Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[Irrelevant Dude]

What is the long term prognosis for this type of injury? Is it typically a one-time freak injury that goes away with rest or is it something that may be likely to recur?

[A New Era]

The long term prognosis is we won't have a rotation of

 

Shark

Delgado

Perez

Wood

rookie

 

next year.

[davell]

Assuming Garza's here and pitching, I guess it's possible to have him, Shark, Wood, and one youngster we can find in a trade, along with a vet stopgap.

[Clem Fandango]

What is the long term prognosis for this type of injury? Is it typically a one-time freak injury that goes away with rest or is it something that may be likely to recur?

 

FWIW, this was just posted on Rotoworld...

 

Blake Parker (elbow) struck out one over a scoreless inning of work Monday in his first minor league rehab appearance with Triple-A Iowa.

Parker has been sidelined since early June with a stress reaction in his elbow. Barring any setbacks, he should join the Cubs' bullpen in September.

 

Sounds like it will keep him sidelined at least until the middle of September, but likely through the rest of the season if Parker's recovery is a common recovery time for the injury.

[A New Era]

Assuming Garza's here and pitching, I guess it's possible to have him, Shark, Wood, and one youngster we can find in a trade, along with a vet stopgap.

 

I meant that if Garza didn't get hurt and dempster wasn't an ass we would have 2 young pitchers with ceilings of #2 and #1. Sorry I wasn't specific. I'm just venting still, and I will be for a long time.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The long term prognosis is we won't have a rotation of

 

Shark

Delgado

Perez

Wood

rookie

 

next year.

 

It's early and I havnt had my coffee, so the answer to this question is likely an obvious one: who the hell is Perez?

[Little Slide Rooter]

@Rotoworld_BB: Jays' Hutchison to undergo Tommy John surgery http://t.co/4hgULdq4

 

Wasnt this one our proposed Garza trade targets?

[mookie]

Like flies, I tell you, like flies.

[davell]

Yeah, Hutchison was one of my guys. But at this point, Garza almost definitely goes into next year as a Cub. Hope he pitches well and go from there.

[Cubswin11]

Pitching prospects are a finicky thing. I prefer acquiring young position players over pitchers whenever possible when trading guys and acquiring pitching by adding guys who are ML proven (unless we are talking about as close to a can't miss pitching prospect that's in the Strasburg/Prior spectrum).

[davell]

The long term prognosis is we won't have a rotation of

 

Shark

Delgado

Perez

Wood

rookie

 

next year.

 

It's early and I havnt had my coffee, so the answer to this question is likely an obvious one: who the hell is Perez?

Martin most likely.

[Cubswin11]

The long term prognosis is we won't have a rotation of

 

Shark

Delgado

Perez

Wood

rookie

 

next year.

I assume you mean Vizcaino?

[Little Slide Rooter]

The long term prognosis is we won't have a rotation of

 

Shark

Delgado

Perez

Wood

rookie

 

next year.

 

It's early and I havnt had my coffee, so the answer to this question is likely an obvious one: who the hell is Perez?

Martin most likely.

 

Are we talking 21 year old Ranger's stud prosepct Martin Perez, and if so, how are we getting him? Or are we talking Martin Perez who pitched in the Cubs farm system between 1955-1960 according to BBR? He's 79 years old and would only be a marginal upgrade over Casey Coleman.

[El Duderino]

I'm assuming he thought Garza would get us Perez.

[davell]

Yes and he's already mentioned the Delgado, should have been ours-thing too.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Still, if we're talking hypothetical, assuming Garza and Vizcaino were both to enter 2013 fully healthy, Garza/Vizcaino/Shark/Wood/rookie or reclamation would be an equal or better rotation. Hell, plug a an inning-of doom avoiding Volstad into the 5 spot and we're set.

[dew1679666265]

The long term prognosis is we won't have a rotation of

 

Shark

Delgado

Perez

Wood

rookie

 

next year.

 

We do still have the long term prognosis of this rotation, though:

 

Garza

Vizcaino

Shark

Wood

rookie

 

so don't despair too much.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The long term prognosis is we won't have a rotation of

 

Shark

Delgado

Perez

Wood

rookie

 

next year.

 

We do still have the long term prognosis of this rotation, though:

 

Garza

Vizcaino

Shark

Wood

rookie

 

so don't despair too much.

 

Our long-term prognosis includes two guys who are out with elbow injuries and a hole that we don't know how we intend to fill. That's cause for a bit of despair.

[dew1679666265]

Our long-term prognosis includes two guys who are out with elbow injuries and a hole that we don't know how we intend to fill. That's cause for a bit of despair.

 

Well, if you buy into the idea that there are only two types of pitchers - those who have had TJS and those who are going to have it - then you would feel pretty good that Vizcaino has it behind him already. And if you believe we should tank until 2015 like some do, then it's fine that Garza may eventually need TJS since he'll have 2.5 years to have the surgery and recover from it before we try to compete again.

 

In seriousness, though, I'm not despairing over Garza's injury yet. I'm concerned, but I at least have confidence that this front office won't be reckless with him. And with the success rate of TJS, I'm not all that concerned about Vizcaino.

[davell]

I want no part of an extension with him unless it's EXTREMELY team friendly obviously. If he comes back and pitches well next year, I'm not sure you roll the dice and give him one or trade him at the deadline and hope for an Annibal Sanchez type package that still nets you a top 100ish type arm. But letting him play out the year and waiting on a comp pick is certainly not an option. Or at least a very dumb one.

 

This is two straight seasons with an elbow issue. He's never had TJS, so the likelihood of him needing one is probably magnified. If he does have to have one within a year or two, you're wasting that money for 2 years basically and then getting him back in his early 30's. There are and will be pitchers out there that are as good as him available, probably with less risk moving forward.

[SouthSideRyan]

A top 100ish arm is damn near worthless as a return.

[davell]

A top 100ish arm is damn near worthless as a return.

 

Miami got Turner out of Sanchez basically, I don't think that's all that bad, just a lot less than what we would have gotten for him otherwise.

[dew1679666265]

I want no part of an extension with him unless it's EXTREMELY team friendly obviously. If he comes back and pitches well next year, I'm not sure you roll the dice and give him one or trade him at the deadline and hope for an Annibal Sanchez type package that still nets you a top 100ish type arm. But letting him play out the year and waiting on a comp pick is certainly not an option. Or at least a very dumb one.

 

This is two straight seasons with an elbow issue. He's never had TJS, so the likelihood of him needing one is probably magnified. If he does have to have one within a year or two, you're wasting that money for 2 years basically and then getting him back in his early 30's. There are and will be pitchers out there that are as good as him available, probably with less risk moving forward.

 

Assuming he doesn't pitch again this season (probably likely), you're looking at half a season for him to pitch really well and check out completely clean medically. Even then, you're going to have a number of teams concerned over the exact things you brought up. I'd be surprised if he netted a Jacob Turner at next year's deadline - not because he's not worth that and more, but because of concerns that he'd need TJS.

 

As with basically every player, I'm completely in favor of shopping him around. However, if you don't get a decent offer, I think it's perfectly acceptable to keep him around, make a qualifying offer, and take him back on a one-year deal if nobody signs him. I do think it's more likely that he takes a team friendly deal - maybe something like the 3/27 deal TT brought up - with the Cubs at this point, kicking in after the 2013 season, obviously. And I'd really like that deal.

[davell]

I'm perfectly fine with a deal like that too. Didn't see that for some reason. That said, I honestly can't see Garza taking something like that either. If he's pitching decently and we do NOT get something offered that beats the comp pick, I'd qualify him too. Having him on another 1 year deal isn't a bad thing obviously. And I could see that happening, because I'm not sure a team punts a draft for him, this soon after this development.

[dew1679666265]

I'm perfectly fine with a deal like that too. Didn't see that for some reason. That said, I honestly can't see Garza taking something like that either. If he's pitching decently and we do NOT get something offered that beats the comp pick, I'd qualify him too. Having him on another 1 year deal isn't a bad thing obviously. And I could see that happening, because I'm not sure a team punts a draft for him, this soon after this development.

 

I'd actually be ok with giving him the qualifier each offseason until the point in time that he's willing to accept a 3/27ish deal or somebody gives him a multi-year deal and we get a comp pick. Obviously you keep trying to trade him, but unless this injury goes away and there are no lingering issues, I'll bet we don't ever get an offer worth trading him for.

 

That could actually be a really good value for us too, since he'll likely be worth well more than the qualifying offer each year.