College Basketball 2011-2012

[CubColtPacer]

The Illini typically don't get into foul trouble. Other than the Minny OT game where Leonard fouled out on the single worst play of the year, the highest # of fouls Illinois has been called for was 18. Today? 30. Nobody's saying Illinois should've shot more FTs. Just constant bailout calls kept Paul and Leonard on the bench for 10 minutes each.

 

Call me crazy, but I have to think the 27 shot FT difference was a major deciding factor in the game.

 

The 27 is a bit overstated to begin with. Illinois had some silly fouls in the last 2 minutes that led to 8 Indiana free throws when the game was already decided. So a 19 FT difference in the first 38 minutes.

 

Add that Indiana deserved some sort of disparity, and you're looking at maybe 10-15 extra FT's on the high end. But it was probably a good deal less than that.

 

As for the Leonard thing, if the refs wanted to favor IU they could have easily called 2 early fouls on Leonard. 1st with the shove at halfcourt and 2nd with the charge that they changed to a block. Not saying they made the wrong calls, but refs with an agenda could have easily had Leonard on the bench there.

[illiniguy]

Good call ccp he could have been called for a t on that first exchange with Zeller. I forgot about that, still think the last three fouls against him were awful though. Game changing.

[rawaction]

You haven't done that, but keep thinking you have. Our best player was taken out of the game for a large stretch after two horrible calls, yet you don't think that impacted the game. So there is no sense reasoning with you,

 

Keep believing that you would have won the game with Leonard in there. Bottom line, your team didn't stop the dribble drive well enough to win even if the officials swallowed their whistles. I never said it didn't impact the game. It did. You lost by 13 instead of 7. Whoopity Doo!

[bukie]

And it's mostly frustrating because Illinois actually played well offensively, and there's no more frustrating game to watch than when the opponent scores 40% of their points at the free throw line when your team typically doesn't foul a lot.

[illiniguy]

You haven't done that, but keep thinking you have. Our best player was taken out of the game for a large stretch after two horrible calls, yet you don't think that impacted the game. So there is no sense reasoning with you,

 

Keep believing that you would have won the game with Leonard in there. Bottom line, your team didn't stop the dribble drive well enough to win even if the officials swallowed their whistles. I never said it didn't impact the game. It did. You lost by 13 instead of 7. Whoopity Doo!

Right cause you said so, look at you running circles again.

[rawaction]

The Illini typically don't get into foul trouble. Other than the Minny OT game where Leonard fouled out on the single worst play of the year, the highest # of fouls Illinois has been called for was 18. Today? 30. Nobody's saying Illinois should've shot more FTs. Just constant bailout calls kept Paul and Leonard on the bench for 10 minutes each.

 

Call me crazy, but I have to think the 27 shot FT difference was a major deciding factor in the game.

 

Call me crazy, but I have to think the 27 shot FT difference was caused, in large part, by 1 team going to the hoop aggressively and 1 team not at all.

Illinois made 12 layups, Indiana 14. Both made the same amount of threes. Illinois made 5 extra 2 point jumpers, and took 8 additional shots (9 threes, IU had one additional 2-point attempt than Illinois).

 

How many of Illinois layups were fastbreaks or off of lose balls? IU had 1 layup not in the half court. The Zeller dunk early in the 2nd half. At least 1/2 of Illinois were from fast breaks or lose balls.

Three. They also missed one off a transition play, so four total. Most of them were Leonard in the block or Paul driving the lane.

 

I stand corrected. But still, IU had 13 in the half court from my hazy memory. And all 12 of Oladipo's FTs attempts came from him driving the ball.

[rawaction]

You haven't done that, but keep thinking you have. Our best player was taken out of the game for a large stretch after two horrible calls, yet you don't think that impacted the game. So there is no sense reasoning with you,

 

Keep believing that you would have won the game with Leonard in there. Bottom line, your team didn't stop the dribble drive well enough to win even if the officials swallowed their whistles. I never said it didn't impact the game. It did. You lost by 13 instead of 7. Whoopity Doo!

Right cause you said so, look at you running circles again.

 

Prove me wrong. How well did you think Illinois did stopping Hulls and Oladipo from getting in the lane?

[illiniguy]

You haven't done that, but keep thinking you have. Our best player was taken out of the game for a large stretch after two horrible calls, yet you don't think that impacted the game. So there is no sense reasoning with you,

 

Keep believing that you would have won the game with Leonard in there. Bottom line, your team didn't stop the dribble drive well enough to win even if the officials swallowed their whistles. I never said it didn't impact the game. It did. You lost by 13 instead of 7. Whoopity Doo!

Right cause you said so, look at you running circles again.

 

Prove me wrong. How well did you think Illinois did stopping Hulls and Oladipo from getting in the lane?

In the first half well enough to be right there with you. Then when the referees went foul crazy you pushed it out. Did you watch the game?

[rawaction]

You haven't done that, but keep thinking you have. Our best player was taken out of the game for a large stretch after two horrible calls, yet you don't think that impacted the game. So there is no sense reasoning with you,

 

Keep believing that you would have won the game with Leonard in there. Bottom line, your team didn't stop the dribble drive well enough to win even if the officials swallowed their whistles. I never said it didn't impact the game. It did. You lost by 13 instead of 7. Whoopity Doo!

Right cause you said so, look at you running circles again.

 

Prove me wrong. How well did you think Illinois did stopping Hulls and Oladipo from getting in the lane?

In the first half well enough to be right there with you. Then when the referees went foul crazy you pushed it out. Did you watch the game?

 

Yep, watched it all. Maybe you saw something I didn't though. Did Oladipo not get legitimately fouled 9 times going to the hoop? Did Hulls not make shots in the lane? Did Hulls not get in deep on the baseline a couple times leading to a couple Zeller dunks, and a Watford 3? If you're OK with your team's defense tonight, you have low standards,.

[bukie]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

[Exile on Waveland]

The officiating definitely favored IU tonight. Of course, it's a road game in the Big Ten, so that entirely typical. Was it worse than typically? Possibly. But there were mitigating facts -- IU drove and went stronger to the basket more often than Illinois did which leads to more fouls being called.

 

On Leonard's fouls: he definitely did not foul when Zeller went through him to score (though this same play has wrongly been called a foul on Zeller all conference season), the moving screen was technically correct but weak and rarely called (though called on IU the next possession, but on Pritchard so apples-to-oranges), but he definitely fouled went he shoved through Sheehey's screen. Leonard was also lucky not to get a foul and, at least, a stern talking to when he shoved Zeller down in the open court for no reason.

 

As for the Ohio State game, sure, Sullinger had four fouls but played 29 minutes. Zeller fouled out and only played 21 minutes. Considering the disparity between the rest of Ohio State's talent and the rest of IU's talent, I have a feeling Matta would have taken that trade in a second. Hard to see much bias there.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Exile on Waveland

[CubColtPacer]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

I'm looking at the play by play and I'm confused by what you said. Indiana got into the bonus with 13:44 left. Leonard's 4th foul was an offensive one (the moving screen) with 12:29, and it looks like Indiana got into the double bonus with 8:20 left after a foul by Henry. Am I missing something?

[bukie]

Like I said, it reminded me of the Illinois-Arizona game in 2001, where Illinois was whistled for 36 fouls and Arizona shot 56(!) free throws.

[rawaction]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

I'm looking at the play by play and I'm confused by what you said. Indiana got into the bonus with 13:44 left. Leonard's 4th foul was an offensive one (the moving screen) with 12:29, and it looks like Indiana got into the double bonus with 8:20 left after a foul by Henry. Am I missing something?

 

Nope. IU was in the double bonus with 15 minutes to play. End of story.

[bukie]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

I'm looking at the play by play and I'm confused by what you said. Indiana got into the bonus with 13:44 left. Leonard's 4th foul was an offensive one (the moving screen) with 12:29, and it looks like Indiana got into the double bonus with 8:20 left after a foul by Henry. Am I missing something?

I meant the moving screen, just ballparking the time left. I could've sworn that Leonard foul put them at 9 for the second half.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Illinois was robbed of a fair game. Sorry IU fans.

[rawaction]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

Were all 13 of those calls bad calls? If not, then it should affect the game's conclusion. You're not allowed to commit fouls and stay on the basketball court. You guys keep harping on 2-3 calls on Leonard, when most of the 26 fouls called on Illinois were undisputable....yet you guys keep dismissing my point that Illinois could not stop IU from getting into the paint at will. Paul, Henry and Bertrand all had legit fouls. Hell, Paul didn't really feel like playing anyway.

[bukie]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

I'm looking at the play by play and I'm confused by what you said. Indiana got into the bonus with 13:44 left. Leonard's 4th foul was an offensive one (the moving screen) with 12:29, and it looks like Indiana got into the double bonus with 8:20 left after a foul by Henry. Am I missing something?

 

Nope. IU was in the double bonus with 15 minutes to play. End of story.

The hyperbole is unnecessary and flippant.

[rawaction]

Illinois was robbed of a fair game. Sorry IU fans.

 

Even if I give you that point....Illinois still would have lost what you consider a fair game because they didn't stop the dribble drive. Maybe that's too big of an assumption to make, but I don't see that as that big of a limb for me to be out on.

[CubColtPacer]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

I'm looking at the play by play and I'm confused by what you said. Indiana got into the bonus with 13:44 left. Leonard's 4th foul was an offensive one (the moving screen) with 12:29, and it looks like Indiana got into the double bonus with 8:20 left after a foul by Henry. Am I missing something?

I meant the moving screen, just ballparking the time left. I could've sworn that Leonard foul put them at 9 for the second half.

 

Play by play shows Leonard's was the 8th. 9th was committed with 8:56 to play.

[rawaction]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

I'm looking at the play by play and I'm confused by what you said. Indiana got into the bonus with 13:44 left. Leonard's 4th foul was an offensive one (the moving screen) with 12:29, and it looks like Indiana got into the double bonus with 8:20 left after a foul by Henry. Am I missing something?

 

Nope. IU was in the double bonus with 15 minutes to play. End of story.

The hyperbole is unnecessary and flippant.

 

Funny, I don't remember you posting that when Illiniguy posted these gems:

 

"But, but, but, they drove more."

"But Indiana is back, Gus told me so. They're gonna win it all this year."

And some BS about the talent Illinois players getting too close to the untalented IU players.

 

I know it wasn't you who was doing it, but I'm just giving it back to you guys.

[bukie]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

Were all 13 of those calls bad calls? If not, then it should affect the game's conclusion. You're not allowed to commit fouls and stay on the basketball court. You guys keep harping on 2-3 calls on Leonard, when most of the 26 fouls called on Illinois were undisputable....yet you guys keep dismissing my point that Illinois could not stop IU from getting into the paint at will. Paul, Henry and Bertrand all had legit fouls. Hell, Paul didn't really feel like playing anyway.

I'm saying your position is largely a chicken-egg scenario. Every little tap was getting a foul call, so the defenders were unable to stay close on their assignments to avoid picking up even more fouls. From the time Leonard went out with his 4th with 12:29 left until IU went up 67-55 at 5:00, every single IU possession ended with a made 3, a made layup, or FTs.

[CubColtPacer]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

Were all 13 of those calls bad calls? If not, then it should affect the game's conclusion. You're not allowed to commit fouls and stay on the basketball court. You guys keep harping on 2-3 calls on Leonard, when most of the 26 fouls called on Illinois were undisputable....yet you guys keep dismissing my point that Illinois could not stop IU from getting into the paint at will. Paul, Henry and Bertrand all had legit fouls. Hell, Paul didn't really feel like playing anyway.

I'm saying your position is largely a chicken-egg scenario. Every little tap was getting a foul call, so the defenders were unable to stay close on their assignments to avoid picking up even more fouls. From the time Leonard went out with his 4th with 12:29 left until IU went up 67-55 at 5:00, every single IU possession ended with a made 3, a made layup, or FTs.

 

This is not true. Pritchard's offensive foul was on the very next IU possession. Abell missed a jumper on the possession after that. They had 2 scores than Oladipo got called for travelling. Then IU had a stretch where that was true but it was shorter and later in the game than what you said(8:56 to 4:17 which was a total of 8 possessions).

[illiniguy]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

I'm looking at the play by play and I'm confused by what you said. Indiana got into the bonus with 13:44 left. Leonard's 4th foul was an offensive one (the moving screen) with 12:29, and it looks like Indiana got into the double bonus with 8:20 left after a foul by Henry. Am I missing something?

 

Nope. IU was in the double bonus with 15 minutes to play. End of story.

The hyperbole is unnecessary and flippant.

 

Funny, I don't remember you posting that when Illiniguy posted these gems:

 

"But, but, but, they drove more."

"But Indiana is back, Gus told me so. They're gonna win it all this year."

And some BS about the talent Illinois players getting too close to the untalented IU players.

 

I know it wasn't you who was doing it, but I'm just giving it back to you guys.

Your a mod. You're supposed to be better than me.

[rawaction]

Illinois was whistled for their 20th team foul down 3 with 15 minutes to play. That sent Leonard to the bench with 4, while Paul, Henry and Bertrand had 3 each, and IU was in the double bonus for the final 15 minutes of the game. I think that may have affected the game's conclusion, yes.

 

Were all 13 of those calls bad calls? If not, then it should affect the game's conclusion. You're not allowed to commit fouls and stay on the basketball court. You guys keep harping on 2-3 calls on Leonard, when most of the 26 fouls called on Illinois were undisputable....yet you guys keep dismissing my point that Illinois could not stop IU from getting into the paint at will. Paul, Henry and Bertrand all had legit fouls. Hell, Paul didn't really feel like playing anyway.

I'm saying your position is largely a chicken-egg scenario. Every little tap was getting a foul call, so the defenders were unable to stay close on their assignments to avoid picking up even more fouls. From the time Leonard went out with his 4th with 12:29 left until IU went up 67-55 at 5:00, every single IU possession ended with a made 3, a made layup, or FTs.

 

From the start of the 2nd half to the 12:29 mark left in the game, every IU possession ended with a made 3, a made layup, or a FT (other than a Hulls 2-pt jumper from about 10ft). IU got an offensive rebound after every shot they missed the first 7 1/2 minutes of the 2nd half. Leonard going out just gave a convenient excuse and Illinois had little chance of keeping up with IU offensively in the 2nd half, even with him on the floor.