwire were its earliest stars.

 

For the record, I was making no reference to steroids or a steroid era, but to when offensive numbers were outrageous.

 

Not the same thing.

 

And I could be off about it...just going off of memories from when I was pretty young.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This isn't technically the offseason anymore, but I don't know that it warrants its own thread. Apparently the Cubs signed Ryan Sweeney to a minor league deal. Nifty little deal. He's a good defender and has just enough bat. Averages almost exactly 2 WAR per 550 PA for his career (though you can probably bring that down thanks to one UZR outlier).

 

This is what I like about Theo and Jed. They trade Campana for potentially useful pieces and then replace him with a better player for no cost. It's not going to make or break the organization, but it's nice to have people at the helm who have a clue.

 

I'd like it more if they were consistent about it.

 

We get triple-redundancy on fourth outfielders, but we don't have enough useful infielders to fill an infield, let alone backups.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It's really more like the late 90s/early to mid 2000's, isn't it?

I think it started earlier than that, but it seems about right. Is there an official range for the steroid era?

 

I'd guess Late '80s w/ Conseco and McGwire were its earliest stars.

 

the beginning of the steroid era is whenever hank aaron started snorting deer semen or w/e so he could break the hr record

 

There have been various types of PEDs since te Olympic Games in Ancient Greece, and steroids since the 30s-40s. There are records of the Nazis using anabolic steroids to increase the strength and agression of their "super soldiers." My point is, who knows which of the heroes of the days of yore. Roger Maris for one strikes me as a guy who could very well have been on some brand of juice. His monster 1961 season in no way reflects the bulk of his career which included 2 other 30+ HR seasons which sandwiched '61.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's really more like the late 90s/early to mid 2000's, isn't it?

I think it started earlier than that, but it seems about right. Is there an official range for the steroid era?

 

I'd guess Late '80s w/ Conseco and McGwire were its earliest stars.

 

the beginning of the steroid era is whenever hank aaron started snorting deer semen or w/e so he could break the hr record

 

There have been various types of PEDs since te Olympic Games in Ancient Greece, and steroids since the 30s-40s. There are records of the Nazis using anabolic steroids to increase the strength and agression of their "super soldiers." My point is, who knows which of the heroes of the days of yore. Roger Maris for one strikes me as a guy who could very well have been on some brand of juice. His monster 1961 season in no way reflects the bulk of his career which included 2 other 30+ HR seasons which sandwiched '61.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRQZEs14Ejs

[Cubswin11]

Jered Weaver went on the DL today, seeing as the Angels are trying to "win now" and have little SP depth and Pujols/Hamilton exiting their primes I wonder if they might have some interest in Wood. Again, too bad Garza is hurt as he might be a fit to go there. I know their system isn't rated high, but do they have anyone people like here?

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Jered Weaver went on the DL today, seeing as the Angels are trying to "win now" and have little SP depth and Pujols/Hamilton exiting their primes I wonder if they might have some interest in Wood. Again, too bad Garza is hurt as he might be a fit to go there. I know their system isn't rated high, but do they have anyone people like here?

 

Their system isn't just not rated high, it's the worst in baseball. BA and BP ranked them dead last.

 

The only guy you really would want is Kaleb Cowart.

[davell]

They have Garrett Richards, they won't be looking for a SP right now.

[Guest]

Interesting point from Rosenthal that I hadn't given a lot of thought to: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/arte-moreno-decisions-leave-los-angeles-angels-with-questions-jered-weaver-albert-pujols-041513

 

QUALIFYING OFFER IN GARZA’S FUTURE?

 

Cubs right-hander Matt Garza is making steady progress in his recovery from a strained left lat, and should be back sometime in May. After that, he could become the hottest starting pitcher on the trade market – provided, of course, that he stays healthy.

 

At that point, the Cubs would face the same type of decision with Garza that all clubs do with potential free agents. They could trade Garza for the right proposal. Or they could keep him, make him a qualifying offer and secure a high draft pick if he signs with another club.

 

The Cubs obviously would balance one return against the other, and it’s not out of the question that Garza could accept a qualifying offer, depending upon how he performs.

 

Let’s say that Garza pitches decently but not great. The Cubs probably wouldn’t hesitate to make him a qualifying offer, and his recent injury history might make teams reluctant to give up a top pick. Then again, the shortage of quality starting pitchers on the open market would work in Garza’s favor, and he doesn’t turn 30 until Nov. 26.

 

The odds of a team paying Garza and giving up a 1st rounder with his recent injury history wouldn't be that great unless he has a really strong 2013. At this point I wonder if the organization is planning on wielding that like a de facto option year, especially now that Lohse and Bourn have demonstrated how damaging it is for a player's market.

[jersey cubs fan]

Interesting point from Rosenthal that I hadn't given a lot of thought to: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/arte-moreno-decisions-leave-los-angeles-angels-with-questions-jered-weaver-albert-pujols-041513

 

 

 

The odds of a team paying Garza and giving up a 1st rounder with his recent injury history wouldn't be that great unless he has a really strong 2013. At this point I wonder if the organization is planning on wielding that like a de facto option year, especially now that Lohse and Bourn have demonstrated how damaging it is for a player's market.

 

I was actually thinking that very thing yesterday. They could use it as leverage when negotiating a potential extension, but I doubt they want to give him one at all. So they might as well just make the offer and hold onto him for another year.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The odds of a team paying Garza and giving up a 1st rounder with his recent injury history wouldn't be that great unless he has a really strong 2013. At this point I wonder if the organization is planning on wielding that like a de facto option year, especially now that Lohse and Bourn have demonstrated how damaging it is for a player's market.

 

Both of those guys ended up getting fairly lucrative long-term deals. Better deals than the qualifying offer, at the very least. I'd have to assume Garza would think he can do better as well, even if not as good as it would be without the compensation.

[Guest]

The odds of a team paying Garza and giving up a 1st rounder with his recent injury history wouldn't be that great unless he has a really strong 2013. At this point I wonder if the organization is planning on wielding that like a de facto option year, especially now that Lohse and Bourn have demonstrated how damaging it is for a player's market.

 

Both of those guys ended up getting fairly lucrative long-term deals. Better deals than the qualifying offer, at the very least. I'd have to assume Garza would think he can do better as well, even if not as good as it would be without the compensation.

 

They ended up with pretty lucrative deals, but they were also coming from a higher baseline of what teams would be willing to give them because of their recent success and lack of injury history. Garza has neither in his favor, so the damage to his value by attaching the qualifying offer may bring him far closer to the value of the qualifying offer itself than Bourn or Lohse.

[davell]

I figure our baseline in dealing Garza at this point is the value of a comp pick. Thats break even basically and we won't break even, we'd just hold on to him instead. His value is less than it was obviously, but if we trade him, I still think we'll get something like Olt and Luke Jackson for him, as an example. One top 100 prospect, plus another guy that fits inside an organizations top 10. At this point, I'm fine if we get that sort of return or if we hold on to him. A top 3 of Shark, Garza, and E-Jax isn't bad. Especially with Appel or Gray coming in soon and the possibikity hopefully of trading for Price. Which would give us a top 5 type rotation.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Just as a quick look at the 2014 Free Agent list, I don't think I'm loving it. This past offseason, Theo and Co. showed that they are willing to spend money on the right guys, but is the right guy out there?

 

Short answer, yes; He is Second Baseman Robinson Cano. At the age of 31, he's likely to get an insane contract; one which will likely be worth it, at least for the first 5 years of it. This being said, I don't think that anyone out there expects any team other than the Yankees to give it to him.

 

A few tempting Center Fielders, depedning on how they feel about Jackson and/or Szczur by the end of this season

CF: Jacoby Ellsbury; 2013 will be a huge year for him as far as contract goes. If he can have a bounceback, I'm sure Theo would love to reunite with him.

CF Curtis Granderson; Grandy would be a nice pickup, and could move to a corner spot once Almora is ready to take over. However, if he does bounce back from injury, the Yankees will do their best to keep him or jack up the price trying. Still, he's 33 and 5 years should be the max on him.

 

Corner OF:

-Hunter Pence: 31. Could be extended. If not, I'd be very interested.

-Corey Hart and Mike Morse, each will be 32.

Either one's price is likely to hinge on and Hunter Pence and could be viable replacements for Soriano at the right price. Morse is supposedly very bad at defense. Hart isn't great, but can also fill in at 1B from time to time.

 

IF: Chase Utley; 35 and injury prone.

 

As for pitchers, realistically, there's:

 

Matt Garza; I don't see him taking a discount, and he could be risky as his likely steep asking price

Jason Hammell is another quality not ace but still front end type starter.

 

The there's some really big names, each flawed;

 

-Josh Johnson tops the list, but will be very expesnive despite the injury risk. Not sure if it's one that Theo would be willing to take

-Roy Halladay; 37 and seemingly on the decline. Will still be expensive

-Johan Santana has a 25MM team option with a 5.5MM buyout, and the Mets are likely to use the latter. Seeing as he's going to miss the season, he's likely going to take an incentive based deal, but how much?

-Chris Carpenter; old. injured. old. injured.

-Tim Lincecum isn't showing any signs that he'll bounce back, and could perhaps take a self gsmble 1 year deal.

 

If Theo were to back into Red Sox mode for one reason or another, I could see any combination of these guys scooped up.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

I could see the Cubs retaining Garza if he comes back mid May and has a decent year but not great. I do believe they will go big after a pitcher or bat in trade and potentially be involved in a free agent bat. Potential trade targets could be Price, Bud Norris, Stanton, Headley, the Rockies could potentially entertain trading Cargo as well. Hart short term, Ellsbury and potentially Cano could be targets.

 

I think 2015 is still the ideal division winning year but with the Wrigley field deal looking close, the potential TV deal in the near future, I think the Cubs are setting up to strike this off-season. I also think they need to.

 

I could totally dig a rotation of Price, Shark, Garza, EJax, Wood/Villanueva next year.