DeRosa a Cardinal (p. 5) + DL'd (p. 13)

[fasttrack21]

For all the complaints that Hendry never sold high on anyone, he certainly did with DeRosa.

 

Ugh. No, he didn't. "Sold high" implies that you got max value for the guy. Hendry oculdn't even get a major league reliever for DeRosa. He did not sell high. The Indians just got a better package for him than the Cubs got.

Umm, no. Sold high doesn't mean that at all. Sold high means that he traded that player when that player's value was higher than it's ever previously been. YOUR perceived value of DeRosa doesn't mean anything. Especially when we have evidence of what his actual value was -- three marginal prosects, and then a few months later, one fairly decent prospect.

[treebird]

Not really. They have nice ERA's, but they've all been walk machines. Gaub has walked 19 in 30.1 IP. Stevens has walked 19 in 35.2 IP. Archer has walked 36 in 53.1 IP. Those are some really ugly totals. It's hard to get excited about that.

 

Fortunately, they all have struck out enough guys to have a K/BB of at least 2(wait, Stevens is 1 K short, so 1.97 or something), they all carry a BAA under .190, and they've given up a combined 4 HR in 119 IP.

 

Also, whether you want to term it "selling high" or whatever, the Cubs definitely got more in return for DeRosa than the Indians did; and from what we can gather as fans, DeRosa seemed to be a much hotter commodity when he was dealt from Cleveland than when Hendry traded him.

 

i should hope the cubs got more for derosa than the indians did -- the cubs were trading away a full season of him, and the indians just over half.

[17 Seconds]

Not really. They have nice ERA's, but they've all been walk machines. Gaub has walked 19 in 30.1 IP. Stevens has walked 19 in 35.2 IP. Archer has walked 36 in 53.1 IP. Those are some really ugly totals. It's hard to get excited about that.

 

Fortunately, they all have struck out enough guys to have a K/BB of at least 2(wait, Stevens is 1 K short, so 1.97 or something), they all carry a BAA under .190, and they've given up a combined 4 HR in 119 IP.

 

Also, whether you want to term it "selling high" or whatever, the Cubs definitely got more in return for DeRosa than the Indians did; and from what we can gather as fans, DeRosa seemed to be a much hotter commodity when he was dealt from Cleveland than when Hendry traded him.

 

I don't know. I think the Indians got the best player in Perez. I think he's a much better bet to be a good major leaguer than any of Gaub/Stevens/Archer.

[17 Seconds]

For all the complaints that Hendry never sold high on anyone, he certainly did with DeRosa.

 

Ugh. No, he didn't. "Sold high" implies that you got max value for the guy. Hendry oculdn't even get a major league reliever for DeRosa. He did not sell high. The Indians just got a better package for him than the Cubs got.

Umm, no. Sold high doesn't mean that at all. Sold high means that he traded that player when that player's value was higher than it's ever previously been. YOUR perceived value of DeRosa doesn't mean anything. Especially when we have evidence of what his actual value was -- three marginal prosects, and then a few months later, one fairly decent prospect.

 

Okay, so if "selling high" can include things like selling a player for an unimpressive package when he's at his peak value, then why is "selling high" so good in this situation? At least the Indians got a guy who is helping the major league team right now.

 

Plus the Cards traded for 3 months of him. The Indians traded for 6 months of him when they got him from the Cubs.

[CyHawk_Cub]

For all the complaints that Hendry never sold high on anyone, he certainly did with DeRosa.

 

Ugh. No, he didn't. "Sold high" implies that you got max value for the guy. Hendry oculdn't even get a major league reliever for DeRosa. He did not sell high. The Indians just got a better package for him than the Cubs got.

Umm, no. Sold high doesn't mean that at all. Sold high means that he traded that player when that player's value was higher than it's ever previously been. YOUR perceived value of DeRosa doesn't mean anything. Especially when we have evidence of what his actual value was -- three marginal prosects, and then a few months later, one fairly decent prospect.

 

That may be the precise definition of "sell high", but don't you think the return has to be at least considered? I mean, just getting rid of a player at his peak value (up to that point) is of no value in a vacuum...it's all about the return value. Just for sake of argument (b/c I'm not necessarily saying it's true), when Duquette traded Kazmir for V Zambrano, and a Mets fan were told "But Kazmir's value is higher than it's ever been. We had to sell high", how should said Mets fan react?

[chuckywang]

HENDRY YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So what exactly could he have done? The Cubs team doesn't have somebody comparable to Chris Perez. .

 

 

Who's responsible for that?

 

So Hendry should have had the foresight to stack the major league roster with players that might have been good trade bait for DeRosa somewhere down the line should the Indians season go into the tank? Criticize Hendry for trading DeRosa in the first place? Sure. Criticize him for signing off-injured Milton Bradley? Understandable. Criticize him for not being able to nix this trade? That doesn't make sense.

[Larry Horse]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1643290,CST-SPT-cub29.article

 

Interesting reactions by some Cubs players.

 

Looks like they must overvalue DeRosa like the Cub fans who didn't like the trade.

[dew1679666265]

For all the complaints that Hendry never sold high on anyone, he certainly did with DeRosa.

 

Ugh. No, he didn't. "Sold high" implies that you got max value for the guy. Hendry oculdn't even get a major league reliever for DeRosa. He did not sell high. The Indians just got a better package for him than the Cubs got.

Umm, no. Sold high doesn't mean that at all. Sold high means that he traded that player when that player's value was higher than it's ever previously been. YOUR perceived value of DeRosa doesn't mean anything. Especially when we have evidence of what his actual value was -- three marginal prosects, and then a few months later, one fairly decent prospect.

 

Okay, so if "selling high" can include things like selling a player for an unimpressive package when he's at his peak value, then why is "selling high" so good in this situation? At least the Indians got a guy who is helping the major league team right now.

 

Plus the Cards traded for 3 months of him. The Indians traded for 6 months of him when they got him from the Cubs.

 

The key to selling high is making sure you get appropriate value. DeRosa was sold high when we traded him for three decent prospects with high upside. The problem is, I think he was worth more to this team than those three prospects were.

 

And you can't just consider one player the best and thus the package is better. If all three of Archer, Gaub and Stevens become close to the talent level of Perez, the Cubs got the better deal by a longshot. You have to consider the entire package, not just increments of it.

 

You also can't ignore the desperation factor. The Cardinals were just trading for 3 months of DeRo, but the Indians had the ability to play off the need much more in the middle of the season than were it the offseason. Need most definitely plays a factor in the return for a deal and need is highest when a team is fighting for a playoff spot.

Edited June 29, 2009 by dew

[Banedon]

According to one source, Cleveland expressed interest in lefty Sean Marshall, who has been a major -- if unsung -- part of the Cubs' staff the last two seasons as a swingman. Whether DeRosa could have been had for another pitcher or package of players, the Cubs clearly weren't ready to be as aggressive as the Cardinals.

[Tyrant]

 

Looks like they must overvalue DeRosa like the Cub fans who didn't like the trade.

 

I'm not sure it's possible to overvalue Mark DeRosa and what he meant to the Cubs. He was the heart, fire, soul, passion, integrity and compass of this team.

[jersey cubs fan]

For all the complaints that Hendry never sold high on anyone, he certainly did with DeRosa.

 

Ugh. No, he didn't. "Sold high" implies that you got max value for the guy. Hendry oculdn't even get a major league reliever for DeRosa. He did not sell high. The Indians just got a better package for him than the Cubs got.

Umm, no. Sold high doesn't mean that at all. Sold high means that he traded that player when that player's value was higher than it's ever previously been. YOUR perceived value of DeRosa doesn't mean anything. Especially when we have evidence of what his actual value was -- three marginal prosects, and then a few months later, one fairly decent prospect.

 

Okay, so if "selling high" can include things like selling a player for an unimpressive package when he's at his peak value, then why is "selling high" so good in this situation? At least the Indians got a guy who is helping the major league team right now.

 

Plus the Cards traded for 3 months of him. The Indians traded for 6 months of him when they got him from the Cubs.

 

The key to selling high is making sure you get appropriate value. DeRosa was sold high when we traded him for three decent prospects with high upside. The problem is, I think he was worth more to this team than those three prospects were.

 

And you can't just consider one player the best and thus the package is better. If all three of Archer, Gaub and Stevens become close to the talent level of Perez, the Cubs got the better deal by a longshot. You have to consider the entire package, not just increments of it.

 

You also can't ignore the desperation factor. The Cardinals were just trading for 3 months of DeRo, but the Indians had the ability to play off the need much more in the middle of the season than were it the offseason. Need most definitely plays a factor in the return for a deal and need is highest when a team is fighting for a playoff spot.

 

Or need may be higher when a GM that spends like a drunken sailor panics during an offseason when nobody was spending money and he wanted left handed bats and to save a couple bucks.

[jersey cubs fan]

HENDRY YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So what exactly could he have done? The Cubs team doesn't have somebody comparable to Chris Perez. .

 

 

Who's responsible for that?

 

So Hendry should have had the foresight to stack the major league roster with players that might have been good trade bait for DeRosa somewhere down the line should the Indians season go into the tank? Criticize Hendry for trading DeRosa in the first place? Sure. Criticize him for signing off-injured Milton Bradley? Understandable. Criticize him for not being able to nix this trade? That doesn't make sense.

 

But excusing him for not making the team better now because his previous moves made it nearly impossible to improve the team, that does make sense?

[Little Slide Rooter]

 

Looks like they must overvalue DeRosa like the Cub fans who didn't like the trade.

 

I'm not sure it's possible to overvalue Mark DeRosa and what he meant to the Cubs. He was the heart, fire, soul, passion, integrity and compass of this team.

 

While we all loved Dero, I hope that was supposed to be in green.

 

I think we need to stop worrying about Derosa and start bracing ourslves for if and when the Cards get Holliday.

[Roast]

So I've been out of town for a couple days and thus haven't paid much attention to the news (or the cubs). I was just thinking on saturday "you know what would really suck/be hilarious, if the indians traded DeRo to the Cardinals. That would be hilariously bad." Then this morning i woke up and turned on ESPN to see DeRo making a real nice catch out in left field in a cardinals jersey.

 

baaahahahaha

[dew1679666265]

The key to selling high is making sure you get appropriate value. DeRosa was sold high when we traded him for three decent prospects with high upside. The problem is, I think he was worth more to this team than those three prospects were.

 

And you can't just consider one player the best and thus the package is better. If all three of Archer, Gaub and Stevens become close to the talent level of Perez, the Cubs got the better deal by a longshot. You have to consider the entire package, not just increments of it.

 

You also can't ignore the desperation factor. The Cardinals were just trading for 3 months of DeRo, but the Indians had the ability to play off the need much more in the middle of the season than were it the offseason. Need most definitely plays a factor in the return for a deal and need is highest when a team is fighting for a playoff spot.

 

Or need may be higher when a GM that spends like a drunken sailor panics during an offseason when nobody was spending money and he wanted left handed bats and to save a couple bucks.

 

The panic must not have been too high because Hendry got the better deal. I think this trade makes it more likely that Hendry got the best value he could for DeRo, but I won't argue that he shouldn't have been traded in the first place.

[Soul]

I just find it amusing that DeRo winds up on the Cardinals.

 

I'm sure Jim thought that he wouldn't have to endure the Cub fans giving standing ovations to DeRo anymore since the Indians left town.

 

Now he'll be coming to town more. It's just one more thing in an ever growing list of things that are piling up in the "negative" column for the '09 Cubs.

[CubmanPi]

DeRo didn't know how Cub fans felt before, his first return made that pretty clear. I really hope that now, Cubs fans have the decency boo him every plate appearance and defensive play.

[JonJayCutler]

DeRo didn't know how Cub fans felt before, his first return made that pretty clear. I really hope that now, Cubs fans have the decency boo him every plate appearance and defensive play.

 

I was thinking about that yesterday. Probably will be some boos, although its Jim's fault he is playing for the Cards, not Mark's. If he was a free agent who signed with the Cardinals, that'd probably be a little different.

[ManEatingTarp]

Yeah, as a Cards fan I'm pretty excited.

The price tag wasn't too high, and it does a couple much needed things. It provides Pujols a little more protection (no, I don't think he's going to see a steady diet of fastballs now) and it sends the message that they're serious about winning the division this year.

 

I think this might be the "big" move by the Cards however. I don't see the Holliday trade happening now. Perez (and several others) would have been a part of that deal.

 

It's a very solid move. His position flexibility on a La Russa team makes him very valuable. They still have problems with the 4-5 starters, and too many #6 hitters. It's a flawed team, but much better than they were on Friday.

[Keener98]

I know people like to brag up DeRo and stuff, but why has nothing been said that hes been horrible vs RH pitching this year? Hes hitting .251 with a .728 OPS against RH pitchers. The DeRo hype has gotten to really ridiculous levels.

[ManEatingTarp]

I know people like to brag up DeRo and stuff, but why has nothing been said that hes been horrible vs RH pitching this year? Hes hitting .251 with a .728 OPS against RH pitchers. The DeRo hype has gotten to really ridiculous levels.

 

I agree. While I think it's a perfect move for the Cards to make now, I don't want them to run out and sign him to a long term contract. He's a nice piece of the puzzle. Not the whole puzzle.

[UK1679666180]

Even though the Cubs didn't likely aggressively pursue Derosa and won't likely go after him, I would rather see them go after F. Sanchez than Derosa.

[Guest]

I know people like to brag up DeRo and stuff, but why has nothing been said that hes been horrible vs RH pitching this year? Hes hitting .251 with a .728 OPS against RH pitchers. The DeRo hype has gotten to really ridiculous levels.

 

What someone does with another team in a completely different league can't always be equally compared to what they might have done in the comforts of the team they were on prior to the trade.

 

How do these numbers compare to his career numbers?

 

I really don't know. I really don't care, either. I'm not mad that they didn't trade back for DeRosa. I'm mad that they traded him to begin with, only to replace him with the craptastic Aaron Miles.

[Clem Fandango]

I know people like to brag up DeRo and stuff, but why has nothing been said that hes been horrible vs RH pitching this year? Hes hitting .251 with a .728 OPS against RH pitchers. The DeRo hype has gotten to really ridiculous levels.

 

DeRo is overhyped because he was one of the few players on the Cubs who understood the importance of the team to its fans. And he understood that being on the Cubs had a much more special meaning than being on a team like, say, the Mariners. Combine that with above average play, great versatility, a care-free sense of humor, and taking accountability for himself and his actions when he played poorly... I mean he was just a class act. I think that plays into his hype much more than his ability.

[UK1679666180]

As well as Derosa knows the Cubs pitchers, they know his weaknesses better. Just watch how the Cubs pitch him with constant breaking and off-speed stuff while everyone else goes with the FB more.