Re: New GM/Cubs Future News Articles

[Omar]

22 pages today. Good hustle. Edited October 18, 2011 by Omar

[Guest]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

[Mr.X]

They were 4th and 8th in the Marlins system before hand...all three had down years...McNutt ran the risk of being a one year wonder after coming out of nowhere as a late round guy. Look I'm not trying to diminish what McNutt has done, that's not what this is about as I feel like I've been very rational about both sides, however that's not to say that everyone will agree with my points. There's die hard fans on both sides...Some cubs fans believe that 3.5 million is all they should pay...take it or leave it no prospects...nothing. Then you have Sox fans who believe that the Cubs should give them Jackson and then some...so again its all about finding that middle ground.

 

4th and 8th in the Marlins system with a down year does not equal McNutt having a down year.

 

All 3 had a down year last year. BA ranked McNutt #48, the 2 Marlins prospects didn't crack the top 100. What I said about valuing McNutt over both ex-Marlins prospects is not outlandish.

 

Also, McNutt might have been a late round guy but the Twins nearly took him in the 8th round if they had been able to come to an agreement on his overslot bonus.

 

This is true...I was going to write (this is my mistake too for being lazy but its almost 12:30 here) that making a projection on a player due to his draft slot is a terrible way to look at a prospect. I'm just not a fan of him, I won't be upset if he puts on the laundry but I think its still good compensation for Epstein.

 

Why aren't you a fan of him?

 

I mean the blister issues don't really scare me too much although with Beckett I've seen that it could be a pain in the ass too...I think also I'm weary of him because he hasn't pitched in the higher rungs yet, I could be dead wrong on the guy, the numbers declined last year but there is always a chance on a bounce back....I'll never root against anyone though.

[davearm2]

Attempting to shift the conversation a little bit, if the negotiations with the Red Sox do break down, who would you want to go after next? I would assume Beane, Cashman, and Friedman are out at this point.

 

I personally don't get all the love for Hahn. What has he really done to deserve it? My thinking is that Cherington wouldn't be available, either.

 

I think I'd put Coppolella at the very top of my list, after Epstein. Has worked for two top organizations (Braves, Yankees) in both scouting and statistical system development.

 

 

I'm not sure Friedman is completely out and he's been my top choice all along.

 

I just think Epstein and Friedman are on a different tier than Hahn, Coppolella, etc. Not worlds better, but better enough to sacrifice a little extra for.

Absolutely on a different tier, no question. The demonstrated excellence factor is huge. Lots of highly-touted, brilliant young up and comers flame out when they become GMs.

[Mr.X]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

 

It will be more than a mediocre A-Ball pitcher...I think that has been established already.

[EpsteinCubs]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

Minor leaguers are valued way more now than they were valued in 1994.

[Mr.X]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

Minor leaguers are valued way more now than they were valued in 1994.

 

Agreed...I'm going to bed, I'll pop in again, thanks for having me tonight.

[XZero771679666304]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

 

It will be more than a mediocre A-Ball pitcher...I think that has been established already.

 

If there is precedent to cite, the MacPhail signing should be it. At the time, he was regarded as highly as Epstein is now, iirc.

 

Obviously it will be more than a mediocre a-baller, but it serves to illustrate how unrealistic and ridiculous asking for multiple top 10 prospects would be.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Two things

1) I don't think I've avoided any debated tonight haha

 

you came onto a message board of fans who root for the organization who sent off Lou Brock to the st louis [expletive] cardinals wanting to talk trade about the negotiations for the best gm in the mlb and you thought you would avoid a debate?

 

it didnt even occur differently to you?

[Mr.X]

Two things

1) I don't think I've avoided any debated tonight haha

 

you came onto a message board of fans who root for the organization who sent off Lou Brock to the st louis [expletive] cardinals wanting to talk trade about the negotiations for the best gm in the mlb and you thought you would avoid a debate?

 

it didnt even occur differently to you?

 

Why else would I come here? ...okay this is the last one...I'll pop in again

 

good luck

[Geech]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

Minor leaguers are valued way more now than they were valued in 1994.

 

So you're saying the compensation for Epstein should be lower. I see. . . You make a persuasive argument, EpsteinCubs.

[manbearcub]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

Minor leaguers are valued way more now than they were valued in 1994.

 

So you're saying the compensation for Epstein should be lower. I see. . . You make a persuasive argument, EpsteinCubs.

LOL

[scarey]

Co-CEO tomorrow and nip this in the butt if they wanted to. Can't believe after 3 hours I still have to argue my main point, we go from McNutt to this...

 

I don't get your hypothetical about the Sox naming him Co-CEO. They clearly are not doing that on top of giving him more privileges and a boost in compensation. If that were the case, then I could understand the compensation more.

 

You have a point in the fact that the Cubs new before they came to the table that there was compensation needed. Posters here merely asked why it was necessary. Arguing that it's necessary because the Cubs already knew before hand is avoiding the debate.

Compensation is necessary because the Red Sox will be releasing a valuable, high-ranking member of their organization that they have under contract.

 

In the end it doesn't really matter if the Cubs want him to run the place or wash cars in the players' lot. In either case the Red Sox are losing his services, and that's what requires compensation.

 

I personally don't know the ins-and-outs of contract negotiations, especially ones to this degree. However, if the Sox cause considerable monetary loss (not to mention stalling career path growth) to an employee because they deny that employee from taking a job with the Cubs, I think that employee has litigation rights to help himself to that lost compensation. I may be wrong on that though.

Of course you're wrong. Epstein signed a contract with the Red Sox to be their GM. He can't turn around and sue them for asking him to honor that contract.

 

I'm not saying that the employee is entitled to some type of compensation. Merely that the employee may plead his case that he should be entitled to compensation. If that employee can prove that the decision to retain the employee was not a business decision (IE: spite), I would think there is a case there. It would be very hard to prove, but the way the Red Sox organization have been smearing Epstein, I would think there's at least a threat for litigation.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Two things

1) I don't think I've avoided any debated tonight haha

 

you came onto a message board of fans who root for the organization who sent off Lou Brock to the st louis [expletive] cardinals wanting to talk trade about the negotiations for the best gm in the mlb and you thought you would avoid a debate?

 

it didnt even occur differently to you?

 

Why else would I come here? ...okay this is the last one...I'll pop in again

 

good luck

 

well, you got it. and likewise.

[treebird]

let's cave in and add a question mark to the thread title

 

maybe the jinx gods will let us off the hook for jumping the gun

[Guest]

Davearm2:

 

The reason we're making a big deal out of it being a promotion is that Boston's owner flat out said that it is customary for there to be no compensation when a front office person goes to another team if there is a promotion involved.

[VVMattVV]

let's cave in and add a question mark to the thread title

 

maybe the jinx gods will let us off the hook for jumping the gun

 

If the jinx gods no longer have to report to the curse gods, is that a real promotion or only on paper?

[Guest]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

Glorious.

[snoodmonger]

Either way its always fun to come to another fans board and see how someone else feels about the same issue.

 

Agreed. Don't confuse the hand wringing for disgust. I think a lot of people are enjoying this thread.

 

actually, i think he's being obtuse and douchey. jmo.

[17 Seconds]

i have one question for Holldsworth's Mug aka cubsfans26-

 

Why do you want Theo Epstein so much when virtually every baseball opinion you have goes against his way of thinking?

[CyHawk_Cub]

i have one question for Holldsworth's Mug aka cubsfans26-

 

Why do you want Theo Epstein so much when virtually every baseball opinion you have goes against his way of thinking?

 

Been wondering the same thing. Someone citing things like bating avg, RBI, pitcher's wins, "fire & leadership" (or something along those lines) doesn't strike me as someone who really understand what Epstein is about

[SouthSideRyan]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

Glorious.

 

Trinidad never touched a BA top 100 list. His minor league stats below. Struggling to come up with an equivalent prospect off the top of my head, but it's not McNutt.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=trinid001hec

[Splendid Splinter]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

Glorious.

 

Trinidad never touched a BA top 100 list. His minor league stats below. Struggling to come up with an equivalent prospect off the top of my head, but it's not McNutt.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=trinid001hec

 

 

He was Cubs #10 prospect in 1994. Not sure why he wasn't more highly regarded cuz he was good at every level (beside the 24 IP at AA) and being young at each level. 6th round pick in 1991 draft. Maybe he wouldn't be top 100 prospect, but I figured he would be better than #10 in the Cubs organization in 1994 (or not making it in 92 or 93) with those numbers.

[Scotti]

Co-CEO tomorrow and nip this in the butt if they wanted to. Can't believe after 3 hours I still have to argue my main point, we go from McNutt to this...

 

I don't get your hypothetical about the Sox naming him Co-CEO. They clearly are not doing that on top of giving him more privileges and a boost in compensation. If that were the case, then I could understand the compensation more.

 

You have a point in the fact that the Cubs new before they came to the table that there was compensation needed. Posters here merely asked why it was necessary. Arguing that it's necessary because the Cubs already knew before hand is avoiding the debate.

Compensation is necessary because the Red Sox will be releasing a valuable, high-ranking member of their organization that they have under contract.

 

In the end it doesn't really matter if the Cubs want him to run the place or wash cars in the players' lot. In either case the Red Sox are losing his services, and that's what requires compensation.

 

I personally don't know the ins-and-outs of contract negotiations, especially ones to this degree. However, if the Sox cause considerable monetary loss (not to mention stalling career path growth) to an employee because they deny that employee from taking a job with the Cubs, I think that employee has litigation rights to help himself to that lost compensation. I may be wrong on that though.

Of course you're wrong. Epstein signed a contract with the Red Sox to be their GM. He can't turn around and sue them for asking him to honor that contract.

 

The Sox also have a contractual obligation to Epstein--he is their GM. If they tried to make him the "co-GM" or demote him to scout or even "promote" him to Special Assistant to the President in Charge of Pencil Sharpening (or whatever) THEN he would have a contractual beef (and win in any court).

[Scotti]

Precedent:

 

In 1994, a few weeks after agreeing to terms with Twins general manager Andy MacPhail to become the president and chief executive office, the Cubs sent Class A pitcher Hector Trinidad to the Twins as compensation.

 

If the Red Sox get anything more than a mediocre A-ball pitcher, they should be happy.

 

It will be more than a mediocre A-Ball pitcher...I think that has been established already.

 

Glad you came here--you spiced up what would have been a rather anti-climatic read... However, NOTHING has been established in terms of what type, if any, of players will be changing hands. All we have heard is what the Cubs have said "No" to (and even that isn't first hand).