Good job theo

[XZero771679666304]

The Cespedes thing gnaws at my soul.

 

Especially in hindsight. The miss annoyed me a bit at the time, but seeing how his first year has gone makes it much worse.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ugh, I just looked at his stats and wanted to fight the world.

[Guest]

It's no less absurd than "They did pretty much everything right, just virtually all of their gambles turned out bad," which is also frequently pushed.

 

They made the decision to do everything with the view that the 2012 season was worthless. The result was predictable and therefore intentional. Heck, even a guy like Maholm looks to me like he was acquired with the intent to flip.

 

yea, turning a few million bucks into the organization's top pitching prospect (in a span of months) was definitely one of his bigger failures

[Guest]

The Cespedes thing gnaws at my soul.

 

didn't you want pujols too?

[USSoccer]

You guys remember the time I was all like "I know I'm not necessarily being objective but we should absolutely bring Aramis back b/c he's been the best 3B in the history of the team and he's awesome and great and such" and Kyle and that other whatshisname who hates everything and everyone-oh yeah, davearm-were all like "noooo, financial flexibility! Bad contract!"

 

Yeah.

[Guest]

2012 was never the primary concern with Ramirez, although if you had told me that he would have the best offensive season of his career and his defense would improve 17(!) runs year over year, all at age 34, that would certainly have changed the value proposition.

[Exile on Waveland]

Ugh, I just looked at his stats and wanted to fight the world.

 

Same here. It's indefensible.

[Exile on Waveland]

But make no mistake, this would still have been an awful team regardless.

 

Sure. Hey, I wondered why so many on here got in a huff when it was suggested this team could lose 100 games. This was, and is, a bad team. However, add Cespedes and Darvish/Jackson and it's not terribly difficult to envision a pretty decent team next year:

 

C - Castillo

1B - Rizzo

2B - Barney

3B - ?

SS - Castro

LF - Soriano

CF - (Upton)

RF - Cespedes

 

1 - Garza (?)

2 - Jackson/Darvish

3 - Samardzija

4 - (FA)

5 - Wood

 

With the second wild card, I think that team could quite realistically contend (and I don't think much precious payroll flexibility would be lost). Especially if they win the bullpen lottery (copyrighted -- TT, I think?). The decision to spend no money last offseason is likely to cost the Cubs a chance to compete in 2013, even if it didn't cost them a chance to compete in 2012.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Cespedes thing gnaws at my soul.

 

didn't you want pujols too?

 

Of course. I could have wanted Ugmar the Mountain Troll and it wouldn't negate the sucking of letting Cespedes get away. Having Cespdes changes things drastically for 2013; yeah, 2012 wouldn't have been much better, but going forward with Castro/Rizzo/Castillo/Cespedes/Barney/DeJesus/Reborn Soriano would have made the planning in this offseason much less depressing. Go sign Upton, figure out how to Band-Aid 3B for the time being and hey, you've got yourself a respectable lineup for 2013.

 

*Sigh*

[SouthSideRyan]

2012 was never the primary concern with Ramirez, although if you had told me that he would have the best offensive season of his career and his defense would improve 17(!) runs year over year, all at age 34, that would certainly have changed the value proposition.

 

For how cheaply Ramirez came, I have a hard time seeing an issue with that contract even without hindsight

[Guest]

2012 was never the primary concern with Ramirez, although if you had told me that he would have the best offensive season of his career and his defense would improve 17(!) runs year over year, all at age 34, that would certainly have changed the value proposition.

 

For how cheaply Ramirez came, I have a hard time seeing an issue with that contract even without hindsight

 

It wouldn't have been egregious, but I don't see a whole lot of benefit either. As a comparison, Soriano has 2/36 left on his deal, just had a big bounceback year (4.3 fWAR), and most people are apathetic at best to his presence on future rosters. Even with the bounceback, you're paying pretty big money to a guy who you can't really expect star performance from, and hasn't been consistent enough(in performance or health) to bank on less than star performance either. The same applies to Ramirez. He has 2/30 left on his deal, just had a big bounceback year, but I'm hesitant to think he's capable of star performance going forward, and he's not so far removed from putting up a combined 2.7 WAR across two injury plagued seasons.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Do we know just what our final offer was to Cespedes? I believe that in the end, it was down to The Cubs, Yankees, and Marlins, with the White Sox on the fringe. They probably had a good idea of what each was offering and down to the final haggling. Billy was probably following the entire time, and at the last minute, jumped in with an offer significantly higher than the others.

 

There was talk at one point that it was because he preferred Oakland's small market atmosphere without the pressure of a team like the Yankees or Cubs, but does this look like a guy who's shy away from the spotlight?

 

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_seasonticket/files/2012/02/cespedes1.jpg

[Guest]

My memory is that the dollars were similar/same, but the years were the contention. Oakland offered 4/30 with free agency after the 4 years. We were either offering 6/30 or 4/30 + 2 arbitration years, I don't remember which.

[jersey cubs fan]

It wouldn't have been egregious, but I don't see a whole lot of benefit either. As a comparison, Soriano has 2/36 left on his deal, just had a big bounceback year (4.3 fWAR), and most people are apathetic at best to his presence on future rosters.

 

Because people hated Soriano from day one. That's not justification for not having the guy on the team.

[Cubbie Swagger]

I can't believe this thread exists. If anyone went into this season expecting anything other than a supremely shitty season, then the joke is on you.

 

I will gladly sit through another 2-3 years of sucking before I even start to get concerned about how many games we win. I mean, I've been watching shitty Cubs teams for decades now. The least I can do is let Theo and Ricketts take their shot. I do trust them. To be honest, if Theo and Ricketts don't succeed in turning the franchise around... I think I will give up hope that it will ever happen. And I mean... ever.

[Little Slide Rooter]

But make no mistake, this would still have been an awful team regardless.

 

Sure. Hey, I wondered why so many on here got in a huff when it was suggested this team could lose 100 games. This was, and is, a bad team. However, add Cespedes and Darvish/Jackson and it's not terribly difficult to envision a pretty decent team next year:

 

I think that we need to drop the myth that this was a team doomed to 100 Ls from the get go. While they never looked like a contender, it was the post trade dealine 20-42 run that made them a 100 loss team. Dempster and Garza were gone. Samardzjia was gone a month later. The rotation now consisted of 1 solid back end guy in Wood as the best starter, Volstad, for whom there was no benefit in not letting finish the season, and a revolving door of waiver claims and fringe prospects. Without that, this would not have been a 100 L team.

 

In the early goings, we had great starting pitching, awul bullpen production, and minimal offensive production from everyone but Castro and LaHair, including Byrd for whom their was no indication would be quite that awful, and Soto and Stewart, for whom their was some indication could be that awful but hope that they'd be a lot better. Had we finished the season with the team we opened the season with, I'd say we'd have ended up somewhere between 77-85 and 72-90

[davell]

Is it 5 mill per WAR on the FA market still? Soriano has been worth 20 WAR so far as a Cub.

[SouthSideRyan]

2012 was never the primary concern with Ramirez, although if you had told me that he would have the best offensive season of his career and his defense would improve 17(!) runs year over year, all at age 34, that would certainly have changed the value proposition.

 

For how cheaply Ramirez came, I have a hard time seeing an issue with that contract even without hindsight

 

It wouldn't have been egregious, but I don't see a whole lot of benefit either. As a comparison, Soriano has 2/36 left on his deal, just had a big bounceback year (4.3 fWAR), and most people are apathetic at best to his presence on future rosters. Even with the bounceback, you're paying pretty big money to a guy who you can't really expect star performance from, and hasn't been consistent enough(in performance or health) to bank on less than star performance either. The same applies to Ramirez. He has 2/30 left on his deal, just had a big bounceback year, but I'm hesitant to think he's capable of star performance going forward, and he's not so far removed from putting up a combined 2.7 WAR across two injury plagued seasons.

 

Why would we only pay him 6M this season?

[jersey cubs fan]

I can't believe this thread exists. If anyone went into this season expecting anything other than a supremely [expletive] season, then the joke is on you.

 

Nobody is talking about going into the season expecting more, because we saw what Theo and Jed did and that was set up a horrible team. Stupid point number 1.

 

I will gladly sit through another 2-3 years of sucking before I even start to get concerned about how many games we win.

 

And stupid point number 2. That's just dumb fandom right there. You'd gladly sit through 3 more years of sucking? That's absurd.

[SouthSideRyan]

I will gladly sit through another 2-3 years of sucking before I even start to get concerned about how many games we win.

 

And stupid point number 2. That's just dumb fandom right there. You'd gladly sit through 3 more years of sucking? That's absurd.

 

Show me a team in the playoffs who didn't have to suffer through 4 100 loss seasons before becoming good.

[Guest]

2012 was never the primary concern with Ramirez, although if you had told me that he would have the best offensive season of his career and his defense would improve 17(!) runs year over year, all at age 34, that would certainly have changed the value proposition.

 

For how cheaply Ramirez came, I have a hard time seeing an issue with that contract even without hindsight

 

It wouldn't have been egregious, but I don't see a whole lot of benefit either. As a comparison, Soriano has 2/36 left on his deal, just had a big bounceback year (4.3 fWAR), and most people are apathetic at best to his presence on future rosters. Even with the bounceback, you're paying pretty big money to a guy who you can't really expect star performance from, and hasn't been consistent enough(in performance or health) to bank on less than star performance either. The same applies to Ramirez. He has 2/30 left on his deal, just had a big bounceback year, but I'm hesitant to think he's capable of star performance going forward, and he's not so far removed from putting up a combined 2.7 WAR across two injury plagued seasons.

 

Why would we only pay him 6M this season?

 

Because that's what his contract is? I mean, we could go down the road of using AAVs and haggle over accounting practices, but this seems simpler and is commonly used. Plus, if we're going to be talking about banking budgeted v. paid out monies, then that introduces another variable into how you evaluate the spending/non-spending decisions of the offseason.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's no less absurd than "They did pretty much everything right, just virtually all of their gambles turned out bad," which is also frequently pushed.

 

They made the decision to do everything with the view that the 2012 season was worthless. The result was predictable and therefore intentional. Heck, even a guy like Maholm looks to me like he was acquired with the intent to flip.

 

yea, turning a few million bucks into the organization's top pitching prospect (in a span of months) was definitely one of his bigger failures

 

It was a fantastic success. But it's only point was to acquire a prospect for him. The fact that he occasionally helped the 2012 Cubs win was incidental.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why is Fat Hoss here talking like cracked a code Nicholas Cage-style or some [expletive].

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You guys remember the time I was all like "I know I'm not necessarily being objective but we should absolutely bring Aramis back b/c he's been the best 3B in the history of the team and he's awesome and great and such" and Kyle and that other whatshisname who hates everything and everyone-oh yeah, davearm-were all like "noooo, financial flexibility! Bad contract!"

 

Yeah.

 

 

Going into the offseason, I thought we could have spent the money better elsewhere. But I'd known we were just going to hand 3b to Ian Stewart, pocket the savings, and Ramirez was going to get a fairly low deal, I would have been all over him.

[davell]

Theo said yesterday he sees FA as the least valuable way to improve the team. My guess all along has been the bulk of big moves we make winds up being thru trades. I wish like hell we had gotten Cespedes. At this point, I wish we had gotten Puig. I'm still not going to be sold on Darvish until he does it a 2nd season though.