Cashner to Iowa / Vitters to Tenn / Flaherty to Daytona

[scarey]

I'm more concerned about Flaherty's demotion. I think he could have used more time to work through his problems, and I would think there is still room for him... unless they really want to give Marwin Gonzalez a significant amount of at bats, I think there was enough ABs to go round.

 

Also, I wonder if we'll see a Daytona starter bumped up to Tenn in the next week to take Cashner's vacated place. It's a real log jam in Daytona as it is. Dolis seems to be the obvious candidate for promotion with maybe Schafer going back to starting? Would be great if Schafer can translate his relief production into his starting game.

[mul21]

Bruce Levine seems to think that Cashner may be targeted for the bullpen "out of necessity". I'm sorry, but well-run organizations do not move their top starting pitcher prospects to the bullpen just to fill a hole. If if turns out that Cashner doesn't have the endurance or durability to be a Major League starter, that's fine, but at least give him a chance to succeed before throwing him into the bullpen.

Yeah that's like the Yankees sedning Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes to the pen at first. Or the Twins sending Johan Santana or Francisco Liriano there. Or the Cardinals sending Adam Wainwright there. Good teams never do that.

 

Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to ask who the closer was on that Cardinals 2006 WS winner. That was certainly a move made out of necessity more than anything else. Of course, there's the yoyo thing the Cubs like to do. If they put him in the pen the rest of the year and leave him, then move him back to starting next year and leave him, fine. Just don't give him the Samardzija treatment.

[Guest]

Adam Wainwright was more Mitch Atkins than Andrew Cashner when he got put in the Cardinal pen. It's not the worst thing in the world if he goes to the pen, but the Cubs haven't exactly been pros at handling that situation well, and Cashner still needs innings given his injury history/amateur past.

[Guest]

Bruce Levine seems to think that Cashner may be targeted for the bullpen "out of necessity". I'm sorry, but well-run organizations do not move their top starting pitcher prospects to the bullpen just to fill a hole. If if turns out that Cashner doesn't have the endurance or durability to be a Major League starter, that's fine, but at least give him a chance to succeed before throwing him into the bullpen.

 

You forgot 'lack of a third pitch'. I think he is much more of a relief prospect and a mediocre SP prospect

 

You're reading an old scouting report.

[Guest]

I'm more concerned about Flaherty's demotion. I think he could have used more time to work through his problems, and I would think there is still room for him... unless they really want to give Marwin Gonzalez a significant amount of at bats, I think there was enough ABs to go round.

 

Also, I wonder if we'll see a Daytona starter bumped up to Tenn in the next week to take Cashner's vacated place. It's a real log jam in Daytona as it is. Dolis seems to be the obvious candidate for promotion with maybe Schafer going back to starting? Would be great if Schafer can translate his relief production into his starting game.

 

Don't even need to bump anyone up to the rotation. They already have 6 in right now with Archer, Cabrera, Dolis, Raley, Rhee and Rusin.

[wvcbxl]

Bruce Levine seems to think that Cashner may be targeted for the bullpen "out of necessity".

 

What necessity?

The Cubs aren't going anywhere in 2010.

[KaiserCesar]

Bruce Levine seems to think that Cashner may be targeted for the bullpen "out of necessity". I'm sorry, but well-run organizations do not move their top starting pitcher prospects to the bullpen just to fill a hole. If if turns out that Cashner doesn't have the endurance or durability to be a Major League starter, that's fine, but at least give him a chance to succeed before throwing him into the bullpen.

 

You forgot 'lack of a third pitch'. I think he is much more of a relief prospect and a mediocre SP prospect

 

You're reading an old scouting report.

 

If by reading you mean remembering, then you are correct. So, is it the changeup that he developed?

[bannor10]

Bruce Levine seems to think that Cashner may be targeted for the bullpen "out of necessity".

 

What necessity?

The Cubs aren't going anywhere in 2010.

good one

[bannor10]

I don't think having cashner get some big league experience in the pen is a bad thing at all. Most pitchers cut there teeth going that route...Now jerking them back and forth between aaa starting and bull pin doesn't work well

[scarey]

I'm more concerned about Flaherty's demotion. I think he could have used more time to work through his problems, and I would think there is still room for him... unless they really want to give Marwin Gonzalez a significant amount of at bats, I think there was enough ABs to go round.

 

Also, I wonder if we'll see a Daytona starter bumped up to Tenn in the next week to take Cashner's vacated place. It's a real log jam in Daytona as it is. Dolis seems to be the obvious candidate for promotion with maybe Schafer going back to starting? Would be great if Schafer can translate his relief production into his starting game.

 

Don't even need to bump anyone up to the rotation. They already have 6 in right now with Archer, Cabrera, Dolis, Raley, Rhee and Rusin.

 

Aren't Rusin, Rhee, and Archer taking turns piggy backing? If Schafer needs to piggy back, that's fine. I just thought it was too early to give up on him as a starter especially given his strong second half last year.

[toonsterwu]

Bruce Levine seems to think that Cashner may be targeted for the bullpen "out of necessity". I'm sorry, but well-run organizations do not move their top starting pitcher prospects to the bullpen just to fill a hole. If if turns out that Cashner doesn't have the endurance or durability to be a Major League starter, that's fine, but at least give him a chance to succeed before throwing him into the bullpen.

 

You forgot 'lack of a third pitch'. I think he is much more of a relief prospect and a mediocre SP prospect

 

You're reading an old scouting report.

 

If by reading you mean remembering, then you are correct. So, is it the changeup that he developed?

 

Early reports on the circle-change are very positive. Granted, it's still early so let's see it hold up, but at the very least, the potential is there for it to be a solid pitch, which is all he needs to stick as a starter.

[toonsterwu]

Adam Wainwright was more Mitch Atkins than Andrew Cashner when he got put in the Cardinal pen. It's not the worst thing in the world if he goes to the pen, but the Cubs haven't exactly been pros at handling that situation well, and Cashner still needs innings given his injury history/amateur past.

 

I don't think that's accurate (Wainwright more Atkins than Cashner). Actually, I think you could make a case that Wainwright was thought of, at the same stage, as a equal, if not better, prospect than Cashner, but they are fairly close. Wainwright was a well-though of arm in the Braves system with a plus fastball that got to the mid-90's. He also had a good curveball, a potential plus pitch coming up that was inconsistent, and in AA, he had a solid changeup. The control slipped a bit when he went to the Cardinals, but I don't recall if there was a specific issue. He was the Braves top prospect in 2003, the Cardinals number 2 prospect in 2004.

[Guest]

Adam Wainwright was more Mitch Atkins than Andrew Cashner when he got put in the Cardinal pen. It's not the worst thing in the world if he goes to the pen, but the Cubs haven't exactly been pros at handling that situation well, and Cashner still needs innings given his injury history/amateur past.

 

I don't think that's accurate (Wainwright more Atkins than Cashner). Actually, I think you could make a case that Wainwright was thought of, at the same stage, as a equal, if not better, prospect than Cashner, but they are fairly close. Wainwright was a well-though of arm in the Braves system with a plus fastball that got to the mid-90's. He also had a good curveball, a potential plus pitch coming up that was inconsistent, and in AA, he had a solid changeup. The control slipped a bit when he went to the Cardinals, but I don't recall if there was a specific issue. He was the Braves top prospect in 2003, the Cardinals number 2 prospect in 2004.

 

He was well regarded when he came over from Atlanta, but then he had 2 full seasons of mediocre performance before making the Cardinal pen in 2006. He wasn't a case of breaking in a top prospect in order to get him MLB time, he had fallen off the radar and they were trying to get some use out of him.

[NCCubFan]

I don't think having cashner get some big league experience in the pen is a bad thing at all. Most pitchers cut there teeth going that route...Now jerking them back and forth between aaa starting and bull pin doesn't work well

Getting poked by a bull pin hurts. :D

 

Seriously, although I don't know if it's accurate to say MOST pitchers start in the pen, it does happen frequently. Nolan Ryan, Fergie Jenkins, and Pedro Martinez are just a few examples of current or future Hall of Famers that started their major league careers as relievers or swingmen.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Since I didn't get a response in the other Castro thread... Who is leaving Iowa to make room for Tracy and Cashner?

[XZero771679666304]

Adam Wainwright was more Mitch Atkins than Andrew Cashner when he got put in the Cardinal pen. It's not the worst thing in the world if he goes to the pen, but the Cubs haven't exactly been pros at handling that situation well, and Cashner still needs innings given his injury history/amateur past.

 

I don't think that's accurate (Wainwright more Atkins than Cashner). Actually, I think you could make a case that Wainwright was thought of, at the same stage, as a equal, if not better, prospect than Cashner, but they are fairly close. Wainwright was a well-though of arm in the Braves system with a plus fastball that got to the mid-90's. He also had a good curveball, a potential plus pitch coming up that was inconsistent, and in AA, he had a solid changeup. The control slipped a bit when he went to the Cardinals, but I don't recall if there was a specific issue. He was the Braves top prospect in 2003, the Cardinals number 2 prospect in 2004.

 

He was well regarded when he came over from Atlanta, but then he had 2 full seasons of mediocre performance before making the Cardinal pen in 2006. He wasn't a case of breaking in a top prospect in order to get him MLB time, he had fallen off the radar and they were trying to get some use out of him.

 

I even recall reading that Atlanta had soured a bit on him before they made the trade, and then he didn't really perform all that well after. It certainly turned out well for the Cards, but I don't think too many people were thinking he would be a good, front line starter when he was called up to the pen.

[NCCubFan]

One of the moves, according to the Smokies' web site, is that pitcher Mike Parisi is going from Iowa to Tennessee. I don't know what the other move is; maybe somebody's going on the 7-day DL.

[ctcf]

I'm upset because there are no more Jackson/Cashner days.

[Little Slide Rooter]

No more Jackson/Cashner day :(

[NCCubFan]

One of the moves, according to the Smokies' web site, is that pitcher Mike Parisi is going from Iowa to Tennessee. I don't know what the other move is; maybe somebody's going on the 7-day DL.

I just checked the transactions list on the Iowa web site and all that it shows is Cashner up and Parisi down. It doesn't even show Tracy joining from the Cubs. I believe a player has 72 hours to report after being sent down from the majors, so they probably won't need to make a move until Tracy reports.

[davell]

I figured Vitters would start off in Tennessee to begin with and I wouldn't have been unhappy if he had been honestly. His numbers aren't eye-popping in Daytona, but I think he'll be fine personally. Flaherty has struggled obviously and while I wish we had given him more time to work things out, we haven't seen what his at bats are looking like either. They could literally be as bad, or worse possibly, than what his average indicates anyway. We just don't know, he may really be overmatched.

 

I kind of hope B Jax gets moved up quickly now too, as i think his power will reappear once he's in Tennessee.

 

Cashner getting moved to Iowa, I like. I hope he doesn't wind up in the major league pen this year, although I think he probably will. Although, it's not the end of the world, if he does. I just don't want him being yo-yo'd around like Samardzija has been. I'd much rather see him get a fulltime shot at starting next season at the very least. That said, it's no guarantee they'd bring him up to use him in the pen anyway. An injury or someone really starts to struggle and one of him or J Jax will be called up anyway.

[Guest]

Cashner getting moved to Iowa, I like. I hope he doesn't wind up in the major league pen this year, although I think he probably will. Although, it's not the end of the world, if he does. I just don't want him being yo-yo'd around like Samardzija has been. I'd much rather see him get a fulltime shot at starting next season at the very least. That said, it's no guarantee they'd bring him up to use him in the pen anyway. An injury or someone really starts to struggle and one of him or J Jax will be called up anyway.

 

You could add Casey Coleman to that list.

 

I don't mind breaking a starter in via the pen, but I would rather avoid that with Cashner since he hasn't logged as many starter innings in as most prospects. I don't want him going into 2011 as a starter with his limited 2009 IP being his career high.

[davell]

Cashner getting moved to Iowa, I like. I hope he doesn't wind up in the major league pen this year, although I think he probably will. Although, it's not the end of the world, if he does. I just don't want him being yo-yo'd around like Samardzija has been. I'd much rather see him get a fulltime shot at starting next season at the very least. That said, it's no guarantee they'd bring him up to use him in the pen anyway. An injury or someone really starts to struggle and one of him or J Jax will be called up anyway.

 

You could add Casey Coleman to that list.

 

I don't mind breaking a starter in via the pen, but I would rather avoid that with Cashner since he hasn't logged as many starter innings in as most prospects. I don't want him going into 2011 as a starter with his limited 2009 IP being his career high.

 

You know, I almost put Coleman in there with them, but I just see him and Barney getting traded for some reason, since we have better options around. That said, I really think Coleman will have a solid major league career as a 4/5 guy and Barney should have a long career in the majors as well, possibly as a fulltime SS, or possibly as a solid utility guy.

[Outshined_One]

I don't mind breaking a starter in via the pen, but I would rather avoid that with Cashner since he hasn't logged as many starter innings in as most prospects. I don't want him going into 2011 as a starter with his limited 2009 IP being his career high.

 

Bingo.

 

This isn't a case involving a pitching prospect who is already pretty far along in his development and could benefit from work out of the major league pen in terms of saving his arm, exposing him to major league hitters, etc. Cashner is a harder case because he still has work to do on his third pitch and also because he has never had a full professional season where he's pitched more than 100 1/3 innings. Granted, he was a starter before going to TCU for his junior year, but his stuff wasn't nearly as good.

 

If the Cubs have any intention of keeping Cashner as a SP, this season would not be a good time to break him in via the bullpen. If he pitches 150 innings this season, his change is a good pitch, and he's shown no signs of breaking down or exhaustion, fine, do it next season. Don't do it this season because this bullpen needs help.

[Cubswin11]

Bruce Levine seems to think that Cashner may be targeted for the bullpen "out of necessity". I'm sorry, but well-run organizations do not move their top starting pitcher prospects to the bullpen just to fill a hole. If if turns out that Cashner doesn't have the endurance or durability to be a Major League starter, that's fine, but at least give him a chance to succeed before throwing him into the bullpen.

Yeah that's like the Yankees sedning Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes to the pen at first. Or the Twins sending Johan Santana or Francisco Liriano there. Or the Cardinals sending Adam Wainwright there. Good teams never do that.

David Price with the Rays, Rangers are doing it with Feliz right now and most still think he will end up a starter, Red Sox with Papelbon and Bucholz. There is evidence of other teams doing it with top prospects to fill holes and those guys end up as starters down the line when spots open up (which has usually been within the next season or two).