Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[BigSlick]

Why all this vitriol for Lovie? I feel like Angelo has done a much much more inferior job than Lovie

[RedFlash]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/04/bears-are-expected-to-announce-that-lovie-smith-will-be-back/

 

Profootballtalk.com is "hearing" that the Bears will fire offensive coordinator Ron Turner.

 

The rest of Chicago's offensive staff, particularly QBs coach Pep Hamilton, is in danger. PFT also suggests that Bears head coach Lovie Smith's defensive playcalling duties could be passed on to line coach Rod Marinelli.

[DurbanJer]

No suprise - Ron Turner was toast somewhere around week 9. But seriously, how Lovie and his defensive schemes - the same system that got this team shredded on more than one occasion - continues to get a pass is beyond me. This in on Jerry Angelo as much as anything -

 

If it wasn't the coach or the scheme it was the players. If it was the players, then you have to hold the person responsible for the collection of talent responsible. JA should be canned. The Gaines Adams trade was a firable offense in and of itself, if you ask me. How can you go into what will likely be one of the best drafts in recent memory without a pick on day one?

 

If true they better hire a sharp, up and coming OC with broad authority over the entire offense and a DC that gets to install his own scheme.

 

What a mess. This is the least modern football organization in modern football.

[Sosa21MVP]

Why all this vitriol for Lovie? I feel like Angelo has done a much much more inferior job than Lovie

 

They both get some blame but Lovie is deservedly under scrutiny. After the Super Bowl appearance he got a big contract and the power to re-organize his coaching staff and quite frankly he has used that increased power very poorly. He got rid of some decent coaches in favor of his own buddies and we all see how that has worked out.

[hawkeyecub]

If they were going to fire him they could/should and probably would have done it already. Cutler is probably going to deal with a 4th OC in 4 years (if they play in 2011) unless they get a guy who can be bumped to head coach, or less likely, retained as OC once Lovie is canned next year.

 

The best option is cleaning house and going with a fresh Cutler friendly staff right now. But that's not happening.

 

This has been my outsider's opinion all along. For all the screaming about Turner, I think it will cause more harm to bring in some schmoe for 1 year and replace him in 2011.

[Soul]

Why all this vitriol for Lovie? I feel like Angelo has done a much much more inferior job than Lovie

 

There is zero reason Lovie shouldn't be receiving his fair share of vitriol.

[rawaction]

I don't think his passing game expertise is that great that you overlook his shortcomings in designing and calling running plays. Heck, 10 QBs threw for over 4000 yards this year. That old Rams passing game is a dime a dozen now. And I know this is a passing league now, but you at least have to keep teams honest w/ the run. And I don't see any proof that Martz can design plays to make Forte a 4+ ypc guy. I don't know that anyone really can, but Martz has proven he can't.

 

Indy, San Diego, Houston and Arizona didn't keep teams honest with the running game and they were 4 of the top 11 scoring teams in the league. New England and Minnesota averaged just 4.1 ypc.

 

This is a pass first league. You have to pass. The Bears have to pass. They need an OC who can help develop Cutler and take advantage of their one strength. I really don't see any strong justification for eliminating Martz based on your perception that he can't do anything with the running game. The running game just isn't that important, and with a Forte led attack, it's not going to be good regardless. Martz has shown he can exploit a good pass catching RB, and that's Forte's only strength.

 

The focus should be on who can do the most with the QB and passing game, not who can get the biggest YPC out of Forte. The passing game will determine this team's future.

 

I agree with everything you are saying. I'm not one of those people that still think you win with running the ball and defense. Me pointing out 10 QBs throwing for 4000 is pointing out that I don't think Martz is anything special in the passing game anymore. My point was, if everyone is doing it, you might as well find somebody who has a history of (whether thru experience or who the OC has learned under) at least trying to run the ball, protect the QB, and minimize mistakes.

 

Sure the Bears can be an elite offense w/o a running game. But it is not as likely. Especially since Arizona has the best WR combo in the league, Indy has the best WR/TE combo, Houston has the best WR in the game, and San Diego has probably the 2nd or 3rd best WR/TE combo. The Bears don't have the type of WR talent to just disregard the run like those teams did.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why all this vitriol for Lovie? I feel like Angelo has done a much much more inferior job than Lovie

 

I feel like Lovie has done worse. This was the most talented team in the NFC in 2006, that was due largely to Jerry. After the Super Bowl, Lovie got increased personnel powers including being able to get rid of a succesful DC for no good reason, and the team has gone downhill ever since. There are all sorts of guys who have gone elsewhere and done better. And this team has been horrible at developing players. The defense has very specific niche demands for players at each position, and is inflexible in dealing with different skill sets. Jay Cutler is a damn good quarterback, they traded a clearly inferior quarterback for him, yet the Broncos ended up a game better than the Bears when all was said and done. That's coaching. It's not just Lovie on his own. But Lovie shaped this staff, and Lovie was the one who insisted on starting his tenure here with a bunch of "teachers" ie, guys with no pro coaching experience and all college coaches. The one guy they brought in with pro experience was in the 2nd year, and it was Turner, whose only pro experience is leading mediocre Bears offenses. Lovie is a guy who generally gets the most out of his team (although they laid down on numerous occassions this year), but he's a horrible gameday coach, whether it be clock management, or more important strategy and adjustments in game.

 

In baseball, the only thing that matters is player ability. It's a bunch of one on one matchups determined by the players ability and chance, and there is no real strategy (traditionalists don't know what they are talking about). Football is largely determined by coaching strategy. You need the talent, but talent is worthless if used inproperly.

 

This team is clearly no longer the most talented in the NFC, but it's talented, and much more talented than the bottom barrel teams. They have enough talent to contend and win divisions, but they haven't been for three years.

 

Jerry has flaws and I wouldn't mind seeing him replaced, but most importantly, Lovie's staff needs to be overhauled.

[Soul]

Yes, that's an important point to make. Alot of people just assume that since we aren't winning games, that means the players Lovie has to work with suck, so it isn't Lovie's fault.

 

That logic has a flaw in it: it assumes that all our players have reached their full potential under Lovie Smith. Untrue. There's strong evidence that he's not getting all that he needs to get from these players.

[bukie]

Anybody else notice how terrible Harris and Briggs were this year? It was bad enough the Bears were down to their #6 and #7 LBs for most of the year, but their supposed "#1 guy" was absolutely awful the whole year.

[jersey cubs fan]

Anybody else notice how terrible Harris and Briggs were this year? It was bad enough the Bears were down to their #6 and #7 LBs for most of the year, but their supposed "#1 guy" was absolutely awful the whole year.

 

Briggs was not awful. He did not step up enough in a way that he should have, or at least in a way he claimed he could have when he was talking contract and wanting to be "the man". But he was still a good player. Harris was his usual occasional burst of power player.

[Banedon]

Anybody else notice how terrible Harris and Briggs were this year? It was bad enough the Bears were down to their #6 and #7 LBs for most of the year, but their supposed "#1 guy" was absolutely awful the whole year.

 

Well Harris played better the last two games, but he hasn't been a force for a couple of years now. Hopefully the last two games are signs of what we'll see him like next year, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

I think Urlachers injury probably had an effect on Briggs, but I think "terrible" is overstating it.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Anybody else notice how terrible Harris and Briggs were this year? It was bad enough the Bears were down to their #6 and #7 LBs for most of the year, but their supposed "#1 guy" was absolutely awful the whole year.

 

I think Urlachers injury probably had an effect on Briggs, but I think "terrible" is overstating it.

 

Agreed. Briggs is a very good, top-level LB in the league, but he's not going be a guy who can just take over a game on the defensive side like Urlacher can.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/bears-fire-offensive-coordinator-ron-turner.html

 

First "official" report that the Bears are canning Turner, also moving Marinelli to DC and potentially hiring his old DLine coach to take his job.

[Roast]

ESPN just reported the Turner firing as well.

[David]

Marinelli to DC is really frustrating. It's no different than anything we've seen since 2007. Just another like-minded voice.

[Soul]

Yeah, it's just not enough change IMO. It just falls short of what is needed.

[jersey cubs fan]

Marinelli to DC is really frustrating. It's no different than anything we've seen since 2007. Just another like-minded voice.

 

It's what I thought was going to happen though, and with Lovie still here, one of a very few options. They weren't going to stray too far from the model. If they are giving Lovie one last chance, it's one of the cleanest ways to do it. You could bring in a new guy who runs the 3-4 but you are going to make Lovie pointless.

 

The one good thing is a defense that surrenders yards and some points could still work if the offense does its job. They have to be an above average offense, and unless they get some signficant improvement there, they will fail, and these guys will all be gone.

 

I'm no more disappointed in Rod being DC as I am in Lovie returning. That was the key.

[kujay]

Oddly, I'm unsatisfied with Turner getting the axe. It needed to happen, but as others said, it's not enough.

 

But, I guess this starts to eliminate excuses for Lovie. He's had total control, and the more control he has gotten, the worse this team has gotten.

[jersey cubs fan]

But, I guess this starts to eliminate excuses for Lovie.

 

Excuses were eliminated when Rivera was canned, then again when he took control from Babich, and when they traded for a franchise QB. There are literally no excuses for Lovie and there haven't been any all season long.

 

7-9, 9-7, 7-9 say all they need to say. Lovie should have been given one post SB road bump season, and then forced to put up or shut up in 2008, let alone 2009, and now 2010.

[Tyrant]

So Martz has been mentioned, but who are some potential other offensive coordinators that you would like to see? The failed-head-coach-turned-coordinator model seems to have worked for some teams.

 

I'd like to see someone who has proven they can work with quarterbacks and develop them. Someone who can actually adapt to personnel instead of jamming the current players into their own philosophy.

 

The sooner they can get someone hired, the better, so Cutler and everyone else can start learning the system..

[jersey cubs fan]

I've been thinking about this for a while, but with the coaching decisions coming out, it's becoming clearer.

 

The Gaines Adams trade guaranteed Jerry, Lovie and Rod would return in 2010. It was probably going to happen that way anyway, but that was the nail in the coffin. He became expandable in Tampa when they started to depart from the Tampa 2 defense. The Bears traded a 2010 #2 for him, eliminating their precense on the first day of the draft and essentially forcing whoever the coaches were in 2010 to get the most out of him.

 

Had they made a change, the defensive gameplan probably changes, and somebody like Adams becomes worthless. The new regime would not have any day 1 draft picks to make an early impact, and with much of the free agent money likely going to the offensive line, they'd have a whole bunch of Lovie guys, 4-3 Tampa 2 style defenders and would be extremely limited in what they could do to overhaul the defense. The defensive coaches are going to remain stable, and so is the personnel, with any and all meaningful changes likely coming on offense.

[jersey cubs fan]

So Martz has been mentioned, but who are some potential other offensive coordinators that you would like to see? The failed-head-coach-turned-coordinator model seems to have worked for some teams.

 

I'd like to see someone who has proven they can work with quarterbacks and develop them. Someone who can actually adapt to personnel instead of jamming the current players into their own philosophy.

 

The sooner they can get someone hired, the better, so Cutler and everyone else can start learning the system..

 

I wonder if Steve Mariucci's name has ever come up.

[Tyrant]

This is from a few weeks ago, but I wonder if it's still applicable. I guess Cutler really likes the guy, which probably means something.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4722057

 

But if current quarterback Jay Cutler has anything to say about who might replace Turner, he's likely to lobby for current USC offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates, according to multiple sources who have talked with ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. Cutler knows Bates from their days in Denver, when Bates was an assistant to Mike Shanahan and worked with Cutler. After Shanahan was fired, Cutler told the team he would only stay in Denver if Bates stayed, according to Schefter's sources.

[jersey cubs fan]

This is from a few weeks ago, but I wonder if it's still applicable. I guess Cutler really likes the guy, which probably means something.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4722057

 

But if current quarterback Jay Cutler has anything to say about who might replace Turner, he's likely to lobby for current USC offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates, according to multiple sources who have talked with ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. Cutler knows Bates from their days in Denver, when Bates was an assistant to Mike Shanahan and worked with Cutler. After Shanahan was fired, Cutler told the team he would only stay in Denver if Bates stayed, according to Schefter's sources.

 

He's the guy whose name keeps coming up, potentially as a QB coach under another OC. He's never been an NFL OC, and has only been a college OC for one year (so Pete Carrol would probably cry about him leaving eligibility on the table). If you are trying to find the next Sean Payton, this might be the guy. But I would really hope he brings guys with real NFL coaching experience with him.