Re: Jake Fox and Aaron Miles traded to Oakland for 3 prospects

[Tim M]

So the only solution is for Hendry never to make a mistake? Hendry is working under a limited budget this year and so far he's cleared some dead weight (Miles, Heilman, Gregg) and saved money while getting some good prospects in return. You don't get credit for putting band aids on self inflicted wounds, but that's better than letting them fester forever.

 

Hendry is not working on a limited budget. He's working with a huge budget. It's his fault that he tied up so much money as to make it tight already while the team is still in need of upgrades. And it doesn't help that part of that budget is being spent to pay people to play elsewhere, peole he foolishly guaranteed contracts to when it was well known that the team was for sale and future payrolls were in doubt.

 

I don't think the Cubs really have any outrageous contracts other than Soriano. And I've always believed Soriano was a desperation publicity move by the Trib in their waning days.

[dew1679666265]

Sorry, but this is a really stupid question and scenario.

 

A GM's job is to make good moves to improve the team. Acquiring Harden was good, until he let him go for nothing (assuming that is what eventually happens).

 

A negative move sets the team back, partially fixing that mistake doesn't leave the team ahead, it still leaves them with a mistake, only slightly less so.

 

You have to constantly improve your team or it will decay on its own. Good moves and bad moves don't offset each other to keep the team constant.

 

What if the fix to the mistake is better than the mistake itself? For example, Hendry signed Miles to a bench role last year and Miles got all of 170 plate appearances. He was then traded (along with Fox) for three interesting minor leaguers.

 

What if one or more of those minor leaguers end up helping us this year or in the future more than Miles hurt us last year? I don't know how many wins Miles cost us, but in 170 PAs, I can't imagine it's that many. So what if it ends up being that Hendry made a minor mistake (paying Miles $3.5 million), but corrected it by bringing in 1-2 young players who can help us for a number of years cheaply? Gray seems like the kind of reliever who could be quite useful this year.

[Wheelimus]

I'll miss Fox's bat on our bench, but it's hard to argue against any trade that gets rid of Aaron Miles and gets more than a bag of balls in return.

 

Now I just hope we aren't trading John Grabow + half his salary for a bag of balls next offseason.

[jersey cubs fan]

[

What if the fix to the mistake is better than the mistake itself? For example, Hendry signed Miles to a bench role last year and Miles got all of 170 plate appearances. He was then traded (along with Fox) for three interesting minor leaguers.

 

What if one or more of those minor leaguers end up helping us this year or in the future more than Miles hurt us last year? I don't know how many wins Miles cost us, but in 170 PAs, I can't imagine it's that many. So what if it ends up being that Hendry made a minor mistake (paying Miles $3.5 million), but corrected it by bringing in 1-2 young players who can help us for a number of years cheaply? Gray seems like the kind of reliever who could be quite useful this year.

 

You also traded away a guy in Fox who can be useful doing things this team actually need, scoring runs, as opposed to another mediocre arm doing things this team doesn't have that much trouble with. And Miles wasn't brought here to give 170 PAs, part of the problem of having him on the roster was the complete lack of replacement when Ramirez went down. There's an opportunity cost there that is more than just what Miles did. Gray is a 28 year old who wasn't a particularly good minor leaguer and hasn't been a particularly good major leaguer. He's the quintessential dime a dozen bullpen arm.

[inari]

So the only solution is for Hendry never to make a mistake? Hendry is working under a limited budget this year and so far he's cleared some dead weight (Miles, Heilman, Gregg) and saved money while getting some good prospects in return. You don't get credit for putting band aids on self inflicted wounds, but that's better than letting them fester forever.

 

Hendry is not working on a limited budget. He's working with a huge budget. It's his fault that he tied up so much money as to make it tight already while the team is still in need of upgrades. And it doesn't help that part of that budget is being spent to pay people to play elsewhere, peole he foolishly guaranteed contracts to when it was well known that the team was for sale and future payrolls were in doubt.

 

I don't think the Cubs really have any outrageous contracts other than Soriano. And I've always believed Soriano was a desperation publicity move by the Trib in their waning days.

 

Bad contacts given by Hendry are as follows; Zambrano, Soriano, Fukudome, Miles (ta ta), Grabow, Hawkins, Eyre, Howry, Jones, Blanco, Neifi, Burnitz, Remlinger...

 

That's all that comes to mind.

[dew1679666265]

[

What if the fix to the mistake is better than the mistake itself? For example, Hendry signed Miles to a bench role last year and Miles got all of 170 plate appearances. He was then traded (along with Fox) for three interesting minor leaguers.

 

What if one or more of those minor leaguers end up helping us this year or in the future more than Miles hurt us last year? I don't know how many wins Miles cost us, but in 170 PAs, I can't imagine it's that many. So what if it ends up being that Hendry made a minor mistake (paying Miles $3.5 million), but corrected it by bringing in 1-2 young players who can help us for a number of years cheaply? Gray seems like the kind of reliever who could be quite useful this year.

 

You also traded away a guy in Fox who can be useful doing things this team actually need, scoring runs, as opposed to another mediocre arm doing things this team doesn't have that much trouble with. And Miles wasn't brought here to give 170 PAs, part of the problem of having him on the roster was the complete lack of replacement when Ramirez went down. There's an opportunity cost there that is more than just what Miles did. Gray is a 28 year old who wasn't a particularly good minor leaguer and hasn't been a particularly good major leaguer. He's the quintessential dime a dozen bullpen arm.

 

And Fox is an ok bat with awful defense. There are plenty of those around as well. Gray's minor league numbers are a 3.30 ERA, 1.184 WHIP and 273:86 K:BB ratio. How was he not a particularly good minor leaguer?

 

Fox and Gray seem very similar, except ones a hitter and ones a pitcher. Neither are likely to be stars at any point, but both could provide some level of value to their team. Then you have two intriguing minor leaguers basically for Miles.

[cubsfan26]

The more I think about it the more I care less about trading Fox. I know alot of fans fell in love with Fox after the way he hit from May through early August. But he was really bad the final few months of the season. Look at these numbers

 

May: .429 BA, .429 OBP, .571 SLG, 1.000 OPS (7 AB)

 

June: .304 BA, .340 OBP, .522 SLG, .862 OPS (46 B)

 

July: .300 BA, .339 OBP, .660 SLG, .999 OPS (50 AB)

 

Aug: .246 BA, .315 OBP, .431 SLG, .746 OPS (65 AB)

 

Sept: ..195 BA, .250 OBP, .293 SLG, .543 OPS (41 AB)

 

Oct: .000 BA, .125 OBP, .000 SLG, .125 OPS (7 AB)

 

Now take in account that we have a simliar player to Fox already on the roster in Hoffpauir. Who had a simliar hot start, and then tailed off. Look at these numbers

 

Fox-259/311/779 with 11 HR and 44 RBI's - in 216 AB's

 

Hoffpauir-278/328/800 with 9 HR and 30 RBI's-first 216 AB's

 

Now I do think Fox is a little better then Hoffpauir, but there's not much difference between them. Not to mention when Hoffpauir returned to the majors in September he hit again. So we basically traded a expandable bench player who was simliar to a guy we already had on the roster and were able to get rid of Aaron Miles at the same time. So this was a good trade IMO and the fact we got some decent prospects back is also a plus.

Edited December 4, 2009 by cubsfan26

[cubsfan26]

The more I think about it the more I care less about trading Fox. I know alot of fans fell in love with Fox after the way he hit from May through early August. But he was really bad the final few months of the season. Look at these numbers

 

May: .429 BA, .429 OBP, .571 SLG, 1.000 OPS (7 AB)

 

June: .304 BA, .340 OBP, .522 SLG, .862 OPS (46 B)

 

July: .300 BA, .339 OBP, .660 SLG, .999 OPS (50 AB)

 

Aug: .246 BA, .315 OBP, .431 SLG, .746 OPS (65 AB)

 

Sept: ..195 BA, .250 OBP, .293 SLG, .543 OPS (41 AB)

 

Oct: .000 BA, .125 OBP, .000 SLG, .125 OPS (7 AB)

 

Now take in account that we have a simliar player to Fox already on the roster in Hoffpauir. Who had a simliar hot start, and then tailed off. Look at these numbers

 

Fox-259/311/779 with 11 HR and 44 RBI's - in 216 AB's

 

Hoffpauir-278/328/800 with 9 HR and 30 RBI's-first 216 AB's

 

Now I do think Fox is a little better then Hoffpauir, but there's not much difference between them. Not to mention when Hoffpauir returned to the majors in September he hit again. So we basically traded a expandable bench player who was simliar to a guy we already had on the roster and were able to get rid of Aaron Miles at the same time. So this was a good trade IMO and the fact we got some decent prospects back is also a plus. Now if Gray or Morta become solid relievers or Spencer turns into a good 4th outfielder. It will basically turn the Miles signing into a postive, like it or not. So I guess this will be a wait and see type trade(like most of them are).

[cubsfan26]

The more I think about it the more I care less about trading Fox. I know alot of fans fell in love with Fox after the way he hit from May through early August. But he was really bad the final few months of the season. Look at these numbers

 

May: .429 BA, .429 OBP, .571 SLG, 1.000 OPS (7 AB)

 

June: .304 BA, .340 OBP, .522 SLG, .862 OPS (46 B)

 

July: .300 BA, .339 OBP, .660 SLG, .999 OPS (50 AB)

 

Aug: .246 BA, .315 OBP, .431 SLG, .746 OPS (65 AB)

 

Sept: ..195 BA, .250 OBP, .293 SLG, .543 OPS (41 AB)

 

Oct: .000 BA, .125 OBP, .000 SLG, .125 OPS (7 AB)

 

Now take in account that we have a simliar player to Fox already on the roster in Hoffpauir. Who had a simliar hot start, and then tailed off. Look at these numbers

 

Fox-259/311/779 with 11 HR and 44 RBI's - in 216 AB's

 

Hoffpauir-278/328/800 with 9 HR and 30 RBI's-first 216 AB's

 

Now I do think Fox is a little better then Hoffpauir, but there's not much difference between them. Not to mention when Hoffpauir returned to the majors in September he hit again. So we basically traded a expandable bench player who was simliar to a guy we already had on the roster and were able to get rid of Aaron Miles at the same time. So this was a good trade IMO and the fact we got some decent prospects back is also a plus. Now if Gray or Morta become solid relievers or Spencer turns into a good 4th outfielder. It will basically turn the Miles signing into a postive, like it or not. So I guess this will be a wait and see type trade(like most of them are).

[Tim M]

So the only solution is for Hendry never to make a mistake? Hendry is working under a limited budget this year and so far he's cleared some dead weight (Miles, Heilman, Gregg) and saved money while getting some good prospects in return. You don't get credit for putting band aids on self inflicted wounds, but that's better than letting them fester forever.

 

Hendry is not working on a limited budget. He's working with a huge budget. It's his fault that he tied up so much money as to make it tight already while the team is still in need of upgrades. And it doesn't help that part of that budget is being spent to pay people to play elsewhere, peole he foolishly guaranteed contracts to when it was well known that the team was for sale and future payrolls were in doubt.

 

I don't think the Cubs really have any outrageous contracts other than Soriano. And I've always believed Soriano was a desperation publicity move by the Trib in their waning days.

 

Bad contacts given by Hendry are as follows; Zambrano, Soriano, Fukudome, Miles (ta ta), Grabow, Hawkins, Eyre, Howry, Jones, Blanco, Neifi, Burnitz, Remlinger

 

That's all that comes to mind.

 

*current roster* Forgot about Fuku. I don't think Grabow or Zambrano have outrageous deals.

[Tim M]

So the only solution is for Hendry never to make a mistake? Hendry is working under a limited budget this year and so far he's cleared some dead weight (Miles, Heilman, Gregg) and saved money while getting some good prospects in return. You don't get credit for putting band aids on self inflicted wounds, but that's better than letting them fester forever.

 

Hendry is not working on a limited budget. He's working with a huge budget. It's his fault that he tied up so much money as to make it tight already while the team is still in need of upgrades. And it doesn't help that part of that budget is being spent to pay people to play elsewhere, peole he foolishly guaranteed contracts to when it was well known that the team was for sale and future payrolls were in doubt.

 

I don't think the Cubs really have any outrageous contracts other than Soriano. And I've always believed Soriano was a desperation publicity move by the Trib in their waning days.

 

Bad contacts given by Hendry are as follows; Zambrano, Soriano, Fukudome, Miles (ta ta), Grabow, Hawkins, Eyre, Howry, Jones, Blanco, Neifi, Burnitz, Remlinger

 

That's all that comes to mind.

 

*current roster* Forgot about Fuku. I don't think Grabow or Zambrano have outrageous deals.

[erik316wttn]

Not a bad trade, but one that shouldn't have had to have been made in the first place.

[dew1679666265]

Bad contacts given by Hendry are as follows; Zambrano, Soriano, Fukudome, Miles (ta ta), Grabow, Hawkins, Eyre, Howry, Jones, Blanco, Neifi, Burnitz, Remlinger...

 

That's all that comes to mind.

 

I don't agree at all that Z and Fuku were bad contracts. Howry was well worth his contract for 2 of 3 years. Hawkins was quite good for us with the exception of save situations. Also, according to Fangraphs, Burnitz was worth $6 million and was paid $4.5 million.

[champaignchris]

We trade Fox for a four year younger version of himself.

 

We dump Miles and only have to pay $1 million of the $2.7 he's owed.

 

We get what appears to be a relatively decent relief pitcher and a 21 year old pitching prospect for our effort.

 

What's not to like?

[Backtobanks]

We trade Fox for a four year younger version of himself.

 

We dump Miles and only have to pay $1 million of the $2.7 he's owed.

 

We get what appears to be a relatively decent relief pitcher and a 21 year old pitching prospect for our effort.

 

What's not to like?

 

AMEN!

[Guest]

Morla doesn't seem like much obviously, but Gray and Spencer straight up for Fox honestly doesn't seem too bad to me, if that was the entire deal. To lose Miles' and only have to pay a mill of his 2.7 is pretty damn strong as far as I'm concerned. Pretty good deal, all in all really......

I'm reasonably intrigued by Morla. His numbers were pretty darned good last year. Need to find out more about him, though, as that's pretty much all I know at this point.

 

Got this off the A's Scout web site from right before spring training last year:

 

Scout.com[/url]"]Morla did a good job both locating his pitches and inducing groundballs. He held AZL batters to a .240 average and recorded more than two groundouts for every flyout. As a reliever, Morla was dominant, walking only two in 21 innings and holding opposing batters to a .164 average. As a starter, he was hit harder (.277 BAA), and his walk totals increased (15 in 37.1 innings), but his strike outs leapt from 14 in 21 relief innings to 38 in 37.1 innings.

 

Former Oakland A’s Minor League Pitching Coordinator and current major league bullpen coach Ron Romanick was impressed with Morla’s command last season.

 

“The numbers that I keep, I track the strikes. I have my own database and I ask the pitching instructors to track the strikes that the pitchers throw. I have about eight years of the database, and I think he has the highest strike percentage of any Latin program player that I’ve ever had. He just filled up the strike zone with quality,” Romanick told OaklandClubhouse.com during the off-season.

 

Morla has a starting pitcher’s build at 6’4’’, and he has a nice, easy delivery. He throws his fastball in the low-90s and he has good command of his off-speed pitches. Although he had more success out of the bullpen in 2007, Morla is likely to continue to develop as a starting pitcher, where he can work on his secondary pitches.

[A New Era]

I think I like the more recent moves Hendry has been making. In retrospect Derosa for some pretty good prospects, trading fox and miles for some decent young guys. This is the type of team building I like.

 

However Hendry has made alot of stupid moves in the past. One of his major problems is overpaying for mediocrity and sometimes even CRAP. This shouldn't be arguable, it's a fact.

 

I do hope the Cubs continue making moves like this in the future, and less like the Fukudome/Soriano type. Because those moves don't build your team, they hamper it.

[toonsterwu]

Morla doesn't seem like much obviously, but Gray and Spencer straight up for Fox honestly doesn't seem too bad to me, if that was the entire deal. To lose Miles' and only have to pay a mill of his 2.7 is pretty damn strong as far as I'm concerned. Pretty good deal, all in all really......

I'm reasonably intrigued by Morla. His numbers were pretty darned good last year. Need to find out more about him, though, as that's pretty much all I know at this point.

 

Got this off the A's Scout web site from right before spring training last year:

 

Scout.com[/url]"]Morla did a good job both locating his pitches and inducing groundballs. He held AZL batters to a .240 average and recorded more than two groundouts for every flyout. As a reliever, Morla was dominant, walking only two in 21 innings and holding opposing batters to a .164 average. As a starter, he was hit harder (.277 BAA), and his walk totals increased (15 in 37.1 innings), but his strike outs leapt from 14 in 21 relief innings to 38 in 37.1 innings.

 

Former Oakland A’s Minor League Pitching Coordinator and current major league bullpen coach Ron Romanick was impressed with Morla’s command last season.

 

“The numbers that I keep, I track the strikes. I have my own database and I ask the pitching instructors to track the strikes that the pitchers throw. I have about eight years of the database, and I think he has the highest strike percentage of any Latin program player that I’ve ever had. He just filled up the strike zone with quality,” Romanick told OaklandClubhouse.com during the off-season.

 

Morla has a starting pitcher’s build at 6’4’’, and he has a nice, easy delivery. He throws his fastball in the low-90s and he has good command of his off-speed pitches. Although he had more success out of the bullpen in 2007, Morla is likely to continue to develop as a starting pitcher, where he can work on his secondary pitches.

 

Mayo made Morla sound much better than I thought. I thought Morla was a low 90's guy with a decent-solid changeup. Mayo's post last night suggested Morla was sustaining 93-94 as a starter, and that he had a good slider. Granted, he's eligible for Rule 5 after next year, but I think it's a fairly intriguing arm to add to the lower mix, and I hope he's starting in Peoria to begin the year.

[Guest]

BA has him at 91-92 but, of course, claims he could project to more velocity.

 

Jeff Gray, rhp

 

With mid-90s heat and hard mid-80s slider, Gray gives the Cubs a power arm for their bullpen. He's spent most of the last three seasons pitching at Triple-A Sacramento. After a difficult 2008 season in which he posted a 4.39 ERA in 54 appearances out of the River Cats bullpen, Gray bounced back this year, going 16-for-17 in saves and not allowing a single run over his last 12 appearances. Gray had some success after earning a promotion to Oakland in August, although big league lefthanded hitters hit .300 against him in 50 at-bats.

 

Ronny Morla, rhp

 

Morla's size and loose arm action could translate into an increase on his present 91-92 mph velocity. His changeup would seem to have a bit more potential than his slider, but if he commands at least one of them he could find success as a reliever. The A's had not exhausted his starter possibilities, despite an ugly 4.87 ERA over the course of 139 short-season innings.

 

Matt Spencer, of

 

Spencer joins his third pro organization after splitting his college career between North Carolina and Arizona State. He started his collegiate career at UNC in 2005 and had two inconsistent seasons in Chapel Hill before transferring to ASU for the 2007 season. Spencer hit .369 with nine home runs for the Sun Devils, elevating himself to the third round of the draft. Spencer is a fly ball hitter with above-average power potential, though that power is derived more from strength than from bat speed. He has an upward swing plane and can get long to the ball at times. Defensively, Spencer can handle first base or left field. He has a pretty good arm and is an average runner.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/trade-central/2009/269239.html

[Deder]

I don't agree at all that Z and Fuku were bad contracts

 

It will take a miracle for Zambrano to earn his contract. He is at best break even production vs salary now and it is much more likely his value goes down before it goes up. More importantly giving a long contract like that to any pitcher is a bad idea.

 

Fukudome it is still too early to tell but I think that one will work out ok.

[Backtobanks]

I don't agree at all that Z and Fuku were bad contracts

 

It will take a miracle for Zambrano to earn his contract. He is at best break even production vs salary now and it is much more likely his value goes down before it goes up. More importantly giving a long contract like that to any pitcher is a bad idea.

 

Fukudome it is still too early to tell but I think that one will work out ok.

 

Everybody complains about long-term contracts, but sometimes you have to offer them or else you'll never sign a FA and you'll lose all of your players to FA. The best that you can hope for is that you catch someone young and productive enough to stay productive through the life of the contract.

[Benchwarmer]

I don't agree at all that Z and Fuku were bad contracts

 

It will take a miracle for Zambrano to earn his contract. He is at best break even production vs salary now and it is much more likely his value goes down before it goes up. More importantly giving a long contract like that to any pitcher is a bad idea.

 

Fukudome it is still too early to tell but I think that one will work out ok.

 

Both Z and Fuku contracts are bad. Z has shown he's not even our best pitcher(Lilly probably is). Fuku has been a major disappointment. I keep hoping he'll got back to Japan and decide to stay there.

 

But it goes back to the Hendry regime having no plan and being unable to evaluate talent.

[laurens]

Both Z and Fuku contracts are bad. Z has shown he's not even our best pitcher(Lilly probably is). Fuku has been a major disappointment. I keep hoping he'll got back to Japan and decide to stay there.

 

But it goes back to the Hendry regime having no plan and being unable to evaluate talent.

 

no.

[Backtobanks]

[

What if the fix to the mistake is better than the mistake itself? For example, Hendry signed Miles to a bench role last year and Miles got all of 170 plate appearances. He was then traded (along with Fox) for three interesting minor leaguers.

 

What if one or more of those minor leaguers end up helping us this year or in the future more than Miles hurt us last year? I don't know how many wins Miles cost us, but in 170 PAs, I can't imagine it's that many. So what if it ends up being that Hendry made a minor mistake (paying Miles $3.5 million), but corrected it by bringing in 1-2 young players who can help us for a number of years cheaply? Gray seems like the kind of reliever who could be quite useful this year.

 

You also traded away a guy in Fox who can be useful doing things this team actually need, scoring runs, as opposed to another mediocre arm doing things this team doesn't have that much trouble with. And Miles wasn't brought here to give 170 PAs, part of the problem of having him on the roster was the complete lack of replacement when Ramirez went down. There's an opportunity cost there that is more than just what Miles did. Gray is a 28 year old who wasn't a particularly good minor leaguer and hasn't been a particularly good major leaguer. He's the quintessential dime a dozen bullpen arm.

 

To be honest, Fox was pretty much a dime a dozen slugger who can't hit a slider and can't play defense. When opposing pitchers figured out that Fox was waiting for fastballs, his production went way down.

[dew1679666265]

I don't agree at all that Z and Fuku were bad contracts

 

It will take a miracle for Zambrano to earn his contract. He is at best break even production vs salary now and it is much more likely his value goes down before it goes up. More importantly giving a long contract like that to any pitcher is a bad idea.

 

Fukudome it is still too early to tell but I think that one will work out ok.

 

It's very likely a 28 year old pitcher will decline from here on out? That's odd. Z has been a little overpaid so far, according to Fangraphs, but he's been close to worth his contract so far and has been a very productive pitcher for the Cubs. A bad contract to me is someone who is significantly overpaid or someone who is not providing much production for his salary. Z fits neither of those criteria.

 

If Fuku has a year anything like last year, he'll be worth more than his salary. If anything, the likelihood - barring a big decline this year - is that his contract in and of itself will be a good one.