Who will be the manager? no Ryno talk version

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Dusty, it's the 8th inning, you're up by 3, and your starting pitcher has thrown 120 pitches. What do you do?

 

Not sticking up for Dusty at all, but the scenario you just suggested is one where Mike Maddux may leave his pitcher in. He was the pitching coach for Nolan Ryan's team who was very open about ignoring pitch counts. Now would Maddux have let Prior stay out there during that inning without so much as a mound visit? I doubt it. Just saying, Maddux isn't going to make that decision based on pitch count.

 

As someone posted, they were very good about not abusing pitchers though. So while they build up arm strength thru conditioning, Maddux isn't likely to have guys throwing 130+ pitches all the time.

 

Yeah, Dusty had Prior throwing 120+ with regularity as a kid throwing more innings than he ever had before (not to mention after he had a collision with Marcus Giles where he landed on his shoulder). CJ Wilson went over 120 twice this year. Prior went over 130 three times in September alone, and again in his first postseason start. The big three averaged 113, 111 and 107 pitches per start in 2003 (Prior was the most), while CJ averaged 105 this year and the next two highest were at 100.

 

Don't mistake coaches willing to build up arm strength with what Dusty did to his pitchers. He abused the crap out of them and should never be excused for his ignorance.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/pitching/_/name/tex/seasontype/2/cat/pitchesPerStart/order/true/texas-rangers

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/pitching/_/name/chc/year/2003/seasontype/2/cat/pitchesPerStart/order/true/chicago-cubs

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/4936/year/2003/mark-prior

 

Thanks Dusty, you despicable human being.

 

I hate how pretty much every manager ever gets run out of every town, because it obscures how truly awful Dusty Baker was.

 

I am neutral on Quade, thought we overpaid for Piniella, didn't care for Baylor and thought Riggleman was probably a bit underrated.

 

But Dusty Baker actively shredded the Cubs's arms that season through willful, stubborn ignorance. The young pitchers on that staff threw workloads that no other pitcher in baseball matched, and they did it in games where the Cubs had large leads and it was completely unnecessary.

 

Dusty Baker can die in a fire.

[Laura]

I think I'm on the Maddux train. My main concern with managers is pitcher usage, which I freely admit may be a lingering reaction to Dusty. I love the thought that the Cubs could actually be a leader in optimizing pitcher development and use, and that this hire could be the first step. That focus outweighs my concern about his lack of managerial experience.

[Sammys Boombox]

Dusty, it's the 8th inning, you're up by 3, and your starting pitcher has thrown 120 pitches. What do you do?

 

Not sticking up for Dusty at all, but the scenario you just suggested is one where Mike Maddux may leave his pitcher in. He was the pitching coach for Nolan Ryan's team who was very open about ignoring pitch counts. Now would Maddux have let Prior stay out there during that inning without so much as a mound visit? I doubt it. Just saying, Maddux isn't going to make that decision based on pitch count.

 

As someone posted, they were very good about not abusing pitchers though. So while they build up arm strength thru conditioning, Maddux isn't likely to have guys throwing 130+ pitches all the time.

 

I agree. He's not going to make that decision based solely on pitch count.

[CUBZ99]

My preference so far for manager is

 

1. Maddux - Whether or not he brings his brother with him or not, I think he would have a good impact on the pitching staff. Rothschild took some heat from casual fans, but the team missed him this year. It sounds like the Cubs are going to start giving younger players a chance and he could be an excellent mentor for Cashner, McNutt, Whitenack, Carpenter, Rhee etc. He also seems not to take himself too seriously.

 

2. Tito - If he is not too beaten down from last year.

 

3. Sandberg - I kid I kid.

 

4. Sveum - Not very personable, but seems to have an understanding or stats etc.

 

5. Alomar - His old school style isn't very impressive and it seemed like he was trying too hard in his interview with the media. Add to that his comment about using statistics and I don't see anyway that he is selected.

[UMFan83]

My preference so far for manager is

 

1. Maddux - Whether or not he brings his brother with him or not, I think he would have a good impact on the pitching staff. Rothschild took some heat from casual fans, but the team missed him this year. It sounds like the Cubs are going to start giving younger players a chance and he could be an excellent mentor for Cashner, McNutt, Whitenack, Carpenter, Rhee etc. He also seems not to take himself too seriously.

 

2. Tito - If he is not too beaten down from last year.

 

3. Sandberg - I kid I kid.

 

4. Sveum - Not very personable, but seems to have an understanding or stats etc.

 

5. Alomar - His old school style isn't very impressive and it seemed like he was trying too hard in his interview with the media. Add to that his comment about using statistics and I don't see anyway that he is selected.

 

You have MacKanin below Alomar?

[MrCub14]

Levine is calling Alomar the "front-runner". WTF?

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/7184/alomar-may-be-cubs-front-runner

 

1. Sandy Alomar Jr., Cleveland Indians bench coach:Look past his lack of experience as a bench coach or a third-base coach. A baseball lifer, Alomar has been training to be a manager since his father, Sandy Sr., began to teach him and brother Roberto the game 40 years ago. Alomar has enough coaching experience and instant credibility with players, having retired in 2007. The no-nonsense former catcher knows pitching – one of the front office’s most sought-after attributes for the team’s next manager. He can communicate with both American and Latin players. Alomar is a nice guy who can also be tough when he needs to get his point across.

 

1a. Mike Maddux, Texas Rangers pitching coach: The Cubs’ front office loves the idea of a top pitching instructor managing their team. There’s little question that Maddux fits that bill. Hoyer worked with manager Bud Black, a former pitching coach, in San Diego. So don’t discount this type of process working with Maddux and the Cubs. The reason Maddux might be a bit behind Alomar was his heart-felt comment to the Cubs’ brass, admitting he might hesitate to move his family from Texas after having uprooted them for previous jobs.

 

2. Pete Mackanin, Philadelphia Phillies bench coach: This outstanding baseball man has the most experience of the four baseball men the team has interviewed thus far. Mackanin has managed 100 games as an interim manager in both Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. His resume also includes the longest coaching career to offer among the group. At age 60, Mackanin is the oldest candidate, but he still could be an outstanding choice. He's also a candidate for the opening in Boston.

 

3. Dale Sveum, Milwaukee Brewers hitting coach: Sveum has one advantage over the other three candidates: his previous relationship with the Cubs’ brass – he worked with Epstein and Hoyer for two seasons in Boston. Although it’s only a small sample size, Sveum had a successful 12-game managing record in Milwaukee under extreme pressure. He came away a winner in 2008 with the Brewers. It’s hard to judge his candidacy with just one news conference. However, he is highly thought of in both the Chicago and Boston camps.

 

If Epstein, Hoyer and team chairman Tom Ricketts can work their way through Francona’s sudden departure in Boston, he may still end up being the favorite for the Cubs’ opening. The GM meetings in Milwaukee this coming Monday and Tuesday will preclude either exec from doing much work on the manager search. Don’t expect a conclusion to the process until the end of next week at the earliest.

[17 Seconds]

considering this is a manager hiring and not a free agent player, i don't see how anybody in the media could possibly know what theo & co are thinking. in other words, he's guessing (and it's a pretty bad guess)

[Laura]

Alomar's media session seemingly went well despite (or because of?) the fantasy baseball remarks. Jon Greenburg also has him tagged as a front-runner:

 

No offense to Mackanin and Sveum, but I think name-brands Maddux and Alomar are the clear favorites.

 

"I think I bring a lot of things to the table that maybe some other guys don't bring, in regard to being a player," he said. "Going through injuries in the past, spending a lot of time in the minor leagues as a player, playing in the postseason, going to the World Series, playing for 10 different managers. All of them participated in the postseason, seven of them went to the World Series and three of them won. I played for winning people all of my career."

 

Alomar's presence could be his best asset to manage a team in flux.

 

Respect became a problem in the Cubs' clubhouse this past year. Not as big a problem as starting pitching depth or defense or, well, every other facet of the game, but it was evident that the players tuned out Mike Quade early and didn't think much of his stewardship as the S.S. Cubbie sank like a stone.

 

While Maddux expressed concern about moving his wife and two college-age daughters from Texas, Alomar lives a few miles away in Bucktown, not far from Ozzie Guillen and around the corner from this reporter's humble abode. He even sends his 7-year-old daughter to a well-regarded public elementary school near Wrigley Field.

 

Speaking of that type of decision-making, I asked Alomar the "sabermetric" question. I figured he would soft-shoe around it and say numbers are important somehow, but he really spoke his mind. I loved his answer, which one veteran reporter translated as: Bleep that stuff.

 

"That helps," he said of advanced statistics. "But it doesn't tell you the whole story. It doesn't tell you the whole story in the game. There's also a lot of gut-feeling decisions you've got to make. If there's a stat you think is a flashy number that says, 'This guy is doing very good against the other guy,' you can use that during the game in a key situation, yes.

 

"But we cannot just depend on stats alone. You've got to depend on many other things that come before that. I don't like to become a fantasy manager. I want players to be able to manage themselves. The goal for a good manager is to have players who can manage themselves on the field and be team baseball players, not fantasy baseball players."

 

Boom!

[rocket]

meh. if alomar has a reputation for the ability to handle pitchers well and has the respect of his players, he's good enough.

 

and even though his answer about stats wasn't ideal, at least he didn't throw in any nonsense about playing the game the right way, sac bunting, hit and runs, small ball wins games, etc.

[North Iowa Cub]

Dusty, it's the 8th inning, you're up by 3, and your starting pitcher has thrown 120 pitches. What do you do?

 

Not sticking up for Dusty at all, but the scenario you just suggested is one where Mike Maddux may leave his pitcher in. He was the pitching coach for Nolan Ryan's team who was very open about ignoring pitch counts. Now would Maddux have let Prior stay out there during that inning without so much as a mound visit? I doubt it. Just saying, Maddux isn't going to make that decision based on pitch count.

 

As someone posted, they were very good about not abusing pitchers though. So while they build up arm strength thru conditioning, Maddux isn't likely to have guys throwing 130+ pitches all the time.

 

I agree. He's not going to make that decision based solely on pitch count.

 

I have not read all of the posts regarding pitcher usage etc. The discussions I have read, however, there seems to be a disconnect between conditioning on off days (Which is what the Rangers are doing different than everyone else.) and pitch counts in actual games (Which is what Dusty did different than everyone else.).

Again, Not sure if that point has been made and I am simply too lazy to read through everything.

[UMFan83]

I dunno. He talks about gut feelings and stuff which is bothersome. And the whole comment about fantasy baseball just screams ignorance to me. I don't think the manager needs to be as statistically inclined as the GM as its their job to play the players the GM brings to them. So if the GM is giving you the right players it shouldn't be an issue most of the time. But to almost completely dismiss it seems unacceptable too.

 

He seems liked he'd be a great clubhouse presence who commands respect and has a great feel for the game. But I'm not sure of Theo and co. will be able to get over their manager being someone who thinks that the statistical analysis that they use to evaluate players and make important decisions is "fantasy baseball"

 

I think the stuff about front runner status is just media BS.

[17 Seconds]

we all know how theo feels about leaks, so none of these reporters know a [expletive] thing. they're guessing based on who THEY thought did the best with the press.

[Clem Fandango]

Not sure if this was mentioned, might have gotten buried in the news...

 

Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune was told by a source very close to Terry Francona that the skipper "deep down" badly wants to manage the Cubs and has told president of baseball operations Theo Epstein as much.

Epstein has said that Francona likely wouldn't have to go through a formal interview for the Cubs job given that he already knows everything he needs to know about the manager, but he also hasn't given any indication that Tito is truly being considered for the gig. Francona has interviewed for the Cardinals' managerial post, but the scuttlebutt from St. Louis is that he's not the favorite for that job.

[UMFan83]

Not sure if this was mentioned, might have gotten buried in the news...

 

Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune was told by a source very close to Terry Francona that the skipper "deep down" badly wants to manage the Cubs and has told president of baseball operations Theo Epstein as much.

Epstein has said that Francona likely wouldn't have to go through a formal interview for the Cubs job given that he already knows everything he needs to know about the manager, but he also hasn't given any indication that Tito is truly being considered for the gig. Francona has interviewed for the Cardinals' managerial post, but the scuttlebutt from St. Louis is that he's not the favorite for that job.

 

Yeah this was a Trib article 2 nights ago and discussed a few pages back. I think Theo is mostly humoring Francona here and he is not a serious candidate.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Not sure if this was mentioned, might have gotten buried in the news...

 

Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune was told by a source very close to Terry Francona that the skipper "deep down" badly wants to manage the Cubs and has told president of baseball operations Theo Epstein as much.

Epstein has said that Francona likely wouldn't have to go through a formal interview for the Cubs job given that he already knows everything he needs to know about the manager, but he also hasn't given any indication that Tito is truly being considered for the gig. Francona has interviewed for the Cardinals' managerial post, but the scuttlebutt from St. Louis is that he's not the favorite for that job.

 

Yeah this was a Trib article 2 nights ago and discussed a few pages back. I think Theo is mostly humoring Francona here and he is not a serious candidate.

 

I don't think that Theo would "humor" the guy he worked with for 9 year and supposedly has undying mutual respect for, and if he did, Tito would see through it. If Francona isn't a candidate now, he never was to begin with and he'd have known it a while ago and would be long since out of the discussion.

[Tracer Bullet]

Not sure if this was mentioned, might have gotten buried in the news...

 

Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune was told by a source very close to Terry Francona that the skipper "deep down" badly wants to manage the Cubs and has told president of baseball operations Theo Epstein as much.

Epstein has said that Francona likely wouldn't have to go through a formal interview for the Cubs job given that he already knows everything he needs to know about the manager, but he also hasn't given any indication that Tito is truly being considered for the gig. Francona has interviewed for the Cardinals' managerial post, but the scuttlebutt from St. Louis is that he's not the favorite for that job.

 

Yeah this was a Trib article 2 nights ago and discussed a few pages back. I think Theo is mostly humoring Francona here and he is not a serious candidate.

 

I'm struggling to understand this point of view.

[Guest]

1) Will he consistently reinforce the message about owning the strike zone to both hitters and pitchers?

 

2) How well will he handle the pitching staff?

 

3) Will he avoid giving up outs in stupid situations?

 

4) Does he have enough of a presence to command the respect of the team?

 

 

If management feels these guys answer those questions in the right way, I don't care too much.

[Bull]

1) Will he consistently reinforce the message about owning the strike zone to both hitters and pitchers?

 

2) How well will he handle the pitching staff?

 

3) Will he avoid giving up outs in stupid situations?

 

4) Does he have enough of a presence to command the respect of the team?

 

 

If management feels these guys answer those questions in the right way, I don't care too much.

I'll add, "Will he use role players properly," between 2 and 3, and submit that I think the order of these is important.

[Guest]

1) Will he consistently reinforce the message about owning the strike zone to both hitters and pitchers?

 

2) How well will he handle the pitching staff?

 

3) Will he avoid giving up outs in stupid situations?

 

4) Does he have enough of a presence to command the respect of the team?

 

 

If management feels these guys answer those questions in the right way, I don't care too much.

I'll add, "Will he use role players properly," between 2 and 3, and submit that I think the order of these is important.

Yeah, I definitely sequenced mine.

[Guest]

One of the worst parts of that stats answer was that the stat he did say he'd use was the situational match-up (hitter vs. pitcher) crap.

 

 

"That helps," he said of advanced statistics. "But it doesn't tell you the whole story. It doesn't tell you the whole story in the game. There's also a lot of gut-feeling decisions you've got to make. If there's a stat you think is a flashy number that says, 'This guy is doing very good against the other guy,' you can use that during the game in a key situation, yes.

 

It's ridiculous to me that these guys don't even know what advanced statistics are.

[UMFan83]

Not sure if this was mentioned, might have gotten buried in the news...

 

Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune was told by a source very close to Terry Francona that the skipper "deep down" badly wants to manage the Cubs and has told president of baseball operations Theo Epstein as much.

Epstein has said that Francona likely wouldn't have to go through a formal interview for the Cubs job given that he already knows everything he needs to know about the manager, but he also hasn't given any indication that Tito is truly being considered for the gig. Francona has interviewed for the Cardinals' managerial post, but the scuttlebutt from St. Louis is that he's not the favorite for that job.

 

Yeah this was a Trib article 2 nights ago and discussed a few pages back. I think Theo is mostly humoring Francona here and he is not a serious candidate.

 

I'm struggling to understand this point of view.

 

Just a personal opinion that Theo wants to start fresh without Tito. As the article said he is concerned with too much Bostonization of the Cubs, so it would make sense that with a new team he'd want a new manager, especially given his "10 year" theory.

[UMFan83]

Not sure if this was mentioned, might have gotten buried in the news...

 

Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune was told by a source very close to Terry Francona that the skipper "deep down" badly wants to manage the Cubs and has told president of baseball operations Theo Epstein as much.

Epstein has said that Francona likely wouldn't have to go through a formal interview for the Cubs job given that he already knows everything he needs to know about the manager, but he also hasn't given any indication that Tito is truly being considered for the gig. Francona has interviewed for the Cardinals' managerial post, but the scuttlebutt from St. Louis is that he's not the favorite for that job.

 

Yeah this was a Trib article 2 nights ago and discussed a few pages back. I think Theo is mostly humoring Francona here and he is not a serious candidate.

 

I don't think that Theo would "humor" the guy he worked with for 9 year and supposedly has undying mutual respect for, and if he did, Tito would see through it. If Francona isn't a candidate now, he never was to begin with and he'd have known it a while ago and would be long since out of the discussion.

 

True, but if Tito was a serious candidate, why hasn't he been hired already? Theo knows everything there is to know about Francona, so to even interview other candidates tells me that Francona isn't the idea candidate for this particular position.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Not sure if this was mentioned, might have gotten buried in the news...

 

Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune was told by a source very close to Terry Francona that the skipper "deep down" badly wants to manage the Cubs and has told president of baseball operations Theo Epstein as much.

Epstein has said that Francona likely wouldn't have to go through a formal interview for the Cubs job given that he already knows everything he needs to know about the manager, but he also hasn't given any indication that Tito is truly being considered for the gig. Francona has interviewed for the Cardinals' managerial post, but the scuttlebutt from St. Louis is that he's not the favorite for that job.

 

Yeah this was a Trib article 2 nights ago and discussed a few pages back. I think Theo is mostly humoring Francona here and he is not a serious candidate.

 

I don't think that Theo would "humor" the guy he worked with for 9 year and supposedly has undying mutual respect for, and if he did, Tito would see through it. If Francona isn't a candidate now, he never was to begin with and he'd have known it a while ago and would be long since out of the discussion.

 

True, but if Tito was a serious candidate, why hasn't he been hired already? Theo knows everything there is to know about Francona, so to even interview other candidates tells me that Francona isn't the idea candidate for this particular position.

 

He's a candidate just like the rest. However, his candidacy probably depends on which way they decide to take the team over the next few years. During Titos time on the Red Sox, they were a big money, star studded team. If Theo and Hoyer chooses to go that way, Francona would be a good choice. However, there is a lot of indication that they might not go in that direction and when you take a guy who's used to having a star filled team and put them in a situation with a lot of young and hopefully up and coming players things probably won't turn out the same, and it's certainly not worth paying Tito whatever a "celebrity" manager makes rather than one of the other candidates who would come a lot cheaper.

[Guest]

Expanding on my thoughts above, here is a more fleshed out discussion of the four things I think the Cubs should require in the next manager.

[CincyCubsFan]

Maybe this has been covered, but why hasn't Dave Martinez been interviewed yet? I thought he and Maddux were said to be the favorites?