What happened to the site

[jersey cubs fan]

 

The irony is that the mean or agressive posters are often mean or agressive toward the morons or meatballs that they want to go away. While sometimes it may work, more often than not, they are just getting into a drawn out debate with the poster that they simply want to go away, when in reality, if they wanted them to go away, the best way to go would be to stop responding to them.

 

Yeah, sometimes the bullying people into going away works, but I am often perplexed by how many people argue ad nauseum with people who only want to argue. If you know getting into it with a particular person will only precipitate an endless and circuitous argument, why bother? Sometimes ignoring the problem is the solution.

 

Agreed, how do you foe someone anyway. I have a few people I could do without.

 

click on the profile button and hit foe

[imb]

Maybe there's no way to do it if the team isn't exciting, but I do know that sporcle and the ducross brothers are not going to keep interest high. That's the reason we have three page game threads where it's just Fred posting walls of stats. Not because erik's an idiot or people are mean.

 

Just to clarify, you think game threads are short because of sporcle?

 

Uhh, no. Is that what you really took from that (rhetorical question, I know it's not)?

 

I really don't get what you are saying.

 

You seem to be refuting the notion that the board has struggled because of the Cubs struggles and placing the blame mostly on the decision to try out a couple failed side projects.

 

No, I'm not. I'm saying it's a combo. Pretend to not get it again though so I can say it a few more times.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe there's no way to do it if the team isn't exciting, but I do know that sporcle and the ducross brothers are not going to keep interest high. That's the reason we have three page game threads where it's just Fred posting walls of stats. Not because erik's an idiot or people are mean.

 

Just to clarify, you think game threads are short because of sporcle?

 

Uhh, no. Is that what you really took from that (rhetorical question, I know it's not)?

 

I really don't get what you are saying.

 

You seem to be refuting the notion that the board has struggled because of the Cubs struggles and placing the blame mostly on the decision to try out a couple failed side projects.

 

No, I'm not. I'm saying it's a combo. Pretend to not get it again though so I can say it a few more times.

 

I'm not pretending anything. I just don't get what you are trying to say. The way you wrote that was confusing. And I still don't get how failed side projects affected the way people post here.

[XZero771679666304]

 

The irony is that the mean or agressive posters are often mean or agressive toward the morons or meatballs that they want to go away. While sometimes it may work, more often than not, they are just getting into a drawn out debate with the poster that they simply want to go away, when in reality, if they wanted them to go away, the best way to go would be to stop responding to them.

 

Yeah, sometimes the bullying people into going away works, but I am often perplexed by how many people argue ad nauseum with people who only want to argue. If you know getting into it with a particular person will only precipitate an endless and circuitous argument, why bother? Sometimes ignoring the problem is the solution.

 

Agreed, how do you foe someone anyway. I have a few people I could do without.

 

It's largely worthless. You can't see the original post, but you can see it's contents every time someone quotes it.

 

You just have to condition yourself to ignore certain posters.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's largely worthless. You can't see the original post, but you can see it's contents every time someone quotes it.

 

I find it very useful myself.

[Vinestal]

It's largely worthless. You can't see the original post, but you can see it's contents every time someone quotes it.

 

I find it very useful myself.

Doubtful, it seems you never miss an opportuity for conflict.

[imb]

I'm not pretending anything. I just don't get what you are trying to say.

 

A real shame for you because it was good stuff.

[XZero771679666304]

It's largely worthless. You can't see the original post, but you can see it's contents every time someone quotes it.

 

I find it very useful myself.

 

 

I don't even bother. I just tune some people out (or try to). I tried it out, but while I might have missed the initial post that would have pissed me off, it invariably pissed off someone else who then quoted it, displaying it for me to see and then be pissed off by it.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's largely worthless. You can't see the original post, but you can see it's contents every time someone quotes it.

 

I find it very useful myself.

Doubtful, it seems you never miss an opportuity for conflict.

 

I find it amusing that you have essentially tried insulting me repeatedly while complaining about how people treat others. I've got a good half dozen names on the list who I can easily avoid. If there is a discussion where I feel like they may not be an idiot, I can still read specific posts to test the waters. That's leading me to probably taking one of those guys off the list.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's largely worthless. You can't see the original post, but you can see it's contents every time someone quotes it.

 

I find it very useful myself.

 

 

I don't even bother. I just tune some people out (or try to). I tried it out, but while I might have missed the initial post that would have pissed me off, it invariably pissed off someone else who then quoted it, displaying it for me to see and then be pissed off by it.

 

A veritable piss spiral.

[XZero771679666304]

It's largely worthless. You can't see the original post, but you can see it's contents every time someone quotes it.

 

I find it very useful myself.

 

 

I don't even bother. I just tune some people out (or try to). I tried it out, but while I might have missed the initial post that would have pissed me off, it invariably pissed off someone else who then quoted it, displaying it for me to see and then be pissed off by it.

 

A veritable piss spiral.

 

Indeed.

[Vinestal]

It's largely worthless. You can't see the original post, but you can see it's contents every time someone quotes it.

 

I find it very useful myself.

Doubtful, it seems you never miss an opportuity for conflict.

 

I find it amusing that you have essentially tried insulting me repeatedly while complaining about how people treat others. I've got a good half dozen names on the list who I can easily avoid. If there is a discussion where I feel like they may not be an idiot, I can still read specific posts to test the waters. That's leading me to probably taking one of those guys off the list.

 

Wow, and I find it amusing that you think someone calling you out on how you treat others an insult. I'm done with you, enjoy chasing someone else into oblivion.

[glavine93]

It's like a cliquey band of meanspirited teenage girls around here.

 

I don't know anything about anything, but after the last few pages of this thread I think the "meanspirited teenage girls" of the world deserve a serious apology

[SpongeWorthy]

I'd like to see the traffic numbers for baseball message boards in general. The NFL sucks up most of the available oxygen, college football gets bigger every year, the NBA is as good as its ever been, hockey is less of a basket case these days, and soccer is staring to make some hay in the US.

 

There's a diminishing interest in the sport as a whole if you look at how many kids are taking it up.

[Vinestal]

It's like a cliquey band of meanspirited teenage girls around here.

 

I don't know anything about anything, but after the last few pages of this thread I think the "meanspirited teenage girls" of the world deserve a serious apology

 

Lol I agree

[NOLA]

It's like a cliquey band of meanspirited teenage girls around here.

 

I don't know anything about anything, but after the last few pages of this thread I think the "meanspirited teenage girls" of the world deserve a serious apology

[SpongeWorthy]

Also, this is kind of a stretch, but it's almost like baseball is moving towards something where you know if you just input some numbers you know how it'll play out. Watch when the supercomputers solve chess the whole game will die unless big changes are made (e.g. Fischer Random Chess where people play with random openings so the guy who memorizes a zillion opening variations isn't the best).

 

Sabermetrics is a great tool but fuzzy math and ignorance does foster (bad, misinformed) discussion. And (bad, misinformed) discussion means traffic.

[UMFan83]

Just to clarify, you think game threads are short because of sporcle?

 

Uhh, no. Is that what you really took from that (rhetorical question, I know it's not)?

 

I really don't get what you are saying.

 

You seem to be refuting the notion that the board has struggled because of the Cubs struggles and placing the blame mostly on the decision to try out a couple failed side projects.

 

No, I'm not. I'm saying it's a combo. Pretend to not get it again though so I can say it a few more times.

 

I'm not pretending anything. I just don't get what you are trying to say. The way you wrote that was confusing. And I still don't get how failed side projects affected the way people post here.

 

I don't think its a direct correlation but there's some merit to it. One example. In 2009, Tim put a lot of his spare time and energy into his 312sports venture. Part of that venture was a message board with forums for all Chicago sports teams, including the Cubs. Tim and a couple of other people were actively posting in those forums for sometime trying to generate discussion to the website. Now Tim did make an effort to try to get NSBB and 312sports to co-mingle or even assimilate into 1, but clearly Tim's attention was to making 312sports work, and not as much on NSBB. Meanwhile, for over a year the new registrants feature was broken, leading to no new members.

 

I respect Tim greatly for everything he's done for the forum, as I alluded to previously in this thread. Even through the 312sports phase, he was still paying server fees, working on forum upgrades and he made no attempt to kill of NSBB in favor of his 312sports forum, which if you think about it competed for at least some of the same traffic. But I did get the feeling that we were just left twirling in the wind for awhile while our founder was trying to replace his original vision of NSBB. I dunno I could be way off base by suggesting the new registrant feature was left neglected because Tim was too busy focusing on 312sports. I have no idea what the thought patterns were behind the scenes, other that what I read on here or discuss with other posters in private.

 

Anyways, so that's an example of how Tim's side projects have hurt traffic on the site, at least in terms of generating new users at least.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Also, this is kind of a stretch, but it's almost like baseball is moving towards something where you know if you just input some numbers you know how it'll play out. Watch when the supercomputers solve chess the whole game will die unless big changes are made (e.g. Fischer Random Chess where people play with random openings so the guy who memorizes a zillion opening variations isn't the best).

 

Sabermetrics is a great tool but fuzzy math and ignorance does foster (bad, misinformed) discussion. And (bad, misinformed) discussion means traffic.

 

Sidetrack, but we are nowhere near computers solving chess.

[SpongeWorthy]

Also, this is kind of a stretch, but it's almost like baseball is moving towards something where you know if you just input some numbers you know how it'll play out. Watch when the supercomputers solve chess the whole game will die unless big changes are made (e.g. Fischer Random Chess where people play with random openings so the guy who memorizes a zillion opening variations isn't the best).

 

Sabermetrics is a great tool but fuzzy math and ignorance does foster (bad, misinformed) discussion. And (bad, misinformed) discussion means traffic.

 

Sidetrack, but we are nowhere near computers solving chess.

 

True and I'm no chess guru but aren't a lot of Kasparov types already calling for a move towards randomized chess or having GMs play WITH computers against other GMs playing with computers so memorizing every opening isn't the name of the game?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm going to offer my two cents.

 

First of all, I think a lot of the boom of this site coincided with the Cubs becoming increasingly popular. In 2003, I started looking to the internet for a Cubs message board and first found ESPN before gravitating here.

 

At the same time, NSBB benefited from having people who were located and later were able to gain access to some of the minor league teams and build relationships there. DJaxxfann(Chris) was probably most influential in this. To my knowledge, the relationship we developed there which led to some Q&A's with Cubs players and really nice access was coincedental, but it was focused on Chris and his efforts. Once the Cubs moved affiliations and life or whatever led Chris away from the site, that access dried up without someone who could push it on a local level. That was one of the things that made the site unique.

 

Having personalities like Len Kasper stop by and do a Q&A along with the minor leaguers was great. I agree with JR when he says a lot of times fans flock to message boards to get first hand accounts of spring training games and Cubs Convention. That however takes a lot of resources to make sure happens. Some of it happening here was just by chance. Posters went to these events and shared. We had posters who attended games in minor league cities who shared what they knew and those relationships led to access and information that wasn't readily available elsewhere.

 

I don't know if there's a way to get all that back without a comprehensive plan that would require a great deal of time, effort, and resources. Fact of it remains, what NSBB was it may never be again. As a poster, we can either accept that and continue to post or move on elsewhere.

 

So, the reason the site has changed is probably a combination of things. Some of these could likely have been avoided...others not so much.

[XZero771679666304]

Also, this is kind of a stretch, but it's almost like baseball is moving towards something where you know if you just input some numbers you know how it'll play out. Watch when the supercomputers solve chess the whole game will die unless big changes are made (e.g. Fischer Random Chess where people play with random openings so the guy who memorizes a zillion opening variations isn't the best).

 

Sabermetrics is a great tool but fuzzy math and ignorance does foster (bad, misinformed) discussion. And (bad, misinformed) discussion means traffic.

 

I definitely lean heavily towards the saber side, but at the same time I'm perplexed by how some people treat analysis as if the game is played in a vacuum by automatons. It's kind of a backlash against antiquated criteria like chemistry, grit and the W/L/AVG/RBI/etc. stat base. I definitely think those things have been proven to be largely superfluous (I think people who still treat them as gospel are the baseball equivalent of the flat earth society), but the extremes some folks take the application of advanced statistical analysis to is a bit too far.

 

Some of the stats (especially defensive metrics) are still really hazy.

[SpongeWorthy]

Also, this is kind of a stretch, but it's almost like baseball is moving towards something where you know if you just input some numbers you know how it'll play out. Watch when the supercomputers solve chess the whole game will die unless big changes are made (e.g. Fischer Random Chess where people play with random openings so the guy who memorizes a zillion opening variations isn't the best).

 

Sabermetrics is a great tool but fuzzy math and ignorance does foster (bad, misinformed) discussion. And (bad, misinformed) discussion means traffic.

 

I definitely lean heavily towards the saber side, but at the same time I'm perplexed by how some people treat analysis as if the game is played in a vacuum by automatons. It's kind of a backlash against antiquated criteria like chemistry, grit and the W/L/AVG/RBI/etc. stat base. I definitely think those things have been proven to be largely superfluous (I think people who still treat them as gospel are the baseball equivalent of the flat earth society), but the extremes some folks take the application of advanced statistical analysis to is a bit too far.

 

Some of the stats (especially defensive metrics) are still really hazy.

 

Yeah but it's not like we're rehashing the value of OBP debate. That book has been closed. Obviously there are some dopes who still cling to chemistry and counting stats and all that (usually not the ones who would go out of their way to find a team specific message board) but the stats discussion is being changed at the margins. Now you need a stats background just to follow the latest stuff.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Also, this is kind of a stretch, but it's almost like baseball is moving towards something where you know if you just input some numbers you know how it'll play out. Watch when the supercomputers solve chess the whole game will die unless big changes are made (e.g. Fischer Random Chess where people play with random openings so the guy who memorizes a zillion opening variations isn't the best).

 

Sabermetrics is a great tool but fuzzy math and ignorance does foster (bad, misinformed) discussion. And (bad, misinformed) discussion means traffic.

 

Sidetrack, but we are nowhere near computers solving chess.

 

True and I'm no chess guru but aren't a lot of Kasparov types already calling for a move towards randomized chess or having GMs play WITH computers against other GMs playing with computers so memorizing every opening isn't the name of the game?

 

Fischer was a huge proponent of randomizing the starting positions to take away from opening prep. And opening prep is a *huge* part of the modern game at the grandmaster level, to the point a lot of people would like to see that changed.

[erik316wttn]

the site started out small, then blew up when the cubs got on a little run and people realized that cubs.com sucked. so tim and co. tried to monetize and overly legislate the place, it got stale and when the cubs fell apart, interest just sort of faded away. When interest is high, people are more willing to shell out cash and check out a new site, but the cubs suck and this place is totally sterile, so what would be the point of coming here unless you already have an established reason to do so? If you want to talk about the cubs, there are dozens of places better suited for it than a website with an absentee creator starting and abandoning 4 or 5 new ideas a year and a 500-1 social to cubs post ratio.

 

Or its the fact that at one point around here the moderators actually kept discussions on topic (which they still do to a point) and actually did something about personal attacks (instead of participating in them). At some point that stopped, good threads turned into flamewars, and the posters who actually made the biggest and best contributions to this site left and it's been downhill since.

 

This used to be a site for intelligent baseball discussion-- and on a lesser level still is. Now it's more a clique-y group of immature idiots flaming everyone they don't like *cough* and dragging discussions down to their level. However, being the stubborn fool I am, I'm going to be around forever.