Bears game 4: Sunday Oct. 3 at NYG on NBC

[rawaction]

Everyone keeps saying Cutler can't survive if he keeps getting hit. Obviously, you don't want Cutler to get hit, but has it ever crossed anyone's mind that he can take it? He hasn't missed a game since he became a starting QB. Can't say for sure in Denver, but he has only missed 1 play as a Bear due to injury.

 

Nobody says Aaron Rodgers can't keep taking hits, and he took 51 sacks last year. Roethlisberger took 50. Vick has taken by far more than anyone this year, and is a runner so that just multiplies the hits he takes.

 

Again, you don't want Cutler getting hit. But the OL has and will get better. Its the only position in the league where you need time together to work as a unit. The DL is probably playing at its highest point right now due to fresh legs early in the season. By the end of the year, I think the lack of talent on the DL is going to show unless someone really steps up.

 

I think it's completely irresponsible and illogical to just say he's taken it well so far so no reason to think he can't keep taking it. And it's not just pass protection. They can't run block worth a crap. This team should never go for it on 4th and 1 because they can't get it. The offensive line has been ignored for far too long. The occasional stop gap journeyman does not solve anything.

 

I'm not eliminating the possibility of drafting a tackle early, but it's very clearly not the number 1 priority.

 

And I say it's not very clear that OL is the #1 priority.

[Guest]

Dallas had a ton of success throwing the 15 yard out patterns.

 

Granted, there aren't many qb's in the nfl that can consistently make that throw as well as Romo, so it's not a huge concern most of the time.

[jersey cubs fan]

Everyone keeps saying Cutler can't survive if he keeps getting hit. Obviously, you don't want Cutler to get hit, but has it ever crossed anyone's mind that he can take it? He hasn't missed a game since he became a starting QB. Can't say for sure in Denver, but he has only missed 1 play as a Bear due to injury.

 

Nobody says Aaron Rodgers can't keep taking hits, and he took 51 sacks last year. Roethlisberger took 50. Vick has taken by far more than anyone this year, and is a runner so that just multiplies the hits he takes.

 

Again, you don't want Cutler getting hit. But the OL has and will get better. Its the only position in the league where you need time together to work as a unit. The DL is probably playing at its highest point right now due to fresh legs early in the season. By the end of the year, I think the lack of talent on the DL is going to show unless someone really steps up.

 

I think it's completely irresponsible and illogical to just say he's taken it well so far so no reason to think he can't keep taking it. And it's not just pass protection. They can't run block worth a crap. This team should never go for it on 4th and 1 because they can't get it. The offensive line has been ignored for far too long. The occasional stop gap journeyman does not solve anything.

 

I'm not eliminating the possibility of drafting a tackle early, but it's very clearly not the number 1 priority.

 

And I say it's not very clear that OL is the #1 priority.

 

You can say whatever you want, but it is.

[Guest]

Everyone keeps saying Cutler can't survive if he keeps getting hit. Obviously, you don't want Cutler to get hit, but has it ever crossed anyone's mind that he can take it? He hasn't missed a game since he became a starting QB. Can't say for sure in Denver, but he has only missed 1 play as a Bear due to injury.

 

Nobody says Aaron Rodgers can't keep taking hits, and he took 51 sacks last year. Roethlisberger took 50. Vick has taken by far more than anyone this year, and is a runner so that just multiplies the hits he takes.

 

Again, you don't want Cutler getting hit. But the OL has and will get better. Its the only position in the league where you need time together to work as a unit. The DL is probably playing at its highest point right now due to fresh legs early in the season. By the end of the year, I think the lack of talent on the DL is going to show unless someone really steps up.

 

I think it's completely irresponsible and illogical to just say he's taken it well so far so no reason to think he can't keep taking it. And it's not just pass protection. They can't run block worth a crap. This team should never go for it on 4th and 1 because they can't get it. The offensive line has been ignored for far too long. The occasional stop gap journeyman does not solve anything.

 

I'm not eliminating the possibility of drafting a tackle early, but it's very clearly not the number 1 priority.

 

And I say it's not very clear that OL is the #1 priority.

 

Not sure how anyone can say that, and I've been drinking the koolaid since before the season started. This line can't protect the QB and they can't open holes for the running game. The only thing saving Cutler's life at this point is his ability to hit receivers for big plays. That's what has taken some of the pressure off the pass rush. Game films will show that the reason Cutler starts getting more time to throw is because opposing defenses fear his arm.

 

Defensively, I don't think they are getting as much credit as they deserve. The Cover 2 under the Bears regime has always been a "let them do whatever they want between the 20's" type of defense. Their focus is creating turnovers and keeping plays in front of them between the 20's and tightening up in the red zone. Maybe not the greatest play calling, but it's helped them be 3-0 so far this year by limiting the amount of points that get put on the board by the opponents. I really can't be all that alarmed by the stats on defense. Who cares if the opposing QB throws for 400 yards if the most points they can put on the board is 17. Cutler has enough weapons at his disposal to score more than that, especially if the opponent wants to challenge him on deep throws.

 

The pass rush does suck. The DB's are certainly not a huge strength and lean towards horrible at the S position. But, as a team, they have been pretty good in the red zone from what I've witnessed so for this year. No team is awesome at every position.

 

However, the Bears do need to improve that offensive line more than any other position, and it's not even a close race. I was actually writing Cutler's eulogy in the first quarter of the Dallas game. If it weren't for some creative changes to the offensive game plan, I would have already delivered that eulogy by now.

[soapy]

What I don't understand is your note on the coaching staff. They've won three games. 9 should have been the bare minimum for acceptance in my opinion, which means they need to win 6 more. This team can absolutely fall apart in heartbeat and revert to the 2007-2009 form. 3-0 does not guarantee a playoff spot. A couple surprising wins does not guarantee they will avoid several disappointing losses. Let's wait before that question even gets asked, let alone answered.

 

You're right, of course. It's overreacting to say one way or the other. I'm just really encouraged by what I've seen so far...some uncharacteristic Bears things like "name" players getting sat, or adjustments being made, and I get excited.

 

While I definitely don't think the Bears coaching staff has earned anything yet, I have been encouraged by in-game adjustments in the first three games, both offensively and defensively.

[Banedon]

Baltimore cut DE Trevor Pryce. Any interest?

 

EDIT: Apparently they're likely to pick him back up next week.

[jersey cubs fan]

An old 3-4 end with limited sack totals. I wouldn't complain, but I wouldn't campaign for it either.

[rawaction]

It's tough to prioritize right now because there are so many areas where the team has to build. Here's how I'd rank them:

 

OL: There's simply not much talent here. Can't open holes in the run game. Can't protect Cutler

 

DL: Pass protection starts up front and other than Peppers we can't generate any pressure with the front four.

 

DB: Probably the least talented group on the field. Would have them ranked higher, but I'm a believer in building the lines first.

 

LB: They're great, but dang they're getting old.

 

OL: What, I can't list them twice?

 

WR: what we really need is a stud, though, there's plenty of depth guys. And I wouldn't invest a first rounder here instead of the groups above.

 

 

 

Not needs:

 

RB, TE, QB

 

More specifically. I think OG and OC are much bigger needs than OT. Williams is still young, only has 5 games played at the position he was drafted to play. Omiyale is still young (early prime), has 3 more years on his deal, and has only played 3 game at OT. Shaffer has played well as the veteran presence. And you still have Webb as a project at OT. Think this group gets 1 more year.

 

On the other hand, Kreutz and Garza should be done after this year.

 

I don't agree with you at all on DBs and WR. I would probably never draft a WR in the first unless you have a Calvin, Andre, or Moss sitting there. The Bears in no way, shape or form need a stud WR. They are one of the best passing teams in the league right now without one. They just need a guy that can run routes, get open and make plays. A 2nd or 3rd rounder (especially in a deep draft this year) should do the trick.

 

DBs are fine. Tillman looks pretty good out there. Bowman still has talent. DJ Moore has played well. Joshua Moore has upside. Then you still have Major Wright and Manning who are both young and looked decent this year. If anything I think you can bring in a veteran CB to replace Jennings, though if he plays like he did Monday he stays. And you get a 3rd or 4th safety in the 2nd half of the draft, assuming Manning/Wright can start next year.

 

I would rate team needs right now:

 

DT

OG

OC

LB

S

OT

DE

WR

CB

[Guest]

You think WAY more highly of our CB's than I do.

[rawaction]

Everyone keeps saying Cutler can't survive if he keeps getting hit. Obviously, you don't want Cutler to get hit, but has it ever crossed anyone's mind that he can take it? He hasn't missed a game since he became a starting QB. Can't say for sure in Denver, but he has only missed 1 play as a Bear due to injury.

 

Nobody says Aaron Rodgers can't keep taking hits, and he took 51 sacks last year. Roethlisberger took 50. Vick has taken by far more than anyone this year, and is a runner so that just multiplies the hits he takes.

 

Again, you don't want Cutler getting hit. But the OL has and will get better. Its the only position in the league where you need time together to work as a unit. The DL is probably playing at its highest point right now due to fresh legs early in the season. By the end of the year, I think the lack of talent on the DL is going to show unless someone really steps up.

 

I think it's completely irresponsible and illogical to just say he's taken it well so far so no reason to think he can't keep taking it. And it's not just pass protection. They can't run block worth a crap. This team should never go for it on 4th and 1 because they can't get it. The offensive line has been ignored for far too long. The occasional stop gap journeyman does not solve anything.

 

I'm not eliminating the possibility of drafting a tackle early, but it's very clearly not the number 1 priority.

 

And I say it's not very clear that OL is the #1 priority.

 

You can say whatever you want, but it is.

 

You can too, doesn't make you right despite what you think.

[rawaction]

You think WAY more highly of our CB's than I do.

 

It's not that. It's just that it's one of the youngest positions on the team. Other than Tillman, the Bears have a 22yo, 23 yo, two 25 yo, and a 26 yo. Tillman probably isn't going anywhere unless he completely falls flat on his face over the next 3 months. The only options are to get rid of the 25 and 26 yo (Graham an Jennings) and they are the 4th and 5th CBs at this point, with Joshua Moore probably passing both of them by next training camp.

 

Granted, if you can get potential shutdown guy in the 1st...go for it. But I don't see it as big of a need as DL, OL or LB and safety depth.

[jersey cubs fan]

You can too, doesn't make you right despite what you think.

 

It's not what I think, it's what I know. It's a 5 man group with questions at every single position. That's far more dangerous than the lack of a mythological pass rushing tackle.

[rawaction]

You can too, doesn't make you right despite what you think.

 

It's not what I think, it's what I know. It's a 5 man group with questions at every single position. That's far more dangerous than the lack of a mythological pass rushing tackle.

 

And as I said, it's a 5-man group with youth at 3 of the 5 positions. Without Harris (which is the scenario that triggered this discussion) the DL doesn't have anyone drafted as highly as Williams. It doesn't have anyone that garnered the interest in free agency that Omiyale did. And other than Harrison who looks like a DL bust and Melton who was a college RB and LB for 3 years, both lines have a bunch of late round picks.

 

So, it's not like the talent is booming on either line. But as a whole, the OL is at least younger than the DL and therefore has more ability to get better in the long run.

 

Both are huge needs. And I haven't said unequivocably that DL is a bigger need that OL. Just saying it's not as clear cut as everyone is making it out to be.

[jersey cubs fan]

You can too, doesn't make you right despite what you think.

 

It's not what I think, it's what I know. It's a 5 man group with questions at every single position. That's far more dangerous than the lack of a mythological pass rushing tackle.

 

And as I said, it's a 5-man group with youth at 3 of the 5 positions. Without Harris (which is the scenario that triggered this discussion) the DL doesn't have anyone drafted as highly as Williams. It doesn't have anyone that garnered the interest in free agency that Omiyale did. And other than Harrison who looks like a DL bust and Melton who was a college RB and LB for 3 years, both lines have a bunch of late round picks.

 

So, it's not like the talent is booming on either line. But as a whole, the OL is at least younger than the DL and therefore has more ability to get better in the long run.

 

Both are huge needs. And I haven't said unequivocably that DL is a bigger need that OL. Just saying it's not as clear cut as everyone is making it out to be.

 

Younger without much talent and why are you ignoring Peppers in there?

 

At least now you admitting it may not be the bigger need.

[Magnetic Curses]

Baltimore cut DE Trevor Pryce. Any interest?

 

EDIT: Apparently they're likely to pick him back up next week.

 

he's always been a 3-4 end, hasn't he?

[Banedon]

Baltimore cut DE Trevor Pryce. Any interest?

 

EDIT: Apparently they're likely to pick him back up next week.

 

he's always been a 3-4 end, hasn't he?

 

He played 4-3 in Denver I believe.

 

Edit: Yep...

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2005_roster.htm

[rawaction]

Another positive to come out of Monday night. Giants are apparently going to punt the ball away from Hester. Glad that's back. One game doesn't take away the 2+ years Hester has been ineffective returning punts. Kicking away from him because of what he did vs. GB means more poor punts and better field position. I'd throw him out there on kickoffs too just to see what the other team does.

[Banedon]

Another positive to come out of Monday night. Giants are apparently going to punt the ball away from Hester. Glad that's back. One game doesn't take away the 2+ years Hester has been ineffective returning punts. Kicking away from him because of what he did vs. GB means more poor punts and better field position. I'd throw him out there on kickoffs too just to see what the other team does.

 

I always wondered why we don't have Hester do kickoffs instead of punts. (Presuming they only want him to do punts or kickoffs, and not both.) It seems like kickoffs would give him more room to get his speed going.

[Magnetic Curses]

Baltimore cut DE Trevor Pryce. Any interest?

 

EDIT: Apparently they're likely to pick him back up next week.

 

he's always been a 3-4 end, hasn't he?

 

He played 4-3 in Denver I believe.

 

hasn't shanahan always preferred the 3-4 scheme?

[jersey cubs fan]

Another positive to come out of Monday night. Giants are apparently going to punt the ball away from Hester. Glad that's back. One game doesn't take away the 2+ years Hester has been ineffective returning punts. Kicking away from him because of what he did vs. GB means more poor punts and better field position. I'd throw him out there on kickoffs too just to see what the other team does.

 

I always wondered why we don't have Hester do kickoffs instead of punts. (Presuming they only want him to do punts or kickoffs, and not both.) It seems like kickoffs would give him more room to get his speed going.

 

I could be wrong but I think kick returners take bigger hits, and punt returns require greater quickness and shiftiness, which is Hester's thing maybe moreso than straight speed.

[rawaction]

Another positive to come out of Monday night. Giants are apparently going to punt the ball away from Hester. Glad that's back. One game doesn't take away the 2+ years Hester has been ineffective returning punts. Kicking away from him because of what he did vs. GB means more poor punts and better field position. I'd throw him out there on kickoffs too just to see what the other team does.

 

I always wondered why we don't have Hester do kickoffs instead of punts. (Presuming they only want him to do punts or kickoffs, and not both.) It seems like kickoffs would give him more room to get his speed going.

 

He's always been a much better punt returner though. 8 TDs on PRs (1 per 19.25 returns). Only 4 on KRs (1 every 25.5 returns). Hester's PR average was among the league leaders his 1st 2 years, while his KOR average was middle of the pack. Manning and Knox have surpassed him as kickoff returners.

 

Edit: Hester average 1 PR TD for every 12.7 returns, which is nuts!

[Magnetic Curses]

on most all of hester's td returns he runs right and slips through a crease. i think it's easier to set this up off of a punt, the defense is less organized and more prone to being blocked effectively because they're being jammed off the line of scrimmage.

[Banedon]

Good reasons guys...thx.

 

 

 

 

hasn't shanahan always preferred the 3-4 scheme?

 

Nope. He ran 4-3 in Denver. Apparently he's decided during his time off that he now likes the 3-4 though.

 

Several months before he was hired to coach the Redskins, the word started to spread about the defense Mike Shanahan wanted to run. After visiting New England and Pittsburgh during his one-year hiatus, Shanahan decided the 3-4 was for him.

[Magnetic Curses]

i lived there for a couple of years during his tenure, i should have known that.

[JonJayCutler]

Just read that Mario Manningham has a concussion and probably won't play Sunday.

 

For us, hopefully Peppers, Briggs, Chris Harris and whoever else got banged up Monday are ready to go. I know Wright is likely to be out again, but any word on when we can expect Chris Williams back?