College Basketball 2011-2012

[Bruno7481]

.

 

Recruiting base, History, Fan support.

 

In that order.

 

Ok then, so how does Louisville not have an advantage over Illinois using that criteria?

[SouthSideRyan]

.

 

 

Ok then, so how does Louisville not have an advantage over Illinois using that criteria?

 

I never weighed in one way or another.

 

IL definitely has a better recruiting base, but my amended list would seem to pretty clearly put Louisville ahead.

[SpongeWorthy]

I don't understand what's going on here but it seems to me that illiniguy is grasping at straws

How? I think its a top 15 program. Even if all of the teams on abucks list were better than us. That still puts us at 15. I mean sure his list is awful, he didn't include Indiana in it, but even using it we are right at 15.

 

Clearly the job isn't that great otherwise they wouldn't have crapped the bed on the coaching search, but you keep changing conversations between historical rankings, current ratings and how good the job is.

By getting our third choice? Did Gunether crap the bed when he got Self? Because he wasn't his first choice. We still got a young coach that was in demand and would have been in more demand in one year.

 

Self and Weber were definitely hotter candidates than Groce is at the time they were hired by Illinois weren't they?

[jersey cubs fan]

By getting our third choice? Did Gunether crap the bed when he got Self? Because he wasn't his first choice. We still got a young coach that was in demand and would have been in more demand in one year.

 

They crapped the bed. I mean, come on. It was an embarrassing process that they wouldn't have had to endure if the job was so great.

 

Getting a young coach in demand is hardly an accomplishment, it's like the baseline for where you'd start the process.

[Guest]

How does Louisville have a recruiting base advantage over Illinois?

 

(btw - I have to say I forgot about their arena and the $ it generates when I mentioned them in the first place)

[illiniguy]

I don't understand what's going on here but it seems to me that illiniguy is grasping at straws

How? I think its a top 15 program. Even if all of the teams on abucks list were better than us. That still puts us at 15. I mean sure his list is awful, he didn't include Indiana in it, but even using it we are right at 15.

 

Clearly the job isn't that great otherwise they wouldn't have crapped the bed on the coaching search, but you keep changing conversations between historical rankings, current ratings and how good the job is.

By getting our third choice? Did Gunether crap the bed when he got Self? Because he wasn't his first choice. We still got a young coach that was in demand and would have been in more demand in one year.

 

Self and Weber were definitely hotter candidates than Groce is at the time they were hired by Illinois weren't they?

I really don't remember on Self. I was playing ball myself and not really following. I would say no on Weber. A ton of people I lived around at the time hated the hire.

[SpongeWorthy]

.

 

 

Ok then, so how does Louisville not have an advantage over Illinois using that criteria?

 

I never weighed in one way or another.

 

IL definitely has a better recruiting base, but my amended list would seem to pretty clearly put Louisville ahead.

 

Louisville had the good fortune of being able to hire a Hall of Fame coach who wanted to stick it his former blue blood program. Outside of that, Illinois is a better job, IMO.

[bukie]

 

Recruiting base, History, Fan support.

 

In that order.

 

Ok then, so how does Louisville not have an advantage over Illinois using that criteria?

Illinois has a better recruiting base, slightly less history, and comparatively equal fan support.

 

The argument for Louisville as a better job than Illinois has more to do with the history of the program, a lot more than who is currently the coach (and can we give Groce at least a season or two before we call him an abject failure?)

[illiniguy]

By getting our third choice? Did Gunether crap the bed when he got Self? Because he wasn't his first choice. We still got a young coach that was in demand and would have been in more demand in one year.

 

They crapped the bed. I mean, come on. It was an embarrassing process that they wouldn't have had to endure if the job was so great.

 

Getting a young coach in demand is hardly an accomplishment, it's like the baseline for where you'd start the process.

They missed on Smart and Stevens. Two longshots. They then got the next guy I would have wanted. I really don't think they crapped the bed at all.

[Bruno7481]

How does Louisville have a recruiting base advantage over Illinois?

 

(btw - I have to say I forgot about their arena and the $ it generates when I mentioned them in the first place)

 

Your base is only effective if you are using it. Louisville has pulled many kids from the Chicago, New York/NJ area.

 

Again, I'm not a fan of them at all, but I think they are clearly a better job.

[Bruno7481]

 

Recruiting base, History, Fan support.

 

In that order.

 

Ok then, so how does Louisville not have an advantage over Illinois using that criteria?

Illinois has a better recruiting base, slightly less history, and comparatively equal fan support.

 

The argument for Louisville as a better job than Illinois has more to do with the history of the program, a lot more than who is currently the coach (and can we give Groce at least a season or two before we call him an abject failure?)

 

I may be biased based on where I live, but I can't imagine there being many comparable fan bases to Louisville and UK. That state cares about nothing else.

 

Their facilities dwarf Illinois, and pretty much all other Div 1 programs as well.

 

I liked the hire by the way.

[jersey cubs fan]

By getting our third choice? Did Gunether crap the bed when he got Self? Because he wasn't his first choice. We still got a young coach that was in demand and would have been in more demand in one year.

 

They crapped the bed. I mean, come on. It was an embarrassing process that they wouldn't have had to endure if the job was so great.

 

Getting a young coach in demand is hardly an accomplishment, it's like the baseline for where you'd start the process.

They missed on Smart and Stevens. Two longshots. They then got the next guy I would have wanted. I really don't think they crapped the bed at all.

 

I guess that's understandable from somebody who wants it to be true, but there isn't an objective person in the country who agrees with you. They missed out on two guys they should have easily been able to hire if their job was so great. And they missed out in very public fashion after clearly going after guys.

[bukie]

 

Recruiting base, History, Fan support.

 

In that order.

 

Ok then, so how does Louisville not have an advantage over Illinois using that criteria?

Illinois has a better recruiting base, slightly less history, and comparatively equal fan support.

 

The argument for Louisville as a better job than Illinois has more to do with the history of the program, a lot more than who is currently the coach (and can we give Groce at least a season or two before we call him an abject failure?)

 

I may be biased based on where I live, but I can't imagine there being many comparable fan bases to Louisville and UK. That state cares about nothing else.

 

Their facilities dwarf Illinois, and pretty much all other Div 1 programs as well.

 

I liked the hire by the way.

Well, yeah, but he didn't list facilities as one of his criteria, which admittedly helps Illinois' credentials.

 

It's also why they're spending so much to upgrade the facilities in the "near future" (as stated by Thomas yesterday).

[snoodmonger]

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas, Indiana, UCLA, Michigan State, Ohio State, UConn, Florida, Michigan, Texas, Georgetown, Louisville, Syracuse

 

Arizona

[illiniguy]

By getting our third choice? Did Gunether crap the bed when he got Self? Because he wasn't his first choice. We still got a young coach that was in demand and would have been in more demand in one year.

 

They crapped the bed. I mean, come on. It was an embarrassing process that they wouldn't have had to endure if the job was so great.

 

Getting a young coach in demand is hardly an accomplishment, it's like the baseline for where you'd start the process.

They missed on Smart and Stevens. Two longshots. They then got the next guy I would have wanted. I really don't think they crapped the bed at all.

 

I guess that's understandable from somebody who wants it to be true, but there isn't an objective person in the country who agrees with you. They missed out on two guys they should have easily been able to hire if their job was so great. And they missed out in very public fashion after clearly going after guys.

I don't think Stevens is leaving unless he gets the Indiana job. Smart we missed on, I really wanted him and am not sure why he didn't take the job. I think that the whole thing was overblown as this is a major job that was being filled in the social network era. Most of the leaks and reports were off of random people on twitter.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas, Indiana, UCLA, Michigan State, Ohio State, UConn, Florida, Michigan, Texas, Georgetown, Louisville, Syracuse

 

Arizona

They would have been my 16th.

[Guest]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Florida: From a recruiting perspective, Florida is a football state and doesn't generate the hoops talent that Chicago does. Both programs are flush with cash. SEC? Hoops? Right. Florida was nothing in hoops until Donovan got there. While they've certainly had more success under him than Illinois has had during that time, I'm not sure that's a better job once he leaves. For fan support...once again, football will always be first there.

 

Georgetown: The Baltimore/DC/North VA area definitely produces talent, though not quite on par with Chicago. The basketball program is well-funded, but the athletics program as a whole suffers from a lack of football. The Big East is a hot mess right now and getting worse rapidly. I'll concede program history over the past 30-40 years on this one. I don't think there's a significant difference in fan support.

 

Marquette: Definitely behind in mining the Chicago base. The program generates money, but not quite on a par with Illinois and again the lack of football hurts here. Big east issues again. The program history is no better than Illinois. Fan support is probably a wash, also.

 

Texas: See Florida, but add $$$$ and take away Donovan's success.

[NewUserName]

 

Self and Weber were definitely hotter candidates than Groce is at the time they were hired by Illinois weren't they?

 

Funny saying this but Kruger was probably a more sexy hire than either of these 2 at the time. Kruger was in a hard to win situation with Jimmy Collins around. I think a lot of people thought that Self's success at Tulsa was still some holdover from Tubby Smith. Weber was not Illinois first choice, but I do not remember who all was considered, I think there was a lot of talk about Sampson at the time.

[illiniguy]

 

Self and Weber were definitely hotter candidates than Groce is at the time they were hired by Illinois weren't they?

 

Funny saying this but Kruger was probably a more sexy hire than either of these 2 at the time. Kruger was in a hard to win situation with Jimmy Collins around. I think a lot of people thought that Self's success at Tulsa was still some holdover from Tubby Smith. Weber was not Illinois first choice, but I do not remember who all was considered, I think there was a lot of talk about Sampson at the time.

Sampson was when we hired Self.

[jersey cubs fan]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Much of this stuff is quite arbitrarily judged. And it really doesn't matter that Chicago produces a lot of talent if none of it wants to play in the wasteland of Champaign, Illinois.

[illiniguy]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Much of this stuff is quite arbitrarily judged. And it really doesn't matter that Chicago produces a lot of talent if none of it wants to play in the wasteland of Champaign, Illinois.

We just got 4 of the top 6 kids from Chicago in 2011. In 2010 we got Mr. Basketball from there and another 4 star. In 2009 we also got Mr. Basketball from a suberb of Chicago. That's not exactly "no one wanting to come to the wasteland of Champaign."

Edited March 30, 2012 by illiniguy

[snoodmonger]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Florida: From a recruiting perspective, Florida is a football state and doesn't generate the hoops talent that Chicago does. Both programs are flush with cash. SEC? Hoops? Right. Florida was nothing in hoops until Donovan got there. While they've certainly had more success under him than Illinois has had during that time, I'm not sure that's a better job once he leaves. For fan support...once again, football will always be first there.

 

Georgetown: The Baltimore/DC/North VA area definitely produces talent, though not quite on par with Chicago. The basketball program is well-funded, but the athletics program as a whole suffers from a lack of football. The Big East is a hot mess right now and getting worse rapidly. I'll concede program history over the past 30-40 years on this one. I don't think there's a significant difference in fan support.

 

Marquette: Definitely behind in mining the Chicago base. The program generates money, but not quite on a par with Illinois and again the lack of football hurts here. Big east issues again. The program history is no better than Illinois. Fan support is probably a wash, also.

 

Texas: See Florida, but add $$$$ and take away Donovan's success.

 

There's a lot of basketball talent in Texas.

[SouthSideRyan]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

[Bruno7481]

 

Self and Weber were definitely hotter candidates than Groce is at the time they were hired by Illinois weren't they?

 

Funny saying this but Kruger was probably a more sexy hire than either of these 2 at the time. Kruger was in a hard to win situation with Jimmy Collins around. I think a lot of people thought that Self's success at Tulsa was still some holdover from Tubby Smith. Weber was not Illinois first choice, but I do not remember who all was considered, I think there was a lot of talk about Sampson at the time.

Sampson was when we hired Self.

 

Damn...should have hired him.

[Guest]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Florida: From a recruiting perspective, Florida is a football state and doesn't generate the hoops talent that Chicago does. Both programs are flush with cash. SEC? Hoops? Right. Florida was nothing in hoops until Donovan got there. While they've certainly had more success under him than Illinois has had during that time, I'm not sure that's a better job once he leaves. For fan support...once again, football will always be first there.

 

Georgetown: The Baltimore/DC/North VA area definitely produces talent, though not quite on par with Chicago. The basketball program is well-funded, but the athletics program as a whole suffers from a lack of football. The Big East is a hot mess right now and getting worse rapidly. I'll concede program history over the past 30-40 years on this one. I don't think there's a significant difference in fan support.

 

Marquette: Definitely behind in mining the Chicago base. The program generates money, but not quite on a par with Illinois and again the lack of football hurts here. Big east issues again. The program history is no better than Illinois. Fan support is probably a wash, also.

 

Texas: See Florida, but add $$$$ and take away Donovan's success.

 

There's a lot of basketball talent in Texas.

glad you agree on everything else. :good: