Re: Jake Fox and Aaron Miles traded to Oakland for 3 prospects

[jersey cubs fan]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

[Prizefight]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

 

 

Don't poo poo on Jim. I think we all should take 24 entire hours and focus on a move that actually has a bit of logic and improves our ballclub.

 

 

Tomorrow we can lament at the fact that he's fixing mistakes.

[jersey cubs fan]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

 

 

Don't poo poo on Jim. I think we all should take 24 entire hours and focus on a move that actually has a bit of logic and improves our ballclub.

 

 

Tomorrow we can lament at the fact that he's fixing mistakes.

 

I just don't see the point in applauding a move that only accomplishes making a previous move less bad. Every single transaction affects other transactions and can only be judged in the big picture of the state of the franchise.

[Prizefight]

 

I just don't see the point in applauding a move that only accomplishes making a previous move less bad. Every single transaction affects other transactions and can only be judged in the big picture of the state of the franchise.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you.

 

 

 

Just trying to see the glass is somewhat half full for a bit today. Positive baseball thoughts makes the snow less awful

[mul21]

 

I just don't see the point in applauding a move that only accomplishes making a previous move less bad. Every single transaction affects other transactions and can only be judged in the big picture of the state of the franchise.

 

I agree with you for the most part, but he didn't just fix a mistake. He brought back some potentially useful pieces for a guy who didn't really have a future with the Cubs.

[biittner77]

Interesting move. Adds another reliever to the AAA shuttle which is definitely a plus since it gives more flexibility than last year, ie they can bring Caridad, Stevens, Gaub and now Gray up and down as necessary.

 

This moves Baker into the backup 3rd base position which is a downgrade offensively but a huge upgrade defensively over Fox. This also helps clear the way for the Theriot to 2nd base move. It also allows them to keep Blanco up as a backup that can actually play SS.

 

In so far as this is Hendry fixing a mistake, while that's true it maybe is keeping him from making another mistake by bringing in another vet reliever and paying him $3.5 mill. That takes the sting out of having to pay Miles to go away.

[Guest]

beane must have owed hendry a favor something. or he's buttering him up now so he can screw us on a trade later.

 

wtg jim

 

J.P. Blevins and Mike Wuertz

 

Cubs have given up Damien Miller, Jerry Blevins, Mike Wuertz, Rob Bowen, Sean Gallagher, Eric Patterson, Josh Donaldson and Matt Murton

 

In return they've gotten Rich Harden, Michael Barrett, Jason Kendall, Chad Gaudin, Richie Robnett, and Justin Sellers.

 

I'd say Hendry is whupping Beane's ass right now.

 

Yeah, the Wuertz trade is the only one that Beane has really won. Even the Blevins trade hasn't been a problem for the Cubs after they got a little lucky and managed to net Flaherty because of Kendall.

 

While I will agree with you and Rob that the Cubs have come out looking much better on these deals, I will say that it isn't really a fair fight. Oakland is a small market team that is constantly forced to move their veteran talent (bonified major leaguers) for prospects that may or may not make the big leagues (the ratio of minor leaguers who make the bigs is not very good, let alone to become veteran major leaguers) to knock down payroll while Jimbo has the ability to retain his veteran players AND increase payroll. We are kicking Pittsburgh's butt too, but again, not a fair fight.

[CubColtPacer]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

 

 

Don't poo poo on Jim. I think we all should take 24 entire hours and focus on a move that actually has a bit of logic and improves our ballclub.

 

 

Tomorrow we can lament at the fact that he's fixing mistakes.

 

I just don't see the point in applauding a move that only accomplishes making a previous move less bad. Every single transaction affects other transactions and can only be judged in the big picture of the state of the franchise.

 

So when they trade away a productive underpaid player it shouldn't be criticized because in the long-term state of the franchise getting that player in the first place was still a good move?

 

For example, Hendry made the Harden and Miles moves just a few months apart. And now he's undone both of them. The Harden move wasn't a mistake in the first place so he was applauded for getting him and then criticized for letting him go. The Miles move was a mistake so he was criticized when he got them and he should therefore be praised when he gets rid of him in a pretty productive move.

 

Measuring everything by the long-term state of the franchise is unrealistic because teams frequently make both good and bad decisions involving one player.

 

That doesn't mean Hendry is absolved from signing Miles. His time with the Cubs is still a net negative. But it's a more positive than it was 24 hours ago.

[Backtobanks]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

 

I'm trying to sift through all of this Hendry-hate to find some logic in some of these posts. Hendry made a mistake in signing Miles, but now we want to criticize him for making a very good trade and dumping Miles because he sent $1 million to the A's? Last year most posters were willing to DFA Miles and eat his whole contract. Hendry got 3 young, cheap players for a player with no position in the NL and Miles and we don't want to give him an ounce of credit for not only correcting a mistake, but turning it into a positive.

[jersey cubs fan]

So when they trade away a productive underpaid player it shouldn't be criticized because in the long-term state of the franchise getting that player in the first place was still a good move?

 

For example, Hendry made the Harden and Miles moves just a few months apart. And now he's undone both of them. The Harden move wasn't a mistake in the first place so he was applauded for getting him and then criticized for letting him go. The Miles move was a mistake so he was criticized when he got them and he should therefore be praised when he gets rid of him in a pretty productive move.

 

Measuring everything by the long-term state of the franchise is unrealistic because teams frequently make both good and bad decisions involving one player.

 

That doesn't mean Hendry is absolved from signing Miles. His time with the Cubs is still a net negative. But it's a more positive than it was 24 hours ago.

 

Sorry, but this is a really stupid question and scenario.

 

A GM's job is to make good moves to improve the team. Acquiring Harden was good, until he let him go for nothing (assuming that is what eventually happens).

 

A negative move sets the team back, partially fixing that mistake doesn't leave the team ahead, it still leaves them with a mistake, only slightly less so.

 

You have to constantly improve your team or it will decay on its own. Good moves and bad moves don't offset each other to keep the team constant.

[Guest]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

 

 

Don't poo poo on Jim. I think we all should take 24 entire hours and focus on a move that actually has a bit of logic and improves our ballclub.

 

 

Tomorrow we can lament at the fact that he's fixing mistakes.

 

I just don't see the point in applauding a move that only accomplishes making a previous move less bad. Every single transaction affects other transactions and can only be judged in the big picture of the state of the franchise.

 

So when they trade away a productive underpaid player it shouldn't be criticized because in the long-term state of the franchise getting that player in the first place was still a good move?

 

For example, Hendry made the Harden and Miles moves just a few months apart. And now he's undone both of them. The Harden move wasn't a mistake in the first place so he was applauded for getting him and then criticized for letting him go. The Miles move was a mistake so he was criticized when he got them and he should therefore be praised when he gets rid of him in a pretty productive move.

 

Measuring everything by the long-term state of the franchise is unrealistic because teams frequently make both good and bad decisions involving one player.

 

That doesn't mean Hendry is absolved from signing Miles. His time with the Cubs is still a net negative. But it's a more positive than it was 24 hours ago.

 

I have to argue with you on this one. If the Cubs were coming off a World Series appearance or even went deep into the playoffs, I think this move could then be applauded. But when the GM makes yet another boneheaded move that he is now undoing, it's after another unsuccessful season. In other words, the bad move probably helped contribute to the unsuccessful season, therefore it's hard to justify him fixing the mistake.

 

Also, if he was bringing in more Harden's and bringing in less Miles guys, I could agree with you there also. But, he continues to make these bad mistakes that will just require fixing later. Grabow is the newest mistake and he made that one before he even started undoing last year's.

[pitchcs]

8:00 am alarm -- Aaron Miles has been traded...woke me up real quick

 

Pretty happy with the trade. Without fact-checking, it's extremely hard for me to remember a worse season by a Cubs player since I have been following the team ('88)

[jersey cubs fan]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

 

I'm trying to sift through all of this Hendry-hate to find some logic in some of these posts. Hendry made a mistake in signing Miles, but now we want to criticize him for making a very good trade and dumping Miles because he sent $1 million to the A's?

 

Is it really that complicated? Are you really that blind?

 

I'm not criticizing him for the move. I'm also not applauding him for patching a mistake. Some people got all giddy because he improved the 2006 team, forgetting that the 2006 mess was all his doing in the first place. Some people say he had to go get Soriano because of the complete lack of outfield talent in the system, so they applaud him for that. But the lack of any talent in the outfield was his fault in the first place. Figuring out how to dump Marquis while only paying part of his salary was applauded by many who thought it would be impossible to move Marquis, but he was only in that position because he signed him in the first place.

 

You don't get credit as a GM for putting band aids on your self inflicted wounds.

[CubColtPacer]

beane must have owed hendry a favor something. or he's buttering him up now so he can screw us on a trade later.

 

wtg jim

 

J.P. Blevins and Mike Wuertz

 

Cubs have given up Damien Miller, Jerry Blevins, Mike Wuertz, Rob Bowen, Sean Gallagher, Eric Patterson, Josh Donaldson and Matt Murton

 

In return they've gotten Rich Harden, Michael Barrett, Jason Kendall, Chad Gaudin, Richie Robnett, and Justin Sellers.

 

I'd say Hendry is whupping Beane's ass right now.

 

Yeah, the Wuertz trade is the only one that Beane has really won. Even the Blevins trade hasn't been a problem for the Cubs after they got a little lucky and managed to net Flaherty because of Kendall.

 

While I will agree with you and Rob that the Cubs have come out looking much better on these deals, I will say that it isn't really a fair fight. Oakland is a small market team that is constantly forced to move their veteran talent (bonified major leaguers) for prospects that may or may not make the big leagues (the ratio of minor leaguers who make the bigs is not very good, let alone to become veteran major leaguers) to knock down payroll while Jimbo has the ability to retain his veteran players AND increase payroll. We are kicking Pittsburgh's butt too, but again, not a fair fight.

 

Payroll has not been a key factor of any of those trades though. Barrett and Miller made about the same amount of money (Miller actually made more but the Cubs sent cash to offset the difference). The Kendall trade was just Beane trying to get anything he could get for a player that wasn't helping a team that was already out of contention (he didn't anticipate that Kendall would play better with the Cubs and drive up enough interest that the Cubs ended up receiving a compensatory pick for him). The Harden trade was Beane trying to trade a pitcher after he had finally shown health for a couple of months. And now this trade the Athletics took on money and traded prospects away.

 

So the biggest win for the Cubs (Barrett) had nothing to do with money. And the others had very little to do with money. In two of those four trades Beane got the veteran in the deal.

 

So while I agree that Oakland as a whole has to make some deals because of money, their dealings with the Cubs haven't really been about that. It's just a matter as Tim said of the Cubs and Athletics liking different things in players making them natural trading partners and so far the Cubs have won in that department (with the exception of Wuertz).

[Guest]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

 

I'm trying to sift through all of this Hendry-hate to find some logic in some of these posts. Hendry made a mistake in signing Miles, but now we want to criticize him for making a very good trade and dumping Miles because he sent $1 million to the A's? Last year most posters were willing to DFA Miles and eat his whole contract. Hendry got 3 young, cheap players for a player with no position in the NL and Miles and we don't want to give him an ounce of credit for not only correcting a mistake, but turning it into a positive.

 

Hendry is to be judged based on his overall body of work, not on how well he corrects mistakes. His job is to put the best team on the field he possibly can. His overall body of work is just not good, and trading Miles doesn't change that.

[kujay]

Hendry is to be judged based on his overall body of work, not on how well he corrects mistakes. His job is to put the best team on the field he possibly can. His overall body of work is just not good, and trading Miles doesn't change that.

 

Exactly.

 

But it is a good move for the team.

[Sammy Sofa]

It seems pretty obvious that we got these players for Fox, not Miles. Hendry didn't "get" anything for Miles except off the hook for just under $2 million dollars.

[Guest]

Hendry is to be judged based on his overall body of work, not on how well he corrects mistakes. His job is to put the best team on the field he possibly can. His overall body of work is just not good, and trading Miles doesn't change that.

 

Exactly.

 

But it is a good move for the team.

 

I never actually said it was a bad move. I'm just not willing to extend all that much credit to the guy who made the mistake in the first place. Make a bad move and make a good move to cover up the fact you made a bad move is basically a lateral movement.

 

If you go back to my first response on the Miles trade, I changed Hendry's offseason grade from an F- to just an F. Further proof I was not the one who said it was a bad move.

[RedFlash]

This moves Baker into the backup 3rd base position which is a downgrade offensively but a huge upgrade defensively over Fox. This also helps clear the way for the Theriot to 2nd base move. It also allows them to keep Blanco up as a backup that can actually play SS.

 

I agree that this move opens the door for Baker to move into the super sub role with the team but I have this funny feeling that this trade isn't going to open the door for Theriot move to 2B, but the opening to close the Castillo to the Cubs, Burrell to the Mets, Bradley to the Rays trade we've heard so much about.

 

I hope I am wrong, tho.

[A-Cal]

This moves Baker into the backup 3rd base position which is a downgrade offensively but a huge upgrade defensively over Fox. This also helps clear the way for the Theriot to 2nd base move. It also allows them to keep Blanco up as a backup that can actually play SS.

 

I agree that this move opens the door for Baker to move into the super sub role with the team but I have this funny feeling that this trade isn't going to open the door for Theriot move to 2B, but the opening to close the Castillo to the Cubs, Burrell to the Mets, Bradley to the Rays trade we've heard so much about.

 

I hope I am wrong, tho.

 

well it is better than us getting GMJ

[Little Slide Rooter]

This moves Baker into the backup 3rd base position which is a downgrade offensively but a huge upgrade defensively over Fox. This also helps clear the way for the Theriot to 2nd base move. It also allows them to keep Blanco up as a backup that can actually play SS.

 

I agree that this move opens the door for Baker to move into the super sub role with the team but I have this funny feeling that this trade isn't going to open the door for Theriot move to 2B, but the opening to close the Castillo to the Cubs, Burrell to the Mets, Bradley to the Rays trade we've heard so much about.

 

I hope I am wrong, tho.

 

well it is better than us getting GMJ

 

Sadly, I wouldnt count it out.

[Backtobanks]

Not a bad trade on the surface, but like most of Hendry's moves, it's stained with his own stupidity. He had to pay somebody else to take another mistake off his hands. So while it saves them some money, it doesn't save them from the mistake of Miles. And when people start talking payroll everybody will forget the million he is paying for a guy not to play for the Cubs, again.

 

I'm trying to sift through all of this Hendry-hate to find some logic in some of these posts. Hendry made a mistake in signing Miles, but now we want to criticize him for making a very good trade and dumping Miles because he sent $1 million to the A's?

 

Is it really that complicated? Are you really that blind?

 

I'm not criticizing him for the move. I'm also not applauding him for patching a mistake. Some people got all giddy because he improved the 2006 team, forgetting that the 2006 mess was all his doing in the first place. Some people say he had to go get Soriano because of the complete lack of outfield talent in the system, so they applaud him for that. But the lack of any talent in the outfield was his fault in the first place. Figuring out how to dump Marquis while only paying part of his salary was applauded by many who thought it would be impossible to move Marquis, but he was only in that position because he signed him in the first place.

 

You don't get credit as a GM for putting band aids on your self inflicted wounds.

 

So the only solution is for Hendry never to make a mistake? Hendry is working under a limited budget this year and so far he's cleared some dead weight (Miles, Heilman, Gregg) and saved money while getting some good prospects in return. You don't get credit for putting band aids on self inflicted wounds, but that's better than letting them fester forever.

[inari]

He's also signed John Grabow to an absurd contract.

[Tim M]

This moves Baker into the backup 3rd base position which is a downgrade offensively but a huge upgrade defensively over Fox. This also helps clear the way for the Theriot to 2nd base move. It also allows them to keep Blanco up as a backup that can actually play SS.

 

I agree that this move opens the door for Baker to move into the super sub role with the team but I have this funny feeling that this trade isn't going to open the door for Theriot move to 2B, but the opening to close the Castillo to the Cubs, Burrell to the Mets, Bradley to the Rays trade we've heard so much about.

 

I hope I am wrong, tho.

 

Theriot is the opening day SS. I just can't imagine Castro would start in the big leagues. I'd rather have Castillo than Burrell in the Bradley deal, at least Castillo may have some use on the Cubs.

[jersey cubs fan]

So the only solution is for Hendry never to make a mistake? Hendry is working under a limited budget this year and so far he's cleared some dead weight (Miles, Heilman, Gregg) and saved money while getting some good prospects in return. You don't get credit for putting band aids on self inflicted wounds, but that's better than letting them fester forever.

 

Hendry is not working on a limited budget. He's working with a huge budget. It's his fault that he tied up so much money as to make it tight already while the team is still in need of upgrades. And it doesn't help that part of that budget is being spent to pay people to play elsewhere, peole he foolishly guaranteed contracts to when it was well known that the team was for sale and future payrolls were in doubt.