Manny Corpas to our bullpen

[ScrubMD]

You guys are going to feel pretty silly next year when we're stacked with good, young, cheap players and still have $60 million to spend.

 

We have the front office guys everybody has been drooling over for years, and after 2 months the posters on NSBB are already way smarter than them.

[jersey cubs fan]

You guys are going to feel pretty silly next year when we're stacked with good, young, cheap players and still have $60 million to spend.

 

We have the front office guys everybody has been drooling over for years, and after 2 months the posters on NSBB are already way smarter than them.

I think the prevailing thought is disgust at the cop out of not even trying to win in 2012. It's nit about thinking we are smarter. It's disagreeing with wasting a year and pinning it all on what happened before instead of actually viewing each opportunity to win as sacred and parallel fronts and all that.

[Exile on Waveland]

You guys are going to feel pretty silly next year when we're stacked with good, young, cheap players and still have $60 million to spend.

 

We have the front office guys everybody has been drooling over for years, and after 2 months the posters on NSBB are already way smarter than them.

 

Theo is the one who said winning is sacred/precious. And he's the one who (so far) decided to forego (any attempt at) winning this year.

[UMFan83]

Yeah even if we just signed a bunch of veterans to 1 year deals along with a couple of potential long term pieces that if everything went right they could win 85 games and sneak in the playoffs on a weak team it would

 

If they payroll ends up being like $100 million, it wont make sense to me at all.

 

And if the team ends up sucking, guess what? You have a crapload of veterans on expiring contracts that you can ship off for prospects in July. Because that's what we're trying to do right? Gain prospects, build the farm. Seems like a good way to do it and give the fans of your big market club something to at least be mildly excited with.

 

In future years I would be fine with starting a bunch of unknowns once we have a farm system that has some potential.

[dew1679666265]

I'm ok with this signing, depending on the price. If it's $1-2 million, I see no problem with it. If it's more, you're probably spending too much.

 

Either way it's not particularly necessary, but unlike the Reed Johnson signing, there's some potential for productivity here. Corpas has had a live arm, will be 29 all year, and has had some pretty nice xFIPs. I'd like to take a chance on a guy who strikes more people out (career 6.48 K/9), but he could still be productive enough to fulfill the contract or get us a prospect at the deadline.

[Post Count Padder]

Meh.

 

He could make for a nice buy-low candidate. I'm sure the dollar amount isn't much. We may have been better off with someone already in the system getting a bullpen spot, but I'll give the front office the benefit of the doubt for now. If it makes anyone feel better, Hendry probably would've given Corpas a three-year $15 mil deal with a NTC.

[davearm2]

Depressing? This is very far from depressing. This is a big bowl of hope juice. You want to know what depressing is? 2009-2011. That is depressing.

 

It is time to move on, and it is happening. Enjoy the ride people.

This is where I am, too.

 

2008 is long gone. The window of opportunity has slammed shut on the core of Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Marmol, etc.

 

Half of those guys are already gone. The other half need to go too. None will be significant contributors on the next great Cub team.

[Sammy Sofa]

Nobody "needs to go" before they can start building for the next good team immediately.

[davearm2]

Nobody "needs to go" before they can start building for the next good team immediately.

Obviously. They're already building for the next good team.

 

Holding onto the guys I mentioned isn't advancing the process whatsoever, though. I'd rather see them traded versus just letting their contracts run out.

[Sammy Sofa]

Who wouldn't? I'm just amused by the "THEY NEED TO GO NOW" false urgency from some people. Move them when the deal is there.

[pccubfan]

Nobody "needs to go" before they can start building for the next good team immediately.

Obviously. They're already building for the next good team.

 

Holding onto the guys I mentioned isn't advancing the process whatsoever, though. I'd rather see them traded versus just letting their contracts run out.

 

I laughed at this.

 

Setting the Winter Meetings

One GM to another GM: I'm looking to get into line to talk with the Cubs about Zambrano, Dempster, Soriano and Marmol. Any idea where it starts?

The other GM: Mouth wide open with a look of WTF.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, none of those guys have any value whatsoever.

[davearm2]

Who wouldn't? I'm just amused by the "THEY NEED TO GO NOW" false urgency from some people. Move them when the deal is there.

So you agree then. Cool.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Who wouldn't? I'm just amused by the "THEY NEED TO GO NOW" false urgency from some people. Move them when the deal is there.

 

With most players, I agree. However, with Soriano we should take what we can get and run with it. Assuming we have a fringe contender by 2014, he won't be a part of it and he's just getting older and slower. Dempster should have good value at the trade deadline as could Z if he has a rebound. As for Marmol, if we were willing to eat enough of his salary we could get as good of a package if not better than what we did for Marshall. His Velo might have dropped a bit but he still has some of the most electric stuff in the league.

[dew1679666265]

With most players, I agree. However, with Soriano we should take what we can get and run with it. Assuming we have a fringe contender by 2014, he won't be a part of it and he's just getting older and slower. Dempster should have good value at the trade deadline as could Z if he has a rebound. As for Marmol, if we were willing to eat enough of his salary we could get as good of a package if not better than what we did for Marshall. His Velo might have dropped a bit but he still has some of the most electric stuff in the league.

 

Since we don't plan to contend for a couple of years, we have a couple meaningless seasons where we can shop Soriano at the trade deadline and hope some desperate team bites. It's not very likely, but since we're not trying to win I'd rather just hold onto him and see if somebody gets desperate or see if he has a big half season.

[davearm2]

With most players, I agree. However, with Soriano we should take what we can get and run with it. Assuming we have a fringe contender by 2014, he won't be a part of it and he's just getting older and slower. Dempster should have good value at the trade deadline as could Z if he has a rebound. As for Marmol, if we were willing to eat enough of his salary we could get as good of a package if not better than what we did for Marshall. His Velo might have dropped a bit but he still has some of the most electric stuff in the league.

 

Since we don't plan to contend for a couple of years, we have a couple meaningless seasons where we can shop Soriano at the trade deadline and hope some desperate team bites. It's not very likely, but since we're not trying to win I'd rather just hold onto him and see if somebody gets desperate or see if he has a big half season.

The competing interest is finding regular playing time for guys like Brett Jackson and Sappelt. Personally, I'm not ready to slap the "4th OF" tag on Sappelt, so I'd like to see both Jackson and Sappelt starting in the OF sooner rather than later. That leaves DeJesus as the third regular OF, and a part-time (at best) role for Soriano. At that point, you kinda have to find a way to deal him.

[pccubfan]

Yeah, none of those guys have any value whatsoever.

 

I didn't mean to say that. There just isn't going to be people jumping over each other to make a deal for them. It has to be the right team, at the right time, and the right price. I think either Kyle or you said they had non-zero value yesterday. I would agree with that.

[Little Slide Rooter]

With most players, I agree. However, with Soriano we should take what we can get and run with it. Assuming we have a fringe contender by 2014, he won't be a part of it and he's just getting older and slower. Dempster should have good value at the trade deadline as could Z if he has a rebound. As for Marmol, if we were willing to eat enough of his salary we could get as good of a package if not better than what we did for Marshall. His Velo might have dropped a bit but he still has some of the most electric stuff in the league.

 

Since we don't plan to contend for a couple of years, we have a couple meaningless seasons where we can shop Soriano at the trade deadline and hope some desperate team bites. It's not very likely, but since we're not trying to win I'd rather just hold onto him and see if somebody gets desperate or see if he has a big half season.

 

However, what evidence is there that we don't plan to contend for a couple of years? Complete overhaul and rebuild? So what? Aside from Castro and Garza, we have a bunch of expendable players. We won't be major players for Fielder? If he's not our guy, he's not our guy. I don't expect to compete in 2011, but between the end of the past season and the end of next season, there's something like 75 mil coming off the books. While there's no reason to spend it all immediately I really don't see us using a good chunk of it and it wont be on 50-75 Reed Johnson's and Manny Corpases. If we don't sign Prince Fielder, all that means is that we don't sign Prince Fielder and it doesn't give me any indication that we plan to punt the next 3 years.

[dew1679666265]

However, what evidence is there that we don't plan to contend for a couple of years? Complete overhaul and rebuild? So what? Aside from Castro and Garza, we have a bunch of expendable players. We won't be major players for Fielder? If he's not our guy, he's not our guy. I don't expect to compete in 2011, but between the end of the past season and the end of next season, there's something like 75 mil coming off the books. While there's no reason to spend it all immediately I really don't see us using a good chunk of it and it wont be on 50-75 Reed Johnson's and Manny Corpases. If we don't sign Prince Fielder, all that means is that we don't sign Prince Fielder and it doesn't give me any indication that we plan to punt the next 3 years.

 

Assuming we don't sign Prince and instead go with, say, Rizzo, I see almost no way to build a contender for 2013. Maybe if Stewart breaks out, BJax develops quickly, we sign Cespedes and he pans out quickly, Castro continues to improve, and we hit on two premiere pitching FAs next offseason, we might have a shot at contending. But that offense still looks pretty weak with an aging Soto and DeJesus, Barney at second, a still developing Rizzo at first, and something in left (Soriano? somebody else? If so, who?).

 

Theo may pull off some magic that stuns me and has us competing in 2013, but if we punt this year like it appears we are and go into full rebuild mode, I simply don't think the talent (offensive in particular) will be there for us to be a likely contender in 2013. At best we'll have the same shot at contending next year as we did at the start of this offseason - a longshot if we make some key moves.

[dew1679666265]

The competing interest is finding regular playing time for guys like Brett Jackson and Sappelt. Personally, I'm not ready to slap the "4th OF" tag on Sappelt, so I'd like to see both Jackson and Sappelt starting in the OF sooner rather than later. That leaves DeJesus as the third regular OF, and a part-time (at best) role for Soriano. At that point, you kinda have to find a way to deal him.

 

If Sappelt is a corner guy only, then I think it's a pretty big longshot that he's more than a marginal starter. I'd be all for some hybrid form of platoon between him and Soriano to try to keep Soriano healthy, but I wouldn't tank what little chance we have to get value out of Soriano on the longshot chance that Sappelt improves with the beat enough to hold down a corner OF spot.

 

If he can play CF well, though, that's a different story entirely.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The competing interest is finding regular playing time for guys like Brett Jackson and Sappelt. Personally, I'm not ready to slap the "4th OF" tag on Sappelt, so I'd like to see both Jackson and Sappelt starting in the OF sooner rather than later. That leaves DeJesus as the third regular OF, and a part-time (at best) role for Soriano. At that point, you kinda have to find a way to deal him.

 

If Sappelt is a corner guy only, then I think it's a pretty big longshot that he's more than a marginal starter. I'd be all for some hybrid form of platoon between him and Soriano to try to keep Soriano healthy, but I wouldn't tank what little chance we have to get value out of Soriano on the longshot chance that Sappelt improves with the beat enough to hold down a corner OF spot.

 

If he can play CF well, though, that's a different story entirely.

 

Does Sappelt have to improve to beat out Soriano?

 

I mean, what's a realistic projection for Sappelt? 280/320/400 with good defense? "Marginal starter" is a good tag for that production, but I'm not sure Soriano can do better at this point.

[Backtobanks]

The competing interest is finding regular playing time for guys like Brett Jackson and Sappelt. Personally, I'm not ready to slap the "4th OF" tag on Sappelt, so I'd like to see both Jackson and Sappelt starting in the OF sooner rather than later. That leaves DeJesus as the third regular OF, and a part-time (at best) role for Soriano. At that point, you kinda have to find a way to deal him.

 

If Sappelt is a corner guy only, then I think it's a pretty big longshot that he's more than a marginal starter. I'd be all for some hybrid form of platoon between him and Soriano to try to keep Soriano healthy, but I wouldn't tank what little chance we have to get value out of Soriano on the longshot chance that Sappelt improves with the beat enough to hold down a corner OF spot.

 

If he can play CF well, though, that's a different story entirely.

 

Does Sappelt have to improve to beat out Soriano?

 

I mean, what's a realistic projection for Sappelt? 280/320/400 with good defense? "Marginal starter" is a good tag for that production, but I'm not sure Soriano can do better at this point.

 

You aren't going to put an $18 million OF that you are trying to trade on the bench to play a "marginal starter".

[Little Slide Rooter]

However, what evidence is there that we don't plan to contend for a couple of years? Complete overhaul and rebuild? So what? Aside from Castro and Garza, we have a bunch of expendable players. We won't be major players for Fielder? If he's not our guy, he's not our guy. I don't expect to compete in 2011, but between the end of the past season and the end of next season, there's something like 75 mil coming off the books. While there's no reason to spend it all immediately I really don't see us using a good chunk of it and it wont be on 50-75 Reed Johnson's and Manny Corpases. If we don't sign Prince Fielder, all that means is that we don't sign Prince Fielder and it doesn't give me any indication that we plan to punt the next 3 years.

 

Assuming we don't sign Prince and instead go with, say, Rizzo, I see almost no way to build a contender for 2013. Maybe if Stewart breaks out, BJax develops quickly, we sign Cespedes and he pans out quickly, Castro continues to improve, and we hit on two premiere pitching FAs next offseason, we might have a shot at contending. But that offense still looks pretty weak with an aging Soto and DeJesus, Barney at second, a still developing Rizzo at first, and something in left (Soriano? somebody else? If so, who?).

 

Theo may pull off some magic that stuns me and has us competing in 2013, but if we punt this year like it appears we are and go into full rebuild mode, I simply don't think the talent (offensive in particular) will be there for us to be a likely contender in 2013. At best we'll have the same shot at contending next year as we did at the start of this offseason - a longshot if we make some key moves.

 

I generally feel the same way, but that's why Ricketts weant through the trouble of assembling this front office and didn't just post a help wanted sign at NSBB. If the plan was to throw a combined 250 or so mil at Prince Fielder and CJ Wilson and then another 100-200 mil on something else next year I'd be more than OK with it but that's something you need some kind of dream team brain trust to do. Sure you need someone assemble the rest of the team but I can safely assume that any respectable GM could manage that. I think that if nothing else a watchable team will start to materialize by this time next year and there's always the chance that they can still surprise us this offseason. Might not be Prince Fielder but as I said when Theo and Jed first came on board, I'm very interested to see what happens. You know when some senseless tragedy happen and the religious goofs line up to say that its all part of Gods plan to make us stronger? That's how I feel about what these guys are doing. I may bitch and moan about the hardships and pestilence along the way but I have faith in the final product.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The competing interest is finding regular playing time for guys like Brett Jackson and Sappelt. Personally, I'm not ready to slap the "4th OF" tag on Sappelt, so I'd like to see both Jackson and Sappelt starting in the OF sooner rather than later. That leaves DeJesus as the third regular OF, and a part-time (at best) role for Soriano. At that point, you kinda have to find a way to deal him.

 

If Sappelt is a corner guy only, then I think it's a pretty big longshot that he's more than a marginal starter. I'd be all for some hybrid form of platoon between him and Soriano to try to keep Soriano healthy, but I wouldn't tank what little chance we have to get value out of Soriano on the longshot chance that Sappelt improves with the beat enough to hold down a corner OF spot.

 

If he can play CF well, though, that's a different story entirely.

 

Does Sappelt have to improve to beat out Soriano?

 

I mean, what's a realistic projection for Sappelt? 280/320/400 with good defense? "Marginal starter" is a good tag for that production, but I'm not sure Soriano can do better at this point.

 

You aren't going to put an $18 million OF that you are trying to trade on the bench to play a "marginal starter".

 

Yeah, if they're going to get rid of Soriano, the're going to get rid of Soriano, but I don't think that Dave Sappelt is going to be the reason. If anything he renders the newly re-signed Reed Johnson even more pointless he was earlier this week.

[dew1679666265]

Does Sappelt have to improve to beat out Soriano?

 

I mean, what's a realistic projection for Sappelt? 280/320/400 with good defense? "Marginal starter" is a good tag for that production, but I'm not sure Soriano can do better at this point.

 

I agree that it's pretty close between Sappelt and Soriano at this point as to who is better. However, Soriano did post a .758 OPS last year with bad luck (.266 BABIP with a 19.9% LD%). Defense will drag him down, but I don't know that it's a good bet that Sappelt will be better.

 

With contention not really an issue this year or next and production likely to be similar, I'd rather see if Soriano could build some value by having a hot start to 2012 and finding a desperate team than to start Sappelt from day 1. If you can move Soriano at the deadline, then you make Sappelt the starter. If you bench Soriano now, you kill any chance you might have of getting even a tiny bit of value for him.