College Basketball 2011-2012

[Exile on Waveland]

I see where some might have wanted more of a "name", but from what I have read about the guy he has some good things going for him.

 

In related news, everyone expects Watford to enter the draft and quite possibly stay. Some have speculated it is based a lot on family need. If that is the case I wish him the best. Just not suris of his NBA prospects. If he has to take the European route I hope he makes enough $ to make it worthwhile.

 

IIRC, there is no testing the waters anymore. If he declares, he's gone. He does get to get some advice before he officially declares, but that's it.

 

It would hurt 2012 if Watford left, but it would help 2013 so I'm not too concerned about it. It might not even make that big of a difference next year if some of the freshmen play well.

 

I don't know that it would hurt 2012 that much. Christian is kind of a wildly inconsistent player. I do think the 2012 kids could make up for it overall. Plus Watford going pro would conveniently solve the scholarship crunch for 2012. :-"

 

It's going to hurt a lot. You simply do not lose quality 6-foot-9, (would-be) four-year starters and not have it hurt. Both Jeremy Hollowell and Hanner Perea may/should be better than Watford in the future at some point, but I seriously, seriously doubt that point in the future is next year.

[Exile on Waveland]

And lol at the IU fans thinking we will suck next year.

 

Who are you talking about? A few yokels/trolls? I certainly don't recall anyone here saying so. It's pretty difficult to say with a new coach, but Illinois should be pretty good (and I'm assuming Meyers Leonard leaves).

 

(Though, in the yokels/trolls defense, Illinois went 6-12 last year in the Big Ten, figures to lose an NBA Lottery pick, and does not have much of a recruiting class. While it may be likely that the talented young players improve and Groce is an upgrade over Weber, neither of those things are a certainty.)

Edited March 29, 2012 by Exile on Waveland

[bukie]

Hey, I didn't say that. I've been drinking the kool-aid all morning.

[Exile on Waveland]

Fixed, sorry. Posting fail.

[illiniguy]

And lol at the IU fans thinking we will suck next year.

 

Who are you talking about? A few yokels/trolls? I certainly don't recall anyone here saying so. It's pretty difficult to say with a new coach, but Illinois should be pretty good (and I'm assuming Meyers Leonard leaves).

 

(Though, in the yokels/trolls defense, Illinois went 6-12 last year in the Big Ten, figures to lose an NBA Lottery pick, and does not have much of a recruiting class. While it may be likely that the talented young players improve and Groce is an upgrade over Weber, neither of those things are a certainty.)

Sosa21MVP about two pages ago.

[SouthSideRyan]

So is Sosa21MVP a yokel or a troll? Or a trokel?

[Exile on Waveland]

And lol at the IU fans thinking we will suck next year.

 

Who are you talking about? A few yokels/trolls? I certainly don't recall anyone here saying so. It's pretty difficult to say with a new coach, but Illinois should be pretty good (and I'm assuming Meyers Leonard leaves).

 

(Though, in the yokels/trolls defense, Illinois went 6-12 last year in the Big Ten, figures to lose an NBA Lottery pick, and does not have much of a recruiting class. While it may be likely that the talented young players improve and Groce is an upgrade over Weber, neither of those things are a certainty.)

Sosa21MVP about two pages ago.

 

Ugh, I missed that. Well, he also doesn't think losing Watford will hurt, so . . .

[bukie]

So is Sosa21MVP a yokel or a troll? Or a trokel?

I prefer the term yotroll.

[illiniguy]

And lol at the IU fans thinking we will suck next year.

 

Who are you talking about? A few yokels/trolls? I certainly don't recall anyone here saying so. It's pretty difficult to say with a new coach, but Illinois should be pretty good (and I'm assuming Meyers Leonard leaves).

 

(Though, in the yokels/trolls defense, Illinois went 6-12 last year in the Big Ten, figures to lose an NBA Lottery pick, and does not have much of a recruiting class. While it may be likely that the talented young players improve and Groce is an upgrade over Weber, neither of those things are a certainty.)

Sosa21MVP about two pages ago.

 

Ugh, I missed that. Well, he also doesn't think losing Watford will hurt, so . . .

I thought Watford was a hell of a matchup problem. Is he for sure gone?

[Exile on Waveland]

And lol at the IU fans thinking we will suck next year.

 

Who are you talking about? A few yokels/trolls? I certainly don't recall anyone here saying so. It's pretty difficult to say with a new coach, but Illinois should be pretty good (and I'm assuming Meyers Leonard leaves).

 

(Though, in the yokels/trolls defense, Illinois went 6-12 last year in the Big Ten, figures to lose an NBA Lottery pick, and does not have much of a recruiting class. While it may be likely that the talented young players improve and Groce is an upgrade over Weber, neither of those things are a certainty.)

Sosa21MVP about two pages ago.

 

Ugh, I missed that. Well, he also doesn't think losing Watford will hurt, so . . .

I thought Watford was a he'll of a matchup problem. Is he for sure gone?

 

Not for sure. It's just sounding like that and some of us, at least, have expected it for awhile. Watford is inconsistent and can be pretty frustrating -- so I can sort of understand the pooh-poohing of his potential departure -- but he's a quality player that is definitely a matchup problem in college.

[Exile on Waveland]

So is Sosa21MVP a yokel or a troll? Or a trokel?

 

I think he was intentionally trolling Bruce Weber.

 

Thumbs up on "trokel."

[hawkeyecub]

Groce, unlike Smart and Stevens, has the stones to move.

 

LOL

[hawkeyecub]

For like a minute and a half I stopped thinking about how Ohio has taken a step back in a one-bid league since Groce took over and got worried about him. Then I read that he thinks the world of Todd Lickliter, so it's all good now.

 

Put him on your staff John!

[illiniguy]

Groce, unlike Smart and Stevens, has the stones to move.

 

LOL

I'm stretching a bit lol. Although I don't get what those two are waiting for?

[Exile on Waveland]

Groce, unlike Smart and Stevens, has the stones to move.

 

LOL

I'm stretching a bit lol. Although I don't get what those two are waiting for?

 

I was pretty surprised by Smart, I thought he'd take the Illinois job. I don't think he'll end up getting a better job from VCU than Illinois. Stevens I wasn't surprised by; he's perfectly content and will only leave for a few specific jobs (and not even necessarily "better" jobs than Illinois, I think he'd likely leave for Notre Dame, if that became available). I know who should hire him in a few years, though they'll surely mistakenly hire a disciple.

[illiniguy]

And lol at the IU fans thinking we will suck next year.

 

Who are you talking about? A few yokels/trolls? I certainly don't recall anyone here saying so. It's pretty difficult to say with a new coach, but Illinois should be pretty good (and I'm assuming Meyers Leonard leaves).

 

(Though, in the yokels/trolls defense, Illinois went 6-12 last year in the Big Ten, figures to lose an NBA Lottery pick, and does not have much of a recruiting class. While it may be likely that the talented young players improve and Groce is an upgrade over Weber, neither of those things are a certainty.)

I don't see how anyone with any objectivity can say that Groce could be worse than Weber was the past 4 to 5 years.

[illiniguy]

Groce, unlike Smart and Stevens, has the stones to move.

 

LOL

I'm stretching a bit lol. Although I don't get what those two are waiting for?

 

I was pretty surprised by Smart, I thought he'd take the Illinois job. I don't think he'll end up getting a better job from VCU than Illinois. Stevens I wasn't surprised by; he's perfectly content and will only leave for a few specific jobs (and not even necessarily "better" jobs than Illinois, I think he'd likely leave for Notre Dame, if that became available). I know who should hire him in a few years, though they'll surely mistakenly hire a disciple.

I agree, hell go back and look. I said Stevens wasn't coming here. He needs to be careful though. One more sub .500 year and he doesn't look as good.

[bukie]

Things I like about Groce:

- Plays at an offensive tempo faster than all but three B1G teams this year (Iowa/OSU/IU), and miles faster than Weber.

- On the younger side of coaching

- Recruited well at OSU

- Ohio was the best team in the MAC despite not having the best record.

 

Things that make me skeptical about Groce:

- Some bad losses at his Ohio tenure (which is why they never actually won the MAC)

- MAC hasn't been an especially strong league of late

- If he is successful, nothing keeping him from using Illinois as a stepping stone to something else in 5 years.

[Exile on Waveland]

And lol at the IU fans thinking we will suck next year.

 

Who are you talking about? A few yokels/trolls? I certainly don't recall anyone here saying so. It's pretty difficult to say with a new coach, but Illinois should be pretty good (and I'm assuming Meyers Leonard leaves).

 

(Though, in the yokels/trolls defense, Illinois went 6-12 last year in the Big Ten, figures to lose an NBA Lottery pick, and does not have much of a recruiting class. While it may be likely that the talented young players improve and Groce is an upgrade over Weber, neither of those things are a certainty.)

I don't see how anyone with any objectivity can say that Groce could be worse than Weber was the past 4 to 5 years.

 

As a program-builder or as a tactical coach? I have little doubt that the next four or five years at Illinois will be better than the last four to five years. But I'm not sure that inherently means that Groce will have an identifiable impact next year with the players that struggled under Weber; maybe, but maybe not.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Exile on Waveland

[illiniguy]

Things I like about Groce:

- Plays at an offensive tempo faster than all but three B1G teams this year (Iowa/OSU/IU), and miles faster than Weber.

- On the younger side of coaching

- Recruited well at OSU

- Ohio was the best team in the MAC despite not having the best record.

 

Things that make me skeptical about Groce:

- Some bad losses at his Ohio tenure (which is why they never actually won the MAC)

- MAC hasn't been an especially strong league of late

- If he is successful, nothing keeping him from using Illinois as a stepping stone to something else in 5 years.

I don't ever find this as a negative. Kruger used us as a stepping stone, so did Self. We won like .800 percent of our games while that was happening. Just keep hiring good coaches and if one isn't working out, don't give him a decade to wreck your program.

Edited March 29, 2012 by illiniguy

[illiniguy]

And lol at the IU fans thinking we will suck next year.

 

Who are you talking about? A few yokels/trolls? I certainly don't recall anyone here saying so. It's pretty difficult to say with a new coach, but Illinois should be pretty good (and I'm assuming Meyers Leonard leaves).

 

(Though, in the yokels/trolls defense, Illinois went 6-12 last year in the Big Ten, figures to lose an NBA Lottery pick, and does not have much of a recruiting class. While it may be likely that the talented young players improve and Groce is an upgrade over Weber, neither of those things are a certainty.)

I don't see how anyone with any objectivity can say that Groce could be worse than Weber was the past 4 to 5 years.

 

As a program-builder or as a tactical coach? I have little doubt that the next four or five years at Illinois will be better than the last four to five years. But I'm not sure that inherently means that Groce will have an identifiable impact next year with the players that struggle under Weber; maybe, but maybe not.

Both, Weber was terrible at both of these things. I also think just by playing the best kids he will be better than what we've had.

[hawkeyecub]

Groce, unlike Smart and Stevens, has the stones to move.

 

LOL

I'm stretching a bit lol. Although I don't get what those two are waiting for?

 

Didn't we all agree for the last year that Stevens wasn't leaving Butler for the Illinois job? Then for some reason when Smart turned them down, some people acted surprised that Stevens stayed. Butler is going to be really good again next year and he's happier than [expletive], making good money and holding out for his perfect job.

 

Shaka surprised me a bit but I didn't realize how much he was making there right now. I think there probably is something to the theory of coaches talking and hating the idea of dealing with Chicago. He also returns nearly his entire team and should have a big season next year. Like Stevens, it looks like he has his pick of what job he wants.

 

There have been too many good, young mid-major coaches that got burned for jumping at the first big job they could. The money has gotten a lot better at the mid-major level if you have success. That trend has really taken a hit the last few years. Add Gregg Marshall to the list.

[illiniguy]

Groce, unlike Smart and Stevens, has the stones to move.

 

LOL

I'm stretching a bit lol. Although I don't get what those two are waiting for?

 

Didn't we all agree for the last year that Stevens wasn't leaving Butler for the Illinois job? Then for some reason when Smart turned them down, some people acted surprised that Stevens stayed. Butler is going to be really good again next year and he's happier than [expletive], making good money and holding out for his perfect job.

 

Shaka surprised me a bit but I didn't realize how much he was making there right now. I think there probably is something to the theory of coaches talking and hating the idea of dealing with Chicago. He also returns nearly his entire team and should have a big season next year. Like Stevens, it looks like he has his pick of what job he wants.

 

There have been too many good, young mid-major coaches that got burned for jumping at the first big job they could. The money has gotten a lot better at the mid-major level if you have success. That trend has really taken a hit the last few years. Add Gregg Marshall to the list.

Man, if only I said on here multiple times that Brad Stevens wasn't leaving for Illinois. Oh wait, I did. Even after the rumor mill started. Also I don't think any of these guys are going to a blue blood from a mid major.

[abuck1220]

Groce, unlike Smart and Stevens, has the stones to move.

 

LOL

I'm stretching a bit lol. Although I don't get what those two are waiting for?

 

maybe, just maybe, you're overestimating how glorious the illinois job is.

[SouthSideRyan]

Groce, unlike Smart and Stevens, has the stones to move.

 

LOL

I'm stretching a bit lol. Although I don't get what those two are waiting for?

 

maybe, just maybe, you're overestimating how glorious the illinois job is.

 

They're at VCU and Butler.