Joe Mather Batting Third

[Andy]

OK thanks to baseball reference, selected 3 hitters since 2003:

 

DeWitt (8)

Fontenot (3)

Montanez

Fox

Ward

Cedeno

O'Leary

Ward doesn't belong on this list.

 

Yes he does.

Ward was an absolute monster in 2007 (when I assume this happened). No he doesn't.

 

All those other names are worse than Mather hitting 3rd excepting maybe Fontenot.

[apete6]

The great Trinidad Hubbard once batted 3rd for the Cubs.

 

If true, that is probably worse. That guy was worthless.

[UMFan83]

OK thanks to baseball reference, selected 3 hitters since 2003:

 

DeWitt (8)

Fontenot (3)

Montanez

Fox

Ward

Cedeno

O'Leary

Ward doesn't belong on this list.

 

Yes he does.

Ward was an absolute monster in 2007 (when I assume this happened). No he doesn't.

 

All those other names are worse than Mather hitting 3rd excepting maybe Fontenot.

Nope it was actually 2008

[Careless]

The great Trinidad Hubbard once batted 3rd for the Cubs.

 

If true, that is probably worse. That guy was worthless.

As a player, basically, but as a hitter, he wasn't all that bad. He wasn't good, but he hit like a lousy outfielder, not a lousy middle infielder.

[Little Slide Rooter]

OK thanks to baseball reference, selected 3 hitters since 2003:

 

DeWitt (8)

Fontenot (3)

Montanez

Fox

Ward

Cedeno

O'Leary

Ward doesn't belong on this list.

 

Yes he does.

Ward was an absolute monster in 2007 (when I assume this happened). No he doesn't.

 

All those other names are worse than Mather hitting 3rd excepting maybe Fontenot.

 

Ward was a monster as a part time player in 2007, as was Fontenot in '08. I'm pretty sure that every team has at some point had that guy who puts up those kind of numbers as a part timer and the fans clamor to make them a full time guy. What matters is that the managers and GMs know better. Joe Mather has been that guy lately. In Sveum's defense, he doesn't exactly have a lot of options.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is Dale passive aggressively pointing the finger at his bosses with some of this stuff? He talks up the Rizzo promotion idea, starts batting Mather third and keeps running through closing options, all because he really has no other options. He's got to be frustrated with how this season is playing out. If they do end up with a historically bad record, very few managers survive those types of seasons. It would be completely unfair for him to lose his job over this, but even if he feels he's got full support of management, he can't be comfortable dealing with the constant "what was the reason for today's loss" type of questioning.

[Backtobanks]

It certainly doesn't seem to bother Theo & Co. that the Cubs are headed for a historically bad season. When it's all said and done, managers and front office staff are judged by their record. With the Cubs headed for 100 losses this season, even a 15 game improvement (not likely) for next year puts them at 85 losses. It's going to take quite a few great seasons to balance out these 2 years.

[Soul]

It's going to take quite a few great seasons to balance out these 2 years.

 

It would take exactly one season to balance it out.

[Sammy Sofa]

Baseball doesn't work like that.

[SouthSideRyan]

It certainly doesn't seem to bother Theo & Co. that the Cubs are headed for a historically bad season. When it's all said and done, managers and front office staff are judged by their record. With the Cubs headed for 100 losses this season, even a 15 game improvement (not likely) for next year puts them at 85 losses. It's going to take quite a few great seasons to balance out these 2 years.

 

This never would've happened if Jim Hendry were still in charge.

[davell]

I guess the question is whether B2B would rather suck for a year, have plenty of money fall off the books, amp the farm system up tremendously and have the opportunity to make whatever moves they want to over the next few seasons. Or max out the payroll, put an averagish team out there that's getting older, but has a CHANCE to make the playoffs, albeit as a team that sneaks in, doesn't have room to make deals, and is probably never going to have a chance to dominate. And until he says EXACTLY how he'd make the 2012 Cubs into a perennial contender immediately, I'll go ahead and figure he's definitely taking the 2nd scenario. We just didn't miss out on much this past offseason, once things have shaken out.

[Soul]

Baseball doesn't work like that.

 

I forgive bad things when really good things happen after. One WS and I can't see being too upset with a 100 loss season followed by another .500 or so season.

[Backtobanks]

It's going to take quite a few great seasons to balance out these 2 years.

 

It would take exactly one season to balance it out.

 

Yeah if they went 104-58 in 2014 it would bring them back to .500. Of course that's assuming they only lose 100 this year and they improve by 15 games next year.

[Guest]

Yep, ONLY 100.

[SouthSideRyan]

Yep, ONLY 100.

 

Considering this current 1-12 pace puts them at 25-137, I don't quite understand why we're being so generous.

[fromthestretch]

It's going to take quite a few great seasons to balance out these 2 years.

 

It would take exactly one season to balance it out.

 

Yeah if they went 104-58 in 2014 it would bring them back to .500. Of course that's assuming they only lose 100 this year and they improve by 15 games next year.

 

No one is going to give a rat's behind that Theo's Cubs lost 100 games in 2012 if the Cubs win a World Series while he's here. Hell, just getting to a World Series will help people forget this season.

[Backtobanks]

I guess the question is whether B2B would rather suck for a year, have plenty of money fall off the books, amp the farm system up tremendously and have the opportunity to make whatever moves they want to over the next few seasons. Or max out the payroll, put an averagish team out there that's getting older, but has a CHANCE to make the playoffs, albeit as a team that sneaks in, doesn't have room to make deals, and is probably never going to have a chance to dominate. And until he says EXACTLY how he'd make the 2012 Cubs into a perennial contender immediately, I'll go ahead and figure he's definitely taking the 2nd scenario. We just didn't miss out on much this past offseason, once things have shaken out.

 

I would love for the Cubs to suck for one year and then have all of those wonderful things happen, but I see no evidence that the Cubs are going to be very good next year. Amping up the farm system is great, but right now Rizzo looks like the only "sure thing". Whatever moves they're going to make is most likely jumping into the FA pool and maxing out the payroll again. Finally, as others have posted, putting a "decent" (a.k.a. watchable) team on the field this year would not have maxed out the payroll or excluded amping up the farm system or having plenty of money come off the books for future moves.

[Backtobanks]

It's going to take quite a few great seasons to balance out these 2 years.

 

It would take exactly one season to balance it out.

 

Yeah if they went 104-58 in 2014 it would bring them back to .500. Of course that's assuming they only lose 100 this year and they improve by 15 games next year.

 

No one is going to give a rat's behind that Theo's Cubs lost 100 games in 2012 if the Cubs win a World Series while he's here. Hell, just getting to a World Series will help people forget this season.

 

That's a big "if".

[Tracer Bullet]

Of course it is. It only happens to 2 teams a year and Theo was handed a steaming pile of [expletive] by his completely inept predecessor.

[jersey cubs fan]

Of course it is. It only happens to 2 teams a year and Theo was handed a steaming pile of [expletive] by his completely inept predecessor.

 

1

[fromthestretch]

It's going to take quite a few great seasons to balance out these 2 years.

 

It would take exactly one season to balance it out.

 

Yeah if they went 104-58 in 2014 it would bring them back to .500. Of course that's assuming they only lose 100 this year and they improve by 15 games next year.

 

No one is going to give a rat's behind that Theo's Cubs lost 100 games in 2012 if the Cubs win a World Series while he's here. Hell, just getting to a World Series will help people forget this season.

 

That's a big "if".

 

It's only big when you increase the font size by 20x. Otherwise, it's a pretty standard "if".

 

Sure, if the Cubs lose 100 games this season followed by several mediocre seasons with maybe a few decent ones sprinkled in, it won't look all that great. It would look like the Hendry era. My point though is that it won't take several seasons to balance out a 100-loss season, when a World Series would pretty much make people forget about a 100-loss season.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'll forget about it the first time we make the playoffs three years in a row. And that includes the half WC.

[Guest]

I'll have forgotten about it as soon as we're good. I'm not sitting here in constant dismay at the 2006 Cubs.

[Bote McBoteface]

Trinidad Hubbard jumped to mind when I saw this thread, did he never hit 3rd?

[champaignchris]

Two notes:

 

1. I had completely deleted Daryle Ward from my mind. He played for the team only 5 seasons ago.

 

2. Was there a scenario under which the Cubs weren't going to suck this year? The people who are acting like the sky is falling... The sky fell three years ago. Where were you?