Mariners on the verge of being historically bad

[Outshined_One]

Link

 

Bit of an old article, but the Cy Young discussions are starting up. Felix Hernandez is having an excellent year. However, thanks to the fact that Felix has 16 losses or no-decisions in games where he's given up 3 or fewer runs, he's sporting a 12-11 record. He's really likely to lose out to 20 game winner CC Sabathia for the AL Cy Young...despite the fact that Hernandez has out-performed Sabathia in every other meaningful metric.

[Guest]

In Hernandez's 12 losses, the Mariners have scored a total of 14 runs. They've been shut out four times in those 12 games and scored one run in five others.

 

This is like when Clemens had a sub-2.00 ERA with Houston one year but went 12-9 or something like that.

[NCCubFan]

This is like when Clemens had a sub-2.00 ERA with Houston one year but went 12-9 or something like that.

You're probably thinking of 2005. He had a career-best 1.87 ERA (which led the league) and also led the league in ERA+ and hits per 9 innings but only had a 13-8 record.

[hardcorecubfan]

Link

 

Bit of an old article, but the Cy Young discussions are starting up. Felix Hernandez is having an excellent year. However, thanks to the fact that Felix has 16 losses or no-decisions in games where he's given up 3 or fewer runs, he's sporting a 12-11 record. He's really likely to lose out to 20 game winner CC Sabathia for the AL Cy Young...despite the fact that Hernandez has out-performed Sabathia in every other meaningful metric.

 

Ya, but the most important stat Felix does not have and that is being a Yankee.

[Sammy Sofa]

http://deadspin.com/5645269/its-gallimaufry-time

[Pushfrog98]

http://deadspin.com/5645269/its-gallimaufry-time

Oh man that is great. I really miss FJM. Especially when they dish on Joe Morgan, even though he's an easy target.

[jersey cubs fan]

Last night the Rays beat CC with 13 baserunners in 5 innings scoring 7 runs.

[erik316wttn]

Also how about Ichiro? Damn!

 

10 straight years of 200+ hits, tying Pete Rose for the all-time record. And if you count his stats in Japan before he came to the States, he has more than 3,500 professional hits.

[The Logan]

Yankee homer nonsense from Rob Parker

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/columns/story?columnist=parker_rob&id=5609677

 

Still, Sabathia, who entered the game as the AL's only 20-game winner, had to be the favorite. Those other stats are fine, but they should never be more important than winning.

 

It would be one thing if Sabathia had 20 wins and a 5-plus ERA. By any standards, that's not a good ERA, and it would signal to you that that he's won games despite mediocre pitching. But that's not the case.

 

Plus, Sabathia is pitching in the toughest division in baseball with the Red Sox, Rays and Blue Jays. He's also on the biggest stage in the game. And let's not forget that Sabathia has pitched in games that matter. Hernandez hasn't pitching in a pressure-packed contest since maybe Opening Day.

 

That stuff should be factored in.

 

And for all those geeks who believe Sabathia's success is based on run support by the mighty Yankees' lineup, they couldn't be more wrong. If that were the case, A.J. Burnett would have 20 wins, too. But he hasn't pitched well enough to win.

 

C.C. Sabathia's RS/9 average is 7.34. The Yankees score an average of over 7 runs a game for C.C. Sabathia. Felix Hernandez gets 3.76.

 

If Sabathia, indeed, lost the Cy Young on this night, Price should become the front runner. He has 18 victories, and he won the big game in a big spot on the biggest stage.

 

That's what Cy Young winners do.

 

I don't know how FJM selects their articles to bash, but this needs to be one of them

[bukie]

I continue to be amazed at the number of people who don't realize that wins and losses are a team effort in a team sport.

[imb]

http://deadspin.com/5645269/its-gallimaufry-time

 

the "thank you. [expletive] you" line made me miss FJM, even if it did kind of burn itself out. I love it when we get a little reunion show.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yankee homer nonsense from Rob Parker

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/columns/story?columnist=parker_rob&id=5609677

 

Still, Sabathia, who entered the game as the AL's only 20-game winner, had to be the favorite. Those other stats are fine, but they should never be more important than winning.

 

It would be one thing if Sabathia had 20 wins and a 5-plus ERA. By any standards, that's not a good ERA, and it would signal to you that that he's won games despite mediocre pitching. But that's not the case.

 

Plus, Sabathia is pitching in the toughest division in baseball with the Red Sox, Rays and Blue Jays. He's also on the biggest stage in the game. And let's not forget that Sabathia has pitched in games that matter. Hernandez hasn't pitching in a pressure-packed contest since maybe Opening Day.

 

That stuff should be factored in.

 

And for all those geeks who believe Sabathia's success is based on run support by the mighty Yankees' lineup, they couldn't be more wrong. If that were the case, A.J. Burnett would have 20 wins, too. But he hasn't pitched well enough to win.

 

C.C. Sabathia's RS/9 average is 7.34. The Yankees score an average of over 7 runs a game for C.C. Sabathia. Felix Hernandez gets 3.76.

 

If Sabathia, indeed, lost the Cy Young on this night, Price should become the front runner. He has 18 victories, and he won the big game in a big spot on the biggest stage.

 

That's what Cy Young winners do.

 

I don't know how FJM selects their articles to bash, but this needs to be one of them

 

Holy [expletive], that is infuriating. Whoever came up with pitching W/L is an [expletive]. What a useless stat.

[rocket]

in response to the thread title, the pirates have been even worse this season. their run differential is -284. the next worse team in that department, the orioles, is -173, an over 100 run difference.

 

i could be off, and i'm not gonna look it up now, but -284 (and counting) has got to be at least close to the record for worst run differential.

[Guest]

in response to the thread title, the pirates have been even worse this season. their run differential is -284. the next worse team in that department, the orioles, is -173, an over 100 run difference.

 

i could be off, and i'm not gonna look it up now, but -284 (and counting) has got to be at least close to the record for worst run differential.

 

Just looking at the recent standings on ESPN.com, Detroit in 2003 was at -337 and they're the worst since 2002.

[TruffleShuffle]

in response to the thread title, the pirates have been even worse this season. their run differential is -284. the next worse team in that department, the orioles, is -173, an over 100 run difference.

 

i could be off, and i'm not gonna look it up now, but -284 (and counting) has got to be at least close to the record for worst run differential.

 

Just looking at the recent standings on ESPN.com, Detroit in 2003 was at -337 and they're the worst since 2002.

 

the 1962 mets were -331, the 1996 tigers were -320 (they allowed 1103 runs, which is just unbelievably bad) and the 1916 philadelphia athletics were -329.

 

undoubtedly the worst of all time is the immortal 1899 cleveland spider team that went 20-134. they scored 529 runs and allowed 1252, for a differential of 723 runs. they allowed nearly one run per inning and had a team WHIP of 1.88, to go along with 388 errors and a team OPS of .605. amazing.

[OleMissCub]

To be fair, that 388 errors isn't that abnormal for the time. The Cubs (Orphans technically) that same year had 428.

[NCCubFan]

Even Starlin Castro's error total would have seemed good by standards of that era.

[SouthSideRyan]

The Spiders weren't really a major league team though.

[hardcorecubfan]

Also how about Ichiro? Damn!

 

10 straight years of 200+ hits, tying Pete Rose for the all-time record. And if you count his stats in Japan before he came to the States, he has more than 3,500 professional hits.

 

I remember when his initial contract was up I was ridiculed for suggesting that we go after him because he was getting to old

 

Nice career, best thing out of Japan

[TruffleShuffle]

if you combine ichiro's hits for orix with his hits for the mariners he'd have about 3,300 hits with no real signs of slowing down. if he'd started his career in the majors he'd very likely have more than that number since the japanese season is only 130 games or something. i'm pretty sure if he'd played in MLB his entire career he would have broken pete rose's record and had a decent shot at 5,000 hits.

[chuckywang]

I would think if he had played in the MLB from the start, he would have been a pitcher:

[TruffleShuffle]

that's pretty cool. but he still didn't crack 90 mph.

 

by the way, imagine if a manager let a position player pitch in an mlb all-star game? these days there's no way it would happen (plus "now it means something" or whatever)

 

this is a cool video with some of his throws/catches while playing OF in japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfXRjE9vjYI

[Jake]

This is all moot.

 

We win.

 

With a Seattle victory last night, we clinched the first pick in June's draft.

[Post Count Padder]

My friends at home are Yankees fans. I can barely talk to them about baseball because they're such huge homers. Basically the stereotypical Yankees fans, though they have been a little more rational recently. Basically they asked me the other day who I thought would win the Cy Young. I said Felix Hernandez or David Price. They were appalled by my answer and feel that Sabathia is the run away winner. I tried arguing, to no avail. Their main reasoning, of course, was he wins games.

 

He's having a great year. But he's not the best pitcher in the league.

[Guest]

This is all moot.

 

We win.

 

With a Seattle victory last night, we clinched the first pick in June's draft.

Do you take another 3B and move one to first? Or do you grab one of the pitchers?