Cubs Sign Grabow (2 years, $7.5 Million)

[cubsfan26]

Want to see something fun?

 

Neal Cotts 2007-2008 before he "exploded" in 2009:

 

Neal Cotts wishes he could have had the era's in the amount of innings that Grabow had in 07-08.

 

 

cubsfan26, I think most people here understand your point. They just think it's wrong. Repeating it will not change too many peoples minds here. If however, you can find a player or two who have done what you are suggesting, that may add some value to your argument.

 

 

Your right people on here are kinda set in their ways. So I'm done with this topic for now. I could find 10 guys and people will say well there careers were flukey or they got lucky. But honestly there is no perfect system so when things happen they can't explain they call it "luck". From watching baseball for alot of years, playing baseball for alot of years and adding in all the current stat info. I try to side somewere in the middle on alot of this stuff. I agree with alot of the new stat info. But I can't take all that stuff as fact or make my judgement on players only on that stuff. Because it's flawed systems and theres alot of human factor involved in baseball that can factor in why things happen. Other calling it luck or flukey numbers.

Edited November 20, 2009 by cubsfan26

[Guest]

Want to see something fun?

 

Neal Cotts 2007-2008 before he "exploded" in 2009:

 

Neal Cotts wishes he could have had the era's in the amount of innings that Grabow had in 07-08.

 

 

cubsfan26, I think most people here understand your point. They just think it's wrong. Repeating it will not change too many peoples minds here. If however, you can find a player or two who have done what you are suggesting, that may add some value to your argument.

 

 

Your right people on here are kinda set in there ways. So I'm done with this topic for now. I could find 10 guys and people will well well there careers were flukey or they got lucky. But honestly there is no perfect system so when things happen they can't explain they call it "luck".

 

Unfortunately, it appears that we will have the entire 2010 and 2011 seasons to point and laugh at Hendry for paying premium dollar for a crappy reliever that he could have gotten better production from a minimum wage punk fresh out of AA.

[Rob]

Want to see something fun?

 

Neal Cotts 2007-2008 before he "exploded" in 2009:

 

Neal Cotts wishes he could have had the era's in the amount of innings that Grabow had in 07-08.

 

Piece of friendly advice, don't try to use ERA on this board again. It's fairly meaningless, and most here understand that.

[17 Seconds]

I could find 10 guys and people will say well there careers were flukey or they got lucky.

 

just give us one

[Guest]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a major league pitcher for 11 years.

 

Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

[MSG T]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a Cub for 11 years.

 

Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

 

Not trying to nitpick, but Alf was a Cub for 2 years, he was a major leaguer for 11.

 

That shouldn't diminish your argument, which I fully agree with.

[Guest]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a Cub for 11 years.

 

Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

 

Not trying to nitpick, but Alf was a Cub for 2 years, he was a major leaguer for 11.

 

That shouldn't diminish your argument, which I fully agree with.

 

 

Haha. I think I meant to write that he was a major leaguer for 11 years. Thanks for pointing out my typo.

[Clem Fandango]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a Cub for 11 years.

 

Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

 

That's so god damn depressing :(

[Larry Horse]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a Cub for 11 years.

 

Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

 

Wow. That's kind of depressing.

[rocket]

so embarrassing. what a horrible gm.

[Guest]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a Cub for 11 years.

 

Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

 

Wow. That's kind of depressing.

 

You think that's depressing? Wait until I do my next one on middle infielders. :banghead:

[Derwood]

it's way too much money, but he IS better than Marshall

 

he is?

 

Marshall's 2009 FIP was 4.10

Grabow's 2009 FIP was 4.29 in PIT and 3.83 for CHC

 

The difference in salary is now ridiculous, of course

[Exile on Waveland]

I somehow missed this until today.

 

Why why why does Hendry insist on giving fungible middle relievers multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts? It's astonishing he still hasn't learned his lesson.

[RynoRules]

Somoene needs to tie Hendry's hands behind his back. This is getting ridiculous. I don't have a problem bring Grabow back, but for cripes sake give 2 years at $2 mill per at most, or tell him to test the market.

[chuckywang]

I somehow missed this until today.

 

Why why why does Hendry insist on giving fungible middle relievers multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts? It's astonishing he still hasn't learned his lesson.

 

Should the Cubs have offered arbitration?

[Guest]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a Cub for 11 years.

 

Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

 

All that and you forgot Mike Remlinger in your exercise.

[Guest]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a Cub for 11 years.

 

Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

 

All that and you forgot Mike Remlinger in your exercise.

 

Weird. I thought this was the thread where I actually mentioned Remlinger. I'll copy it over here since the post above was supposed to be a follow up to my Remlinger post.

 

ETA: Found it!

 

A perfect example is Mike Remlinger, who didn't start pitching for the Cubs until he was 36 years old. The Cubs paid him almost 11m dollars over 3 years and Remlinger only made 18m over his entire 14 year career.

 

Think about that one for a minute. Oh, and Remlinger was kinda good for a couple years before he got his fat contract.

[jersey cubs fan]

Antonio Alfonseca made exactly half of his career major league money from the Chicago Cubs. He was a Cub for 11 years.Good times!

 

Bob Howry has pitched 11 years in the bigs, has earned almost 20m over that time frame and the Cubs gave him 12m of that in just 3 years. The year before and the year after Howry's Cub contract combined barely equals the amount the Cubs paid him for just one season.

 

Scott Eyre has 12 seasons under his belt now and he's raked in 17m and the Cubs have paid out almost 11m of that themselves. Even the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies only though Eyre was worth half the amount the Cubs were paying him when they re-signed him.

 

Who has paid LaTroy Hawkins more in a single season? The Cubs, of course.

 

At least the Cleveland Indians can take those two solid years Kerry Wood gave us in the pen and put it to good use in their pen in 2009. He's guaranteed to be good since he was solid for 2 straight years, right?

 

The point? The Cubs ridiculously overpay for relievers and Grabow is just another in a long line of them that we will be painfully reminded of for the next two years. Meanwhile, the Cubs will continue to cry that they just don't have enough in the budget to get a real impact player to improve the team.

 

All that and you forgot Mike Remlinger in your exercise.

 

Weird. I thought this was the thread where I actually mentioned Remlinger. I'll copy it over here since the post above was supposed to be a follow up to my Remlinger post.

 

What about Alfonseca's 11 years as a Cub?

[Guest]

Obviously that was a typo and it's probably a bit late in the ballgame to fix it, but I'll do it anyway, I guess.

[nolanwood]

I don't understanding how an organization can have any success by significantly overpaying middle relievers - but then again, the Cubs haven't been successful. :unsure:

[CubColtPacer]

I don't understanding how an organization can have any success by significantly overpaying middle relievers - but then again, the Cubs haven't been successful. :unsure:

 

That's probably a bit overstating it. For example, the last 2 world champions have both had left-handed middle relievers who were on multi-year deals for just as much money (it's difficult to find good contract information in one place for teams before that). It doesn't make it right to do, but it's certainly not something that just teams like the Cubs do.

 

However, that only eases the sting slightly. On the surface of just Grabow living up to his contract, it's a below average but not awful move. When you consider the Cubs were in the ideal position to risk letting him leave though, it becomes much, much worse. They had the potential for picks, the ability to minimize risk by giving him just 1 guaranteed year, and no desperation if he left due to the candidates who would be replacing him. Unfortunately, they didn't see it that way.

[MSG T]

I don't understanding how an organization can have any success by significantly overpaying middle relievers - but then again, the Cubs haven't been successful. :unsure:

 

That's probably a bit overstating it. For example, the last 2 world champions have both had left-handed middle relievers who were on multi-year deals for just as much money (it's difficult to find good contract information in one place for teams before that). It doesn't make it right to do, but it's certainly not something that just teams like the Cubs do.

 

However, that only eases the sting slightly. On the surface of just Grabow living up to his contract, it's a below average but not awful move. When you consider the Cubs were in the ideal position to risk letting him leave though, it becomes much, much worse. They had the potential for picks, the ability to minimize risk by giving him just 1 guaranteed year, and no desperation if he left due to the candidates who would be replacing him. Unfortunately, they didn't see it that way.

 

The situation you describe, where it was perfect for them to offer arbitration, it what makes it so maddening. If he was the only LH relief candidate in Chicago or the upper minors, it wouldn't look as bad. But when they have at least 3 other players that could step in and take his spot... ](*,)

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't understanding how an organization can have any success by significantly overpaying middle relievers - but then again, the Cubs haven't been successful. :unsure:

 

That's probably a bit overstating it. For example, the last 2 world champions have both had left-handed middle relievers who were on multi-year deals for just as much money (it's difficult to find good contract information in one place for teams before that). It doesn't make it right to do, but it's certainly not something that just teams like the Cubs do.

 

 

Yeah, and the Yankees can afford to do stupid stuff with contracts much moreso than the Cubs. Furthermore, Philly has actually stacked its team with fantastic homegrown offensive players, a terrific cost effective strategy that the Cubs haven't come close to emulating. The Cubs are letting quality players walk because they can't afford them, yet they are still wasting money on these contracts. If Starlin Castro and Josh Vitters were up here kicking ass and making far below their value, you can justify throwing that kind of money around a little better.

[haubrich91]

Maybe this is a plot to make all middle relievers mad. Hendry is over-paying, hoping to make the other middle relieving free agents jack up their signing price.

 

Seriously was a bad move, though.

 

The Cubs also think they got a bargain in the 31-year-old lefty, who probably could have commanded more if he'd waited for a few offers, due to the lack of lefties in the market.

Oh dear lord...

[JeffH]

The worst organization in professional sports.