College Basketball 2011-2012

[Smack]

Next year will definitely be better now that they got rid of Watford.

 

They're one Zeller away from a bottom third finish. Hopefully he wises up and cashes in.

he will be there all 4 years.

 

Then he's as dumb as he looks. I guess if he blows out a knee his big bro can throw him some cash.

I don't think he will leave early barring an IU title. The Zellers stay in school. Plus I don't think his game will translate all that well to the NBA.

 

He would be a lottery pick. Some projections have him going in the top 5-6. Take the money and run!

[CubColtPacer]

Next year will definitely be better now that they got rid of Watford.

 

They're one Zeller away from a bottom third finish. Hopefully he wises up and cashes in.

 

I doubt even losing Zeller would send IU to bottom 3rd. Probably 6th or 7th (which is still a steep drop from the 1st-3rd that they'll be likely be predicted to finish otherwise). The 2012 team without Zeller or Watford would be young, talented, and would severely lack size. How many minutes Perea and Jurkin were ready to contribute as freshman would go a long way in figuring out how good they could be. They'd still be very talented at the 1-3 positions, but they'd probably have to play a lot of 3 guard and 4 guard lineups in that scenario. Of course, that's all hypothetical because I don't think Zeller is leaving.

[SouthSideRyan]

Next year will definitely be better now that they got rid of Watford.

 

They're one Zeller away from a bottom third finish. Hopefully he wises up and cashes in.

he will be there all 4 years.

 

Then he's as dumb as he looks. I guess if he blows out a knee his big bro can throw him some cash.

I don't think he will leave early barring an IU title. The Zellers stay in school. Plus I don't think his game will translate all that well to the NBA.

 

Luke Zeller stayed in school because he sucked. Tyler wasn't any good until his junior year.

Edited March 30, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[SouthSideRyan]

Next year will definitely be better now that they got rid of Watford.

 

They're one Zeller away from a bottom third finish. Hopefully he wises up and cashes in.

 

I don't know, Gary Harris is probably going to be an impact freshman.

[Sosa21MVP]

I could see Cody going pro for the 2013 draft. I don't think Luke and Tyler's decisions to be 4 year players means much in regards to what Cody will do, at least from the standpoint that Cody's draft stock early in his career is way beyond what the other two experienced.

[Magnetic Curses]

Luke Zeller stayed in school because he sucked. Tyler wasn't any good until his junior year.

 

that luke zeller, he sure had patience, didn't he?

[illiniguy]

Luke Zeller stayed in school because he sucked. Tyler wasn't any good until his junior year.

 

that luke zeller, he sure had patience, didn't he?

One of the few Weber misses that I'm glad happened.

[XZero771679666304]

Well, that was an interesting few pages. When thinking about what constitutes a "great job", I would assess based on how successful a program can likely be with the resources at hand. Being as objective as I can be, it's hard to look at Illinois' recruiting base, fan base, history and revenue and say it isn't a top 10-15 job.

 

The fact that Weber crapped the bed for the past 9 years (I like the guy, but I can't give him too much credit for 2004-06) doesn't change the fact that Illinois has resources to draw from that the overwhelming majority of programs do not.

 

That Smart and Stevens turn UI down isn't a valid way to gauge the value of the job. That's just stupid. Stevens wasn't going anywhere and by all accounts Smart's decision had much to do with doubts over being able to recruit the CPL. Both are beloved, comfortable and already well paid where they are. As SSR pointed out, even blue bloods like UNC and UK have had to work down their list of candidates in recent years.

 

The program's rep certainly isn't at its peak, but from a "what can I realistically do with this program" point of view, it has to be a top 10-15 job. Is it on the level of UNC, Kentucky, Kansas or Duke? Obviously not. Is it even where it was 6-7 years ago? Probably not. But it is a very, very good job.

 

That's why analysts (not just loony Illini fans) called the UI job a top 10 job and said Smart "couldn't turn it down" or "would be crazy to turn it down", etc., etc.

 

As for Groce, my increased optimism has more to do with what others (colleagues, analysts, potential recruits) have had to say about him than with what he has said.

[Derwood]

If Illinois recruited at the same level that it does now, but has a coach that used the players correctly, they'll be fine. Having Weber around to coach guys like McCamey from a lottery pick to an undrafted FA is inexcusable.

[SouthSideRyan]

McCamey's a really poor example of Weber's poor coaching.

[XZero771679666304]

McCamey's a really poor example of Weber's poor coaching.

 

Yeah, McCamey seemed to disintegrate on his own for the most part.

 

This entire past season put all of Weber's weaknesses on full display. It was a veritable symphony of incompetence. Poor discipline (by all indications), poor roster management and some of the worst in game coaching I've ever seen. Weber was seemingly incapable of adjusting strategy to fit personnel which has always been a problem, but never as glaringly so as this year.

[illiniguy]

McCamey's a really poor example of Weber's poor coaching.

 

Yeah, McCamey seemed to disintegrate on his own for the most part.

 

This entire past season put all of Weber's weaknesses on full display. It was a veritable symphony of incompetence. Poor discipline (by all indications), poor roster management and some of the worst in game coaching I've ever seen. Weber was seemingly incapable of adjusting strategy to fit personnel which has always been a problem, but never as glaringly so as this year.

This year really snowballed on him. I thought after the Ohio State game he might actually get some momentum and figure things out. He didn't at all, in fact that was probably his last hurrah.

[Sosa21MVP]

If Groce is the absolute right guy and has great success, does he stick around long-term? Fair or not, the way Kruger and Self left Illinois I just wonder about that. Different situations for sure...Henson stuck around for a long time but after his Final Four team he kind of hit a plateau of sorts.

[illiniguy]

If Groce is the absolute right guy and has great success, does he stick around long-term? Fair or not, the way Kruger and Self left Illinois I just wonder about that. Different situations for sure...Henson stuck around for a long time but after his Final Four team he kind of hit a plateau of sorts.

Well he grew up a fan of Indiana and you seem to be covered. He says he's a big Ten guy, has been a fan his whole life. I really don't see him leaving here on his choice, but who knows.

[XZero771679666304]

McCamey's a really poor example of Weber's poor coaching.

 

Yeah, McCamey seemed to disintegrate on his own for the most part.

 

This entire past season put all of Weber's weaknesses on full display. It was a veritable symphony of incompetence. Poor discipline (by all indications), poor roster management and some of the worst in game coaching I've ever seen. Weber was seemingly incapable of adjusting strategy to fit personnel which has always been a problem, but never as glaringly so as this year.

This year really snowballed on him. I thought after the Ohio State game he might actually get some momentum and figure things out. He didn't at all, in fact that was probably his last hurrah.

 

I thought we were in trouble after the OSU game. The team had been skating by in many of their wins, not operating the way they should (not running the "offense" through Leonard) and while the win was nice, Paul dropping 43 in a performance he could never repeat was a bad omen. Weber should have kept BP's feet on the ground, but the focus of the offense just kept getting further and further from where it should have been.

 

I think Bruce just wasn't a strong enough personality and was in over his head strategically. Even if the frothing, Thomas hating lunatics were right and his treatment of Weber broke him and the team, that says a whole lot more about the coach than the AD. Bruce had shown all of his weaknesses at points over the past 9 years, but they all came together this season. The poor guy was just in over his head.

[XZero771679666304]

If Groce is the absolute right guy and has great success, does he stick around long-term? Fair or not, the way Kruger and Self left Illinois I just wonder about that. Different situations for sure...Henson stuck around for a long time but after his Final Four team he kind of hit a plateau of sorts.

Well he grew up a fan of Indiana and you seem to be covered. He says he's a big Ten guy, has been a fan his whole life. I really don't see him leaving here on his choice, but who knows.

 

I don't get the sense Groce would be an Illini "lifer", but as long as the program is in good shape the key is the follow-up hire.

[illiniguy]

If Groce is the absolute right guy and has great success, does he stick around long-term? Fair or not, the way Kruger and Self left Illinois I just wonder about that. Different situations for sure...Henson stuck around for a long time but after his Final Four team he kind of hit a plateau of sorts.

Well he grew up a fan of Indiana and you seem to be covered. He says he's a big Ten guy, has been a fan his whole life. I really don't see him leaving here on his choice, but who knows.

 

I don't get the sense Groce would be an Illini "lifer", but as long as the program is in good shape the key is the follow-up hire.

I wouldn't say he's a lifer, but what better jobs are going to open up soon? There aren't a ton. Most of the elite have pretty good, young coaches in place.

[hawkeyecub]

Why is everyone suggesting Louisville is a better job than Illinois?

 

Arena, facilities, money plus good tradition/history and a national name.

[hawkeyecub]

yeah, how's that working out for you.

We were ranked the number 6 program all time by the Saragin ratings. So good.

 

Iowa was #10

[XZero771679666304]

 

I don't get the sense Groce would be an Illini "lifer", but as long as the program is in good shape the key is the follow-up hire.

I wouldn't say he's a lifer, but what better jobs are going to open up soon? There aren't a ton. Most of the elite have pretty good, young coaches in place.

 

You never know when one of these guys might get the itch to take an NBA job or something. I'm not expecting Groce to leave, but I don't expect him to stay for 10-15 years either (but he might, who knows). It just seems a sensible position to take.

[illiniguy]

yeah, how's that working out for you.

We were ranked the number 6 program all time by the Saragin ratings. So good.

 

Iowa was #10

Thanks bob sanders from 6 hours ago.

[illiniguy]

 

I don't get the sense Groce would be an Illini "lifer", but as long as the program is in good shape the key is the follow-up hire.

I wouldn't say he's a lifer, but what better jobs are going to open up soon? There aren't a ton. Most of the elite have pretty good, young coaches in place.

 

You never know when one of these guys might get the itch to take an NBA job or something. I'm not expecting Groce to leave, but I don't expect him to stay for 10-15 years either (but he might, who knows). It just seems a sensible position to take.

True, I think if you're winning enough that your coach is in demand you've got a good problem.

[hawkeyecub]

I don't understand what's going on here but it seems to me that illiniguy is grasping at straws

How? I think its a top 15 program. Even if all of the teams on abucks list were better than us. That still puts us at 15. I mean sure his list is awful, he didn't include Indiana in it, but even using it we are right at 15.

 

Clearly the job isn't that great otherwise they wouldn't have crapped the bed on the coaching search, but you keep changing conversations between historical rankings, current ratings and how good the job is.

By getting our third choice? Did Gunether crap the bed when he got Self? Because he wasn't his first choice. We still got a young coach that was in demand and would have been in more demand in one year.

 

Wait, you don't honestly believe that Croce was your third choice, do you?

[Magnetic Curses]

Why is everyone suggesting Louisville is a better job than Illinois?

 

Arena, facilities, money plus good tradition/history and a national name.

 

they also have the largest basketball budget in the country, although one could argue that they get the least production from every dollar spent than any other top 25 program.

[illiniguy]

I don't understand what's going on here but it seems to me that illiniguy is grasping at straws

How? I think its a top 15 program. Even if all of the teams on abucks list were better than us. That still puts us at 15. I mean sure his list is awful, he didn't include Indiana in it, but even using it we are right at 15.

 

Clearly the job isn't that great otherwise they wouldn't have crapped the bed on the coaching search, but you keep changing conversations between historical rankings, current ratings and how good the job is.

By getting our third choice? Did Gunether crap the bed when he got Self? Because he wasn't his first choice. We still got a young coach that was in demand and would have been in more demand in one year.

 

Wait, you don't honestly believe that Croce was your third choice, do you?

I think he was, are you familiar with Mike Thomas' history with Ohio?