Re: College Basketball 2012-2013

[Exile on Waveland]

Yogi is terrible tonight. About 5 missed layups and a missed jumper inside the FT line. Now a travel.

 

That's going to hurt the Draft stock

 

Cody Zeller went 2-9 and was awful. Guess he's not an NBA player.

 

It's Zeller's ballhandling, not his shooting that is going to make him a pro.

 

Have to admit, that was good.

[SouthSideRyan]

Remember when we played this game with Victor Oladipo?

 

No. Search function doesn't either.

[Exile on Waveland]

Remember when we played this game with Victor Oladipo?

 

No. Search function doesn't either.

 

There's mocking of Oladipo in both this thread and last year's thread (oh yeah he's Wade, Jordan, of course he gets star calls, etc.). Also the "what if Oladipo comes back" posts. It was smack and I that discussed Oladipo's draft prospects earlier, though.

 

As for Ferrell, I'm honestly pretty surprised this is a controversial opinion. He's a good all-around player, with great pedigree, having a comparable freshman season efficiency-wise to some really good point guards, has multiple years to improve, and NBA scouts already have had an eye on him. He's obviously not ready for the league now, but he also pretty obviously has the skill set to get to that point.

[Smack]

How much is Big Handsome's draft stock falling?

[Exile on Waveland]

How much is Big Handsome's draft stock falling?

 

He's skilled (and smart) enough that he's not likely to ever drop out of the lottery/top-10. But few would consider him an option at the top of the draft/top-5 at this point. He has the same physical limitations he has always had--he's slight and short-armed--coupled with a disappointing lack of aggressiveness and physicalness. He also has failed to develop much of a post game and has not shown the ability to make jumpers--which is imperative (he did so in high school more, but he's looked awful on set shots in college). I think there's still a good chance he's a solid NBA starter, even on good teams, but that's not what teams are looking for at the very top of the draft (none of this is to say he hasn't been good this year, he is stIll leading Pomeroy's player of the year race). Frankly, his draft position this year is now more "accurate."

[snoodmonger]

Interesting tweet by kenpom that I missed.

 

@kenpomeroy: I'll take the teams currently ranked 1, 5, and 10 in the AP poll to win the tourney. You get everyone else.

 

This was back on 2/23. The teams were Indiana, Florida, and Louisville.

[Andy]

Interesting tweet by kenpom that I missed.

 

@kenpomeroy: I'll take the teams currently ranked 1, 5, and 10 in the AP poll to win the tourney. You get everyone else.

 

This was back on 2/23. The teams were Indiana, Florida, and Louisville.

All three teams are good, but I'd bet a hefty sum on 'everyone else' right now.

[Formerly Snayke]

As for Ferrell, I'm honestly pretty surprised this is a controversial opinion. He's a good all-around player, with great pedigree, having a comparable freshman season efficiency-wise to some really good point guards, has multiple years to improve, and NBA scouts already have had an eye on him. He's obviously not ready for the league now, but he also pretty obviously has the skill set to get to that point.

 

NBA teams aren't busting down doors to draft 6-0 point guards who can't shoot.

[rawaction]

As for Ferrell, I'm honestly pretty surprised this is a controversial opinion. He's a good all-around player, with great pedigree, having a comparable freshman season efficiency-wise to some really good point guards, has multiple years to improve, and NBA scouts already have had an eye on him. He's obviously not ready for the league now, but he also pretty obviously has the skill set to get to that point.

 

NBA teams aren't busting down doors to draft 6-0 point guards who can't shoot.

 

And nobody said he was a lottery pick. But there's a pretty good chance he gets drafted as a former McD AA, likely 4-year starter including as a freshman on the team that has been #1 most of the year.

[illiniguy]

As for Ferrell, I'm honestly pretty surprised this is a controversial opinion. He's a good all-around player, with great pedigree, having a comparable freshman season efficiency-wise to some really good point guards, has multiple years to improve, and NBA scouts already have had an eye on him. He's obviously not ready for the league now, but he also pretty obviously has the skill set to get to that point.

 

NBA teams aren't busting down doors to draft 6-0 point guards who can't shoot.

 

And nobody said he was a lottery pick. But there's a pretty good chance he gets drafted as a former McD AA, likely 4-year starter including as a freshman on the team that has been #1 most of the year.

Sounds like dee brown, Aaron miles, Jason Gardner, etc. Might get drafted, but unless he really improves his shot he won't stick.

[Exile on Waveland]

As for Ferrell, I'm honestly pretty surprised this is a controversial opinion. He's a good all-around player, with great pedigree, having a comparable freshman season efficiency-wise to some really good point guards, has multiple years to improve, and NBA scouts already have had an eye on him. He's obviously not ready for the league now, but he also pretty obviously has the skill set to get to that point.

 

NBA teams aren't busting down doors to draft 6-0 point guards who can't shoot.

 

And nobody said he was a lottery pick. But there's a pretty good chance he gets drafted as a former McD AA, likely 4-year starter including as a freshman on the team that has been #1 most of the year.

Sounds like dee brown, Aaron miles, Jason Gardner, etc. Might get drafted, but unless he really improves his shot he won't stick.

 

I suppose I need to stress this again: I chose my words carefully in stating that Ferrell would play in the NBA. Not be an NBA star, not a starter, or even a high draft pick. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that hyperbole set in; I'm sure next year it will be "IU fans think Ferrell will be the No. 1 overall pick lolz."

 

That said, I don't think it's even remotely outside of the realm of possibilities that he sticks in the NBA and I do expect him to be drafted. He'll have to shoot better than he has this year obviously; however, this issue has mostly been overblown. He's shot better in the Big Ten and has a history of good shooting. His form is also very good (when it is consistent, which it wasn't earlier in the season). What issues he is having here are correctable without an overhaul of his form, which is important (I mentioned the same last year about Oladipo, and, viola).

 

Second, focusing on the shooting obscures what has been a very good season, comparable to what I would consider to be similar-ish point guards (size and style) when they were freshmen:

 

Ty Lawson -- 116.0

Johnny Flynn -- 112.9

Yogi Ferrell -- 107.2

Trey Burke -- 105.3

 

Darren Collison is similar in size, though not really style, and was at 90.8 as a freshman. Other dissimilar players include Avery Bradley was at 104.0 and a first-round draft pick after his freshman year (though he has a couple inches on Ferrell), and Kemba Walker, who is a nudge taller but not a point guard, who was below Ferrell's current rating as a freshman and sophomore.

[Exile on Waveland]

Interesting tweet by kenpom that I missed.

 

@kenpomeroy: I'll take the teams currently ranked 1, 5, and 10 in the AP poll to win the tourney. You get everyone else.

 

This was back on 2/23. The teams were Indiana, Florida, and Louisville.

All three teams are good, but I'd bet a hefty sum on 'everyone else' right now.

 

Those are my three favorites, but, I agree, I'd bet the field.

[Formerly Snayke]

Second, focusing on the shooting obscures what has been a very good season, comparable to what I would consider to be similar-ish point guards (size and style) when they were freshmen:

 

Ty Lawson -- 116.0

Johnny Flynn -- 112.9

Yogi Ferrell -- 107.2

Trey Burke -- 105.3

 

Darren Collison is similar in size, though not really style, and was at 90.8 as a freshman. Other dissimilar players include Avery Bradley was at 104.0 and a first-round draft pick after his freshman year (though he has a couple inches on Ferrell), and Kemba Walker, who is a nudge taller but not a point guard, who was below Ferrell's current rating as a freshman and sophomore.

 

If Ferrell can't even surpass Jonny Flynn, a guy who isn't even in the league anymore, that might not bode well for his future prospects.

 

At the end of the day, he's shooting 37 percent from the floor. Take the top 18 or so point guards in the league by PER (the ones who went to college here and Derrick Rose). All of them cracked 40. A few of them were worse than Ferrell from beyond the arc (Conley, Sessions, Rondo, Jack, Holiday, Evans, Walker) but they could all score off the bat.

[Banedon]

http://deadspin.com/5987278/struggling-wisconsin-player-resorts-to-jumpshot-free-throws

[Exile on Waveland]

Second, focusing on the shooting obscures what has been a very good season, comparable to what I would consider to be similar-ish point guards (size and style) when they were freshmen:

 

Ty Lawson -- 116.0

Johnny Flynn -- 112.9

Yogi Ferrell -- 107.2

Trey Burke -- 105.3

 

Darren Collison is similar in size, though not really style, and was at 90.8 as a freshman. Other dissimilar players include Avery Bradley was at 104.0 and a first-round draft pick after his freshman year (though he has a couple inches on Ferrell), and Kemba Walker, who is a nudge taller but not a point guard, who was below Ferrell's current rating as a freshman and sophomore.

 

If Ferrell can't even surpass Jonny Flynn, a guy who isn't even in the league anymore, that might not bode well for his future prospects.

 

At the end of the day, he's shooting 37 percent from the floor. Take the top 18 or so point guards in the league by PER (the ones who went to college here and Derrick Rose). All of them cracked 40. A few of them were worse than Ferrell from beyond the arc (Conley, Sessions, Rondo, Jack, Holiday, Evans, Walker) but they could all score off the bat.

 

Jonny Flynn was the sixth pick in the draft and played three years in the NBA. He would unequivocally meet my qualification of "play" in the NBA. (Further, Flynn had a solid rookie campaign, being named second team all-rookie, but had surgery that summer and was never the same.)

 

Also, I have no idea why you're comparing him to the "top 18 or so point guards" in the NBA. That's not the criterion anyone is talking about; Ferrell's size limitations will almost surely prevent him from ever being a starter in the NBA (or, thus, a top-18 point guard). Your family of strawmen are going to need a strawhouse pretty soon.

 

That said, obviously, Ferrell will have to shoot better. No one is questioning that; basically every player in college has something that needs to improve to become an NBA player. So we have to project what players will be able to improve on their weaknesses--especially freshmen--and I've made my case that Ferrell will shoot better in the future (he's already shooting better in the Big Ten). Ferrell's (outside) shooting isn't actually the biggest culprit in his shooting percentage, it's his subpar finishing around the basket. That was an issue in high school and AAU. It projects to be a bigger issue moving forward than his perimeter shooting, which has always been more than fine, excepting this non-conference season.

[Formerly Snayke]

Jonny Flynn was the sixth pick in the draft and played three years in the NBA. He would unequivocally meet my qualification of "play" in the NBA. (Further, Flynn had a solid rookie campaign, being named second team all-rookie, but had surgery that summer and was never the same.)

 

No, he was always terrible and should have never been the sixth pick.

 

Also, I have no idea why you're comparing him to the "top 18 or so point guards" in the NBA. That's not the criterion anyone is talking about; Ferrell's size limitations will almost surely prevent him from ever being a starter in the NBA (or, thus, a top-18 point guard). Your family of strawmen are going to need a strawhouse pretty soon.

 

That isn't a strawman since I never said that you or anyone else was projecting him as a top 20 point guard. I took a large sampling of that group and compared their freshman seasons to Ferrell's. He's probably not going to be a starting caliber point guard and he might not even be a viable backup option, which makes him an interchangeable guy that plays sparingly, which makes the whole argument we're having pretty darn tedious. I think we can agree that Ferrell will play in the NBA in some capacity, but he's never going to be guaranteed a job.

[Exile on Waveland]

I think we can agree that Ferrell will play in the NBA in some capacity, but he's never going to be guaranteed a job.

 

Then I cannot understand why this argument ever started; that's all I ever said.

[SouthSideRyan]

As for Ferrell, I'm honestly pretty surprised this is a controversial opinion. He's a good all-around player, with great pedigree, having a comparable freshman season efficiency-wise to some really good point guards, has multiple years to improve, and NBA scouts already have had an eye on him. He's obviously not ready for the league now, but he also pretty obviously has the skill set to get to that point.

 

NBA teams aren't busting down doors to draft 6-0 point guards who can't shoot.

 

He's also about 5'10"

[SouthSideRyan]

Look all he's trying to say is that Ferrell is a really good bet to play in the NBDL at some point!

[SouthSideRyan]

Look all he's trying to say is that Ferrell is a really good bet to play in the NBDL at some point!

 

I mean, not necessarily start in the NBDL, but he should score some solid bench minutes.

[Formerly Snayke]

http://deadspin.com/5987278/struggling-wisconsin-player-resorts-to-jumpshot-free-throws

[Exile on Waveland]

As for Ferrell, I'm honestly pretty surprised this is a controversial opinion. He's a good all-around player, with great pedigree, having a comparable freshman season efficiency-wise to some really good point guards, has multiple years to improve, and NBA scouts already have had an eye on him. He's obviously not ready for the league now, but he also pretty obviously has the skill set to get to that point.

 

NBA teams aren't busting down doors to draft 6-0 point guards who can't shoot.

 

He's also about 5'10"

 

He has consistently been measured as 6-foot tall in shoes at camps/tournaments, making him about 5-foot-11 without shoes. Regardless, that is not a preventative measure to play in the NBA. I mean, a 5-foot-9 player, who isn't even a point guard, recently played for the NBA team you root for, and currently plays for the team most this board roots for.

[Exile on Waveland]

Look all he's trying to say is that Ferrell is a really good bet to play in the NBDL at some point!

 

I mean, not necessarily start in the NBDL, but he should score some solid bench minutes.

 

Who cares that IU got Zeller, the Zeller's aren't good at college basketball; Zeller won't make IU a tournament team; there's no guarantee Zeller will be better than Pritchard/Capobianco/Elston.

 

Remember when you said I was being too cavalier about losing Matt Carlino (a player I had seen in person dozens of times)? Seriously, your posts about IU are hilariously, embarrassingly awful and consistently wrong. It's why I know you're just trolling when posting about IU.

[radarluv1]

Because Sheehey really needed to do something to make him an even bigger [expletive] than he already was.

 

What did he do?

 

Acted like he was shot in the side of the face to try to draw a flagrant foul. There's a decent chance there was no contact and if there was, it was completely minimal. Then he flopped and rolled around while holding the side of his face.

 

I didn't think he was even close to being hit. It was worth a try, no technical for flopping. Still a douche, though he's my douche.

So was that something they work on in practice, did Crean make it up in the huddle, or did Shehey come up with it on his own?

[SouthSideRyan]

Because Sheehey really needed to do something to make him an even bigger [expletive] than he already was.

 

What did he do?

 

Acted like he was shot in the side of the face to try to draw a flagrant foul. There's a decent chance there was no contact and if there was, it was completely minimal. Then he flopped and rolled around while holding the side of his face.

 

I didn't think he was even close to being hit. It was worth a try, no technical for flopping. Still a douche, though he's my douche.

So was that something they work on in practice, did Crean make it up in the huddle, or did Shehey come up with it on his own?

 

http://deadspin.com/5987330/did-tom-crean-tell-his-indiana-players-to-flop-late-in-last-nights-loss-to-minnesota-heres-what-he-said-according-to-a-lip-reader