What happened to the site

[SouthSideRyan]

I thought we were gonna be pretty awesome in 09 with Milton, tbh.

 

Same.

[UMFan83]

Going into 04 our offense still looked MEH at best.

 

We had Dusty preaching no clogging of the bases. We had Michael Barrett (who none of us had a clue was going to be any good - in fact, I was convinced he was terrible) starting at C. Lee didn't have any of us particularly excited, either. And we didn't know that ARam was going to be quite as good as he ended up being.

 

 

I was excited about Patterson coming back, though.

 

Geez I dunno if I agree with that. I didnt think it would be a top 5 offense but I thought it would be a good offensive team with the addition of Lee and a full season of Aramis, who I didnt think would have a .950+ ops of course but much better than Lenny Harris for most of 2003. Then a lot of people were at least somewhat high on Patterson coming back after his one good month in 2003. There were obvious issues with getting on base that of course tempered my expectations, but I didn't see the offense holding us back from getting back to the playoffs. Unfortunately, it did at times as that year's offense was so streaky, mostly because of their inability to get on base consistently.

 

Here are the 2003 OPS+'s of our offensive starters coming into 2004:

 

133 - Sosa

131 - Lee

114 - Patterson

111 - Alou

105 - Ramirez

103 - Grudz

81 - Gonzalez

71 - Barrett

 

Also, I was very excited about Lee. Not that I thought he could be a star like he was in 2005, but I figured he would be a great compliment to Sosa/Alou/Ramirez in the middle of the lineup.

[Guest]

Going into 04 our offense still looked MEH at best.

 

We had Dusty preaching no clogging of the bases. We had Michael Barrett (who none of us had a clue was going to be any good - in fact, I was convinced he was terrible) starting at C. Lee didn't have any of us particularly excited, either. And we didn't know that ARam was going to be quite as good as he ended up being.

 

 

I was excited about Patterson coming back, though.

 

Geez I dunno if I agree with that. I didnt think it would be a top 5 offense but I thought it would be a good offensive team with the addition of Lee and a full season of Aramis, who I didnt think would have a .950+ ops of course but much better than Lenny Harris for most of 2003. Then a lot of people were at least somewhat high on Patterson coming back after his one good month in 2003. There were obvious issues with getting on base that of course tempered my expectations, but I didn't see the offense holding us back from getting back to the playoffs. Unfortunately, it did at times as that year's offense was so streaky, mostly because of their inability to get on base consistently.

 

Here are the 2003 OPS+'s of our offensive starters coming into 2004:

 

133 - Sosa

131 - Lee

114 - Patterson

111 - Alou

105 - Ramirez

103 - Grudz

81 - Gonzalez

71 - Barrett

 

Also, I was very excited about Lee. Not that I thought he could be a star like he was in 2005, but I figured he would be a great compliment to Sosa/Alou/Ramirez in the middle of the lineup.

 

 

It would take an expectation of something like top 5 for me to be all that excited. Just saying.

 

I'm actually shocked that Lee's OPS+ was that high in 03. But yea, I was excited about the rotation just like 03, but I didn't expect the offense to be all that great... I was disappointed that we traded Choi for Lee, had no idea why the hell we got Barrett... was pissed that Walker wasn't starting over Grudz and I had no idea if I liked Ramirez all that much yet.

 

 

I guess that just means (re: Barrett and Lee/Choi, especially) I was wrong about a lot. But I saw C, SS, and 2B (if Walker didn't get the majority of starts) as major holes, thought 1B wasn't going to be all that great for his position, and had no idea what to expect out of Alou (turned out to be his best year).

[Sammy Sofa]

I thought we were gonna be pretty awesome in 09 with Milton, tbh.

 

Same.

 

Me too.

 

Of course, I foolishly hoped they were going to bat him #2 behind Fukudome. And that he wouldn't go bonkers.

[UMFan83]

I was willing to give Ramirez the benefit of doubt for his HR in game 5 of the NLDS and his 2 homer game, including a 1st inning grand slam in game 4 of the NLCS. At that point, I remember reading that Ramirez played hurt all season in 2002 and was likely a major cause for the awful year. In 2001 he looked like an emerging star, and in 2003 up to that point he was just 'meh'. No one expected what he'd become.

 

I liked the Choi for Lee trade because I knew Lee would likely be a defensive upgrade, and was more proven at that point than Choi. At worst he would have an .860 OPS with solid defense. He wasn't expected to be the 3 or 4 hitter, that was Sosa and Alou at the time, so he was a great piece to fit in the lineup instead of hoping that Choi would recover from his concussion and actually prove to be a capable MLB player. I did get worried when Lee started out really slow and got boo'ed in April and Choi started out red hot and was hitting tons of HRs. I remember one person on NSBB tracking the performances of Lee and Choi on their sig.

[UMFan83]

I thought we were gonna be pretty awesome in 09 with Milton, tbh.

 

Same.

 

One of the bigger disappointments as a Cub fan for me. I was so excited about what Milton could do in the heart of our lineup and drooled every time I looked at his stats from 2008.

[SouthSideRyan]

I was willing to give Ramirez the benefit of doubt for his HR in game 5 of the NLDS and his 2 homer game, including a 1st inning grand slam in game 4 of the NLCS. At that point, I remember reading that Ramirez played hurt all season in 2002 and was likely a major cause for the awful year. In 2001 he looked like an emerging star, and in 2003 up to that point he was just 'meh'. No one expected what he'd become.

 

I liked the Choi for Lee trade because I knew Lee would likely be a defensive upgrade, and was more proven at that point than Choi. At worst he would have an .860 OPS with solid defense. He wasn't expected to be the 3 or 4 hitter, that was Sosa and Alou at the time, so he was a great piece to fit in the lineup instead of hoping that Choi would recover from his concussion and actually prove to be a capable MLB player. I did get worried when Lee started out really slow and got boo'ed in April and Choi started out red hot and was hitting tons of HRs. I remember one person on NSBB tracking the performances of Lee and Choi on their sig.

 

PLUS ALL OF LEE'S DOUBLES IN MIAMI WILL TURN INTO HRS IN WRIGLEY

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

PLUS ALL OF LEE'S DOUBLES IN MIAMI WILL TURN INTO HRS IN WRIGLEY

 

I lol'd.

 

Yeah, 2008 was amazing, but it very much had this underlying "they need to win NOW" vibe. I didn't think they fall off as quick as they did, but I remember thinking that if they were going to be competitive in 2009 it was going to be by winning 85-90 games instead of 90+.

 

I had the same feeling simply because the pitching staff was full of guys who'd been around. There was no super ace horse that anchored the rotation, but a bunch of guys who could do their jobs at average to above average but not great levels. The closest to truly elite pitcher on the staff was the crazy 27/28 year old Zambrano with over 1200 IP under his belt, and Z was never an economical or very well conditioned pitcher. The next was Rich Harden, who was on the last legs of his "man if I could just stay healthy I'd be a real ace" campaign. After that it was a bunch of early-mid 30's solid types. By that I mean there were 2 of them, then Jason Marquis. Sure you could hope for a 2005 White Sox, but it was not a rotation built for sustained success...maybe if Harden was healthy, but then no way they get him that cheap.

 

I hate going to the Prior thing, but if that guy had just stayed healthy the Cubs might have been an elite team during the 2000's.

 

Sucked, because that '08 team was really awesome.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I was so pissed they traded Bobby Hill for some bad defensive 3b who was hurt all the time. And I spent all of the post-2003 offseason arguing with people about whether or not Kenny Lofton improved the offense in the stretch run.

 

Looking back at that list Tim posted, I can understand why casual fans are not impressed with the idea of building from the farm system.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I was so pissed they traded Bobby Hill for some bad defensive 3b who was hurt all the time. And I spent all of the post-2003 offseason arguing with people about whether or not Kenny Lofton improved the offense in the stretch run.

 

Looking back at that list Tim posted, I can understand why casual fans are not impressed with the idea of building from the farm system.

 

I'm not a casual fan and I think the farm system needs a little help right now. They've produced everything worth having on the ML roster (the bullpen arms, Castro, the Garza trade happened because of the farm, and Soto), and could use a little help from all that freed up money this big market team has coming off the books.

 

Another way I look at it is that it's been much longer since the Cubs picked up an impact FA bat than it's been since the farm produced an impact player. Not a good thing for a big money, big city team....

[imb]

I was so pissed they traded Bobby Hill for some bad defensive 3b who was hurt all the time. And I spent all of the post-2003 offseason arguing with people about whether or not Kenny Lofton improved the offense in the stretch run.

 

Looking back at that list Tim posted, I can understand why casual fans are not impressed with the idea of building from the farm system.

 

I spent the post-2003 offseason arguing that aramis ramirez actually sucked when he came over because of his lackluster OBP. I was in favor of the Choi for Lee trade, even though I liked Choi a lot.

[Guest]

I had a poor initial reaction to Choi for Lee.

 

I got better, though.

[rocket]

I had a poor initial reaction to Choi for Lee.

 

I got better, though.

 

we'll get you to come around on alou eventually, too.

[bukie]

I was so pissed they traded Bobby Hill for some bad defensive 3b who was hurt all the time. And I spent all of the post-2003 offseason arguing with people about whether or not Kenny Lofton improved the offense in the stretch run.

 

Looking back at that list Tim posted, I can understand why casual fans are not impressed with the idea of building from the farm system.

 

I spent the post-2003 offseason arguing that aramis ramirez actually sucked when he came over because of his lackluster OBP. I was in favor of the Choi for Lee trade, even though I liked Choi a lot.

2002 Aramis Ramirez was the worst cleanup hitter in modern history.

 

He was also playing on one leg, but that didn't stop Lloyd McClendon. He needed that bat in the Pirates' lineup if they were going to get a playoff spot.

[Guest]

I had a poor initial reaction to Choi for Lee.

 

I got better, though.

 

we'll get you to come around on alou eventually, too.

Fat chance.

[sweetpeteman]

I was so pissed they traded Bobby Hill for some bad defensive 3b who was hurt all the time. And I spent all of the post-2003 offseason arguing with people about whether or not Kenny Lofton improved the offense in the stretch run.

 

Looking back at that list Tim posted, I can understand why casual fans are not impressed with the idea of building from the farm system.

 

I spent the post-2003 offseason arguing that aramis ramirez actually sucked when he came over because of his lackluster OBP. I was in favor of the Choi for Lee trade, even though I liked Choi a lot.

2002 Aramis Ramirez was the worst cleanup hitter in modern history.

 

He was also playing on one leg, but that didn't stop Lloyd McClendon. He needed that bat in the Pirates' lineup if they were going to get a playoff spot.

 

 

I read that and thought, huh, the article is from 2008. I bet someone in Seattle has beaten that in the last 3 years.

 

 

 

I was right.

 

 

Jose Lopez 2010 (OPS+: 71) as 4th place batter: 377 PA .239/.263/.339 for an OPS of .602. 26 XBH.

 

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lopezjo01.shtml

[NonProfitCow]

2004

 

Murderers Throw

 

 

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2011/3/18/1/enhanced-buzz-15854-1300424464-1.jpg

 

[XZero771679666304]

2004

 

Murderers Throw

 

 

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2011/3/18/1/enhanced-buzz-15854-1300424464-1.jpg

 

Bastard.

 

Wood/Prior/Zambrano/Clement/Maddux

 

That was (would have been) a disgusting rotation, easily on par with the 2011 Phillies, imo. Had the whole thing not gone to hell in a handbasket.

 

But that's why they play the games, I guess.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Wood/Prior/Zambrano/Clement/Maddux

 

That was (would have been) a disgusting rotation, easily on par with the 2011 Phillies, imo. Had the whole thing not gone to hell in a handbasket.

 

But that's why they play the games, I guess.

I remember buying a framed poster with the 2004 pitching staff (minus Clement) on it thinking it would be something special that would hang in my house for years to come. I'm not sure I even have the poster anymore, but if I do it is buried in my storage shed along with my laminated Mark Prior "Chicago Hope or Hype" Baseball Weekly cover. Such high expectations and disappointing memories...

[Sammy Sofa]

Wood/Prior/Zambrano/Clement/Maddux

 

That was (would have been) a disgusting rotation, easily on par with the 2011 Phillies, imo. Had the whole thing not gone to hell in a handbasket.

 

But that's why they play the games, I guess.

I remember buying a framed poster with the 2004 pitching staff (minus Clement) on it thinking it would be something special that would hang in my house for years to come. I'm not sure I even have the poster anymore, but if I do it is buried in my storage shed along with my laminated Mark Prior "Chicago Hope or Hype" Baseball Weekly cover. Such high expectations and disappointing memories...

 

[expletive], if you don't want the former anymore I'll buy it off of you.

[Guest]

I don't understand why they excluded Clement.

[El Duderino]

2004 ended being clement's best year, too. He must have gotten horrible support though, http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemema01.shtml

[17 Seconds]

2004 ended being clement's best year, too. He must have gotten horrible support though, http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemema01.shtml

 

he had a 10 game stretch where his ERA was under 3 and he went 1-6

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's going to be fun at the end of the Epstein Era when we can look back and reminisce on seasons that actually ended reasonably well.

[Guest]

It's going to be fun at the end of the Epstein Era when we can look back and reminisce on seasons that actually ended reasonably well.

 

 

What's the gray area between 03 and winning the [expletive] World Series that qualifies as reasonably well?