Constructing the 2012 Cubs

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Trust me when I say the sports radio shows had floated that idea down here and many of my friends who love the Royals were all for it. I wonder if we kicked the tires at all?

 

I think every team kicked the tires on Gordon. He was a former #2 overall pick who in his only full season hit 35 doubles with a 109 OPS+. Most guys who're highly thought of draft picks or prospects would get interest anyway. Jeremy Hermida finds one or two every year it seems.

[Guest]

My thoughts at 1am. They'll likely change tomorrow. :)

[Rob]

My thoughts at 1am. They'll likely change tomorrow. :)

 

Don't we have a whole sub-board for Front Page Article Discussion?

[Guest]

My thoughts at 1am. They'll likely change tomorrow. :)

 

Don't we have a whole sub-board for Front Page Article Discussion?

Honestly, it's been so long since I wrote an article I forgot all about it. :)

[Rob]

My thoughts at 1am. They'll likely change tomorrow. :)

 

Don't we have a whole sub-board for Front Page Article Discussion?

Honestly, it's been so long since I wrote an article I forgot all about it. :)

 

Well, no better time than now to get the front page filled with some content again. It'd be about the right time of year if you wanted to get a bunch of people together to work out the Cubs top prospect list for NSBB again. That'd be a good start.

[Guest]

My thoughts at 1am. They'll likely change tomorrow. :)

 

 

Nice write up. Outlines the situation very well.

[Guest]

My thoughts at 1am. They'll likely change tomorrow. :)

 

 

Nice write up. Outlines the situation very well.

Thanks. There's still a lot unsaid there, but the thing was already getting long. :)

[Geech]

My thoughts at 1am. They'll likely change tomorrow. :)

 

If the Cubs trade Byrd and Soriano, what do you think the outfield looks like for 2012? Even if we assume Jackson is playing CF come Hell or high water, that still leaves us having to fill two outfield spots.

[Guest]

My thoughts at 1am. They'll likely change tomorrow. :)

 

If the Cubs trade Byrd and Soriano, what do you think the outfield looks like for 2012? Even if we assume Jackson is playing CF come Hell or high water, that still leaves us having to fill two outfield spots.

Unless I'm remembering things incorrectly from late last night, it was an either/or thing for trading those guys.

[dew1679666265]

This is for TT:

 

@Kevin_Goldstein Japanese teams are interested in LaHair.

 

Yes they are. So are Cubs. RT @npbtracker: @Kevin_Goldstein Japanese teams are interested in LaHair.

 

They also noted that Lastings Milledge is expected to sign with a Japanese team perhaps as early as next week.

[davell]

Our payroll is basically right at 100 mill right now, counting Wood coming back around 2 mill. I'm not counting Baker and DeWitt in there either, think they could be dealt. Anyway, with no trades at all involving us adding something substantial, how about this plan: sign Fielder for 8 years and 172 mill. 14, 18, 22, 22, and 24 for each of the last 4 years. Sign Sizemore for one year and 6 mill, with incentives to where he could reach 14 mill, if he has a season from his past. Sign Kouzmanoff for 3rd at around 1 or 2 mill. Add Bedard at 8 mill, with incentives and an option year that vests with solid production at 12 or 14 mill. Add Chris Young on a make good deal as well. Payroll would basically be around 135ish. No longterm commitments other than Prince. But some upside guys, that if they did hit, we could be really good and we're still in position to be serious players next year in FA. Thoughts?

[dew1679666265]

Our payroll is basically right at 100 mill right now, counting Wood coming back around 2 mill. I'm not counting Baker and DeWitt in there either, think they could be dealt. Anyway, with no trades at all involving us adding something substantial, how about this plan: sign Fielder for 8 years and 172 mill. 14, 18, 22, 22, and 24 for each of the last 4 years. Sign Sizemore for one year and 6 mill, with incentives to where he could reach 14 mill, if he has a season from his past. Sign Kouzmanoff for 3rd at around 1 or 2 mill. Add Bedard at 8 mill, with incentives and an option year that vests with solid production at 12 or 14 mill. Add Chris Young on a make good deal as well. Payroll would basically be around 135ish. No longterm commitments other than Prince. But some upside guys, that if they did hit, we could be really good and we're still in position to be serious players next year in FA. Thoughts?

 

Signing two high injury risks scares me. I'd much rather shoot for Jeff Francis or Wei-Yin Chen instead of Chris Young. He'll be 33 next year and hasn't pitched 100 innings since 2008. I'm not even sure the upside is much since his best two years (2005 and 2007) were 3.7 and 3.4 WAR years.

 

That said, my #1 pitching FA choice remains C.J. Wilson.

[Guest]

Our payroll is basically right at 100 mill right now, counting Wood coming back around 2 mill. I'm not counting Baker and DeWitt in there either, think they could be dealt. Anyway, with no trades at all involving us adding something substantial, how about this plan: sign Fielder for 8 years and 172 mill. 14, 18, 22, 22, and 24 for each of the last 4 years. Sign Sizemore for one year and 6 mill, with incentives to where he could reach 14 mill, if he has a season from his past. Sign Kouzmanoff for 3rd at around 1 or 2 mill. Add Bedard at 8 mill, with incentives and an option year that vests with solid production at 12 or 14 mill. Add Chris Young on a make good deal as well. Payroll would basically be around 135ish. No longterm commitments other than Prince. But some upside guys, that if they did hit, we could be really good and we're still in position to be serious players next year in FA. Thoughts?

I can get behind your moves on offense, though I'd probably just go with Baker/Flaherty at 3B instead of Kouz.

 

If we're going to try to compete in 2012, though, I think more needs to be done on the pitching side than Bedard/Young.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Our payroll is basically right at 100 mill right now, counting Wood coming back around 2 mill. I'm not counting Baker and DeWitt in there either, think they could be dealt. Anyway, with no trades at all involving us adding something substantial, how about this plan: sign Fielder for 8 years and 172 mill. 14, 18, 22, 22, and 24 for each of the last 4 years. Sign Sizemore for one year and 6 mill, with incentives to where he could reach 14 mill, if he has a season from his past. Sign Kouzmanoff for 3rd at around 1 or 2 mill. Add Bedard at 8 mill, with incentives and an option year that vests with solid production at 12 or 14 mill. Add Chris Young on a make good deal as well. Payroll would basically be around 135ish. No longterm commitments other than Prince. But some upside guys, that if they did hit, we could be really good and we're still in position to be serious players next year in FA. Thoughts?

I can get behind your moves on offense, though I'd probably just go with Baker/Flaherty at 3B instead of Kouz.

 

If we're going to try to compete in 2012, though, I think more needs to be done on the pitching side than Bedard/Young.

 

I wouldn't mind Bedard as the 2nd pitcher signing otoh, though I think I might prefer Chris Capuano.

 

Davell, I like the moves on offense too, but I'm really hoping/wishing for a better 3B option.

[Guest]

I don't think it's possible to get:

 

- Fielder

- Sizemore

- Better 3B option

- #2 pitcher

- Bedard

 

and still be within salary constraints.

[davell]

I can get behind a LeMahieu and Flaherty platoon at 3rd, by the way. Same with either Francis or Chen instead of Young. I'm thinking of this as a 6th starter with Garza/Dempster/Z/Wells as the front 4, maybe Shark can beat out Wells. I'd really like to address higher end pitching much more as well, but I don't see us doling out 2 bigtime contracts during Theo's first year in charge. Plus, next year is much more likely to have a better selection of top shelf guys out there for us to nab one. If we could somehow get Oswalt on a 2 year deal for 24, with only 8 on year 1, I'd be very happy. I'd be OK with adding Edwin Jackson on a 3 or 4 year deal around 12 mill per, based on age and potential upside, but I'd want a much better pitching coach and also a trade of Z that saves us about half his deal somehow. That said, I'm more interested in adding the big bat this year at the expense of a bigtime pitcher, if it actually is an either/or situation right now. And that's knowing we need bigtime pitching if we're going to make serious waves next year. Maybe we can add one at the deadline somehow with this squad, if things go right enough with some of the upside guys.......

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I don't think it's possible to get:

 

- Fielder

- Sizemore

- Better 3B option

- #2 pitcher

- Bedard

 

and still be within salary constraints.

 

Oh no the whole offseason would have to be changed...I'm just saying generally I wouldn't mind Bedard brought in if he was behind a Darvish or Wilson in an alternate offseason scenario.

[sneakypower]

my ideal/dream offseason:

 

6/135 to Prince or

6/200 +20m mutual option to Pujols

 

trade Barney, Marmol for Liriano

 

trade JJax, Gaub (Mateo?), Vitters for Headley or

2/22 to Ramirez or

sign Ian Stewart (he might be non-tendered)

 

2/18 +6m player option to Kelly Johnson

 

if you can get salary relief for Soriano somehow, i'd love DeJesus in LF on a 2/18 deal, trade Byrd

 

1/12 to Sizemore (gotta believe he won't demand much more than a prove-yourself Berkman/Beltre-esque contract); can keep Byrd as a 4th OF, Sizemore insurance

 

send Grabow on a rocket to the moon

 

...

 

you could very plausibly have something like this, without any added grand financial commitments, aside from 6 years to Fielder (ages 28-33):

 

2B K Johnson

SS Castro

RF Sizemore

1B Prince

3B Headley/Stewart

LF DeJesus (Soriano)

CF B Jackson

C Soto/Castillo

 

Bench:

OF LaHair/Byrd

OF Campana

C Castillo/Clevenger

MIF LeMahieu

Util Flaherty/Baker

 

SP Garza

SP Liriano

SP Dempster

SP Zambrano (Bedard? Piniero?)

SP R Wells

Rusin/Coleman

 

RP Russell

RP Mateo (Carpenter?)

RP Samardzija

RP Marshall

RP Wood

RP Cashner

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Keep Zambrano.

Sign Fielder to a 5/125 deal (maybe optimistic on my part).

Make Jackson your everyday CFer and go with a Baker/somebody (Flaherty? LeMahieu? Cheap FA?) platoon at 3b.

Non-tender Hill and bring up Castillo.

Let LaHair have his MLB roster spot, make him the primary PHing option.

Tell Carlos Zambrano he gets a fresh start under a new manager, and remind him it's a contract year.

Let Samardzija stretch out with an eye toward starting, but don't be surprised if you have to make him a reliever. Try to get half a season of starting out of Cashner, with him being a long man the rest of the time.

Bring Wood back on a similar deal if he's ready to go.

 

Soriano/Jackson/Byrd (Colvin, X?)

 

(Baker/Platoon partner)/Castro/Barney/Fielder (Platoon partner, DeWitt, LaHair)

 

Soto (Castillo)

 

Garza/Dempster/Zambrano/(Wells/Samardzija/Cashner)/X

 

Marmol/Marshall/Samardzija/Wood/Russell/Open competition

 

That should leave you with about $15 million to fill in that last rotation spot via free agency. (Well, not last in the sense that it's the fifth starter, just last in that I left that one blank the longest because I'm not all that comfortable picking out a specific FA pitcher. I trust you, Theo!)

 

That profiles to me as a .500+ team with a chance for the breaks to take them further.

[jersey cubs fan]

Try to get half a season of starting out of Cashner, with him being a long man the rest of the time.

 

How do you plan on implementing this idea? Start him at the beginning of the year then make him a long man after he hits a certain number of innings? Or have him be the long man early and then slide him into the rotation if he stays healthy and somebody else goes down? I don't think it's realistic to have him starting in April.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Try to get half a season of starting out of Cashner, with him being a long man the rest of the time.

 

How do you plan on implementing this idea? Start him at the beginning of the year then make him a long man after he hits a certain number of innings? Or have him be the long man early and then slide him into the rotation if he stays healthy and somebody else goes down? I don't think it's realistic to have him starting in April.

 

The latter sounds better.

[jersey cubs fan]

Try to get half a season of starting out of Cashner, with him being a long man the rest of the time.

 

How do you plan on implementing this idea? Start him at the beginning of the year then make him a long man after he hits a certain number of innings? Or have him be the long man early and then slide him into the rotation if he stays healthy and somebody else goes down? I don't think it's realistic to have him starting in April.

 

The latter sounds better.

 

I think it would be best for him to start him in AAA and be cautious until midseason. But it would probably be best for the team to have him as a long man early then extend him into starting.

[Guest]

If you want both to have a chance to show their stuff, some sort of piggyback arrangement where you try to get 250 IP from one spot in the rotation between Cashner and Samardzija is an interesting idea.

[jersey cubs fan]

If you want both to have a chance to show their stuff, some sort of piggyback arrangement where you try to get 250 IP from one spot in the rotation between Cashner and Samardzija is an interesting idea.

 

I'd love to see it.

[dew1679666265]

No idea exactly where this should go, so I'll put it here. This post on MLBTR is pretty much nothing but good news should we decide to pursue Wilson. The Nats are showing interest in Oswalt, and from Rizzo's quote it looks like they're looking for a little more of a track record from the starter they obtain.

 

The Nationals will continue searching for pitching. "We want a guy that has shown he's a good leader, that can win in the big leagues," Rizzo said. "It's not about having the best stuff. It's about being able to pitch 200 innings many, many times in your career.” As Goessling and a number of other Nationals reporters have noted, that describes Mark Buehrle quite well.

 

The Marlins may also be a bit sour on Wilson.

 

Meanwhile, the Marlins are concerned about the command issues C.J. Wilson had in the postseason, according to Olney.

 

Nothing definite from either, but that's two suitors possibly looking elsewhere, including one many on here think may be strong players for him.