2009 Bulls Offseason Thread

[Hall7810]

Ben Gordon just signed with Detroit. 5/55

 

I think long term it's better for the team

 

What did he turn down last off-season? Something very similar, correct?

[RedFlash]

Ben Gordon just signed with Detroit. 5/55

 

I think long term it's better for the team

 

No surprise. I wonder if this means it will either be a Rose/Hinrich backcourt, or a Rose/Salmons backcourt. Either way the Bulls prolly will need to sign either another guard or SF.

[hawkeyecub]

Ben Gordon just signed with Detroit. 5/55

 

I think long term it's better for the team

 

What did he turn down last off-season? Something very similar, correct?

 

6/$54 I believe

[SpongeWorthy]

So long, Ben. You were both infuriating and an absolute joy to watch sometimes. I'm going to hate seeing you in a Pistons uniform.

 

There's definitely going to be some growing pains without him but I think it's probably for the better. I think Hinrich should probably stay unless you package him for a true difference maker. We're going to need another ball handler and we can still use his defense.

 

I think we're going to need another 2/3.

[SpongeWorthy]

And Deng better show up this season.

[cubweiser03]

So long, Ben. You were both infuriating and an absolute joy to watch sometimes. I'm going to hate seeing you in a Pistons uniform.

 

There's definitely going to be some growing pains without him but I think it's probably for the better. I think Hinrich should probably stay unless you package him for a true difference maker. We're going to need another ball handler and we can still use his defense.

 

I think we're going to need another 2/3.

When Ben was on and on in the 4th is was great entertainment wasnt it. Ill miss him but im not scared about this. I really like Salmons in this offense with Rose. And yeah there is a lot riding on Dengs health. This $11M might of really hurt them getting and keeping Bosh. With Salmons in the fold i think this was worth that risk. If they can get Bosh we are talking big time champ contenders, Gordon + Rose, very good but not the traditional NBA 1-2 frontcourt/backcourt punch.

[Cubbie Swagger]

I think we'll be better off without Ben Gordon. Less wasted possessions.

 

I'm a big fan of John Salmons and I think we'll be fine going with Rose and him in the backcourt, with Hinrich rotating. Deng will be able to start at the three again, and hopefully he'll return to his old self. I like Tyrus, but I do not like Noah. I would rather start Miller. I think we could do well with a lineup like this:

 

1. Rose.

2. Salmons

3. Deng

4. Tyrus

5. Miller

 

Long term... I would try to bring in someone that can play center, though. I think we can groom Tyrus into an awesome forward. I'm assuming Bosh could play center. I think we have a great young core right now, though.

[Tyrant]

I think we'll be better off without Ben Gordon. Less wasted possessions.

 

That doesn't make any sense. You hate wasted possessions, but like John Salmons?

[Cubbie Swagger]

I think we'll be better off without Ben Gordon. Less wasted possessions.

 

That doesn't make any sense. You hate wasted possessions, but like John Salmons?

Yes. Salmons doesn't have the same problem Gordon does. Gordon gets the ball, and then decides he's going to shoot it no matter what. Even if he's triple-teamed, he'll still throw up a terrible shot, totally off balance. Every once in awhile he makes them, and then it looks like he's good, but he's just not playing smart. Nothing about Salmons' game jumps out at me the way it does with Gordon's.

[DivineBovine]

I think we'll be better off without Ben Gordon. Less wasted possessions.

 

That doesn't make any sense. You hate wasted possessions, but like John Salmons?

Yes. Salmons doesn't have the same problem Gordon does. Gordon gets the ball, and then decides he's going to shoot it no matter what. Even if he's triple-teamed, he'll still throw up a terrible shot, totally off balance. Every once in awhile he makes them, and then it looks like he's good, but he's just not playing smart. Nothing about Salmons' game jumps out at me the way it does with Gordon's.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. He can pour it in, but he's very one dimensional. It was often infuriating to watch him get fixated on shooting like Soriano gets fixated on swinging. He can't create his own shot off the dribble to save his life, and still can't play D. If he could train himself to play like Reggie Miller and shoot off screens, he might be more valuable, but I don't think that's BG. And for this reason, he was not great with Rose. He kept trying to create off the dribble, which negated much or Rose's strength which is driving to the basket and creating.

 

After hearing what the Bulls publicly said about Gordon, I was worried they might overpay for him, so this is somewhat of a relief. I don't think the Bulls could be a championship team with Gordon as a go-to guy, and with his game, he can't really be a role player.

 

I'd much rather they keep Hinrich than Gordon, although I wouldn't be against trading Hinrich if a good deal came along.

[Flames24Rulz]

This really shouldn't be aggravating me all that much, but it is. Terribly. Last year I was really frustrated with how the Packers management handled the Favre fiasco but over time, that passed. Besides that, this is the most frustrated I think I've been with one of my favorite team's management; including the Cubs, of course.

 

To let Ben Gordon walk away while getting nothing in return flat out makes me sick. Yes I understand his shortcomings and yes I realize that he can be a pain to watch at times. But there's absolutely no denying that he makes the Bulls a better team and that he is one of the best pure scorers in the league. Not only did we let him leave with getting nothing in return, but we let him go to the [expletive] Pistons, no less. Throughout his tenure here, BG has been nothing but the consummate professional. He never once bitched about playing time when he could have throughout the Skiles years and he didn't complain about getting a big payday at all last year. He went out on the court everyday and did his job and that was it. Sure he didn't give you any big flare on or off the court (besides the nut-grabbing after Game 4), but who cares? I really think he was one of the more underappreciated players that I can ever remember.

 

That's what I think of BG. Now onto the managment. It's asinine how this organization can shell out $70 million for Luol [expletive] Deng (and look up the thread last year, I said it was horrible at the time) but they can't pay Ben Gordon when Gordon has been the better player throughout their careers here. I understand it's a tough economy and I understand that we're playing it real close to the cap. But a couple of things stand out here. One, we have more than a few tradeable assets on this team that we could have shipped off if we re-signed Gordon (namely, Kirk Hinrich). Also would it be such a hindrance for Reinsdorf to pay the luxury tax for one year? The Bulls always make the biggest profit out of any team in the league. With so many expiring contracts coming off the books in 2010, Reinsdorf would only have to pay the tax for one year. Apparently he's too busy trying to get the Coyotes and he could not care less about the Bulls anyway, it seems like.

 

Forman's a figurehead, so I'm not really going to say anything about him. It's evident that Pax is still and will continue to run the team. The guy just can't handle pressure situations and one like this is why he backed out of the "GM'ing" duties. He doesn't want to face the media on instances like these. Well Mr. Paxson, congratulations. You had several chances to include Gordon in trades to land big-name players and yet you passed. Now you let a guy that averages over 20 points a game to just walk away to Detroit. Thanks for hitting the shot in 93, but you're a [expletive] terrible GM that needs to get the hell out of Chicago. The way this Gordon fiasco was handled was embarrassing to everyone involved. You low-balled the [expletive] out of him and then when Gordon actually was going to accept the 6-year deal last year, you pull the offer off the table. It's evident that Pax never cared for Gordon, probably because he was never a great defender. Who knows, maybe Pax didn't like BG's "attitude issues."

 

In spite of all of that, I'm pretty sure his 2010 plan is going to come tumbling and crashing down when we land some second or third tier free agent in next year's class. I have absolutely no confidence in these jackasses to land a star. In the Paxson administration, we've been waiting for a star for years and that still hasn't happened. He's enamored with his draft picks and that's never going to change. I'm just getting a lot of flashbacks to the 99 offseason when we couldn't land McGrady, Duncan, or Hill and had to settle for Ron Mercer. Thankfully the next wave of free agents are a lot better than Ron Mercer, but I am not going to get my hopes up for Bosh, Amare, or DWade.

 

Make no mistake, I don't think BG is a superstar. I think he's a very good player that has a place on a good team. If you surround him with the right pieces like Rose and a great big, I think he can be part of a championship team. It's been real Ben. I hope you tear it up in Detroit and prove these assholes wrong.

[RedFlash]

Flames;

 

Ben Gordon had two yrs to negotiate a contract, and refused and/or ignore the Bulls offer. So don't blame Gordon leaving on Deng. Deng wised up and took the offer, BG didn't.

 

Losing BG, to me, is no big deal. We've seen talented, yet frustrating players move on (ie Jamal Crawford) and we're better off after said player left. Gordon wanted to leave, plain and simple. I don't care if we didn't get anything back (Technically that's not true, seeing as we got future cap space in return for not being saddled with a 2nd bad and unwise contract), BG is simply not a player to be upset about losing.

[Flames24Rulz]

Flames;

 

Ben Gordon had two yrs to negotiate a contract, and refused and/or ignore the Bulls offer. So don't blame Gordon leaving on Deng. Deng wised up and took the offer, BG didn't.

 

Losing BG, to me, is no big deal. We've seen talented, yet frustrating players move on (ie Jamal Crawford) and we're better off after said player left. Gordon wanted to leave, plain and simple. I don't care if we didn't get anything back (Technically that's not true, seeing as we got future cap space in return for not being saddled with a 2nd bad and unwise contract), BG is simply not a player to be upset about losing.

 

While that's true, they still low-balled him compared to the offer that Deng received. When he did want to accept the deal they offered him last summer, they pulled it and he could only accept the qualifying offer. He has a terrible agent, make no mistake about it. It was evident from day one that this team viewed Deng as the better player even though Gordon was obviously the better player on the court. He was under appreciated by management and by a segment of fans.

 

I know I shouldn't be as upset as I am but 20 point per game scorers don't just grow on trees. Salmons had a career year last year. Who's to say that he doesn't regress back to his typical production? I think the combination of Rose-Gordon-Salmons worked extremely well together. Now it seems like we're counting on Deng to be healthy and good, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. This offense will be very painful to watch if something does happen to Salmons because having Kirk Hinrich at the 2 is absolutely brutal.

 

Again, I know I'm overexaggerating BG's loss. But I do think people should be upset about losing for him because he does make our team better. Period.

[reds44]

You have to stop bringing up Deng. His contract is awful, but when he got it he was an 18/8 player who looked like he could only get better. You can't compare Gordon's offer to what Deng got, because neither deserved it.

[Flames24Rulz]

You have to stop bringing up Deng. His contract is awful, but when he got it he was an 18/8 player who looked like he could only get better. You can't compare Gordon's offer to what Deng got, because neither deserved it.

 

Deng got his deal after the 08 season. The 18/8 season was when we made it to the conference semis in 2007.

[reds44]

You have to stop bringing up Deng. His contract is awful, but when he got it he was an 18/8 player who looked like he could only get better. You can't compare Gordon's offer to what Deng got, because neither deserved it.

 

Deng got his deal after the 08 season. The 18/8 season was when we made it to the conference semis in 2007.

And he averaged 17/6 that year. So he was coming off years of 18/8 and 17/6.

[rawaction]

Flames;

 

Ben Gordon had two yrs to negotiate a contract, and refused and/or ignore the Bulls offer. So don't blame Gordon leaving on Deng. Deng wised up and took the offer, BG didn't.

 

Losing BG, to me, is no big deal. We've seen talented, yet frustrating players move on (ie Jamal Crawford) and we're better off after said player left. Gordon wanted to leave, plain and simple. I don't care if we didn't get anything back (Technically that's not true, seeing as we got future cap space in return for not being saddled with a 2nd bad and unwise contract), BG is simply not a player to be upset about losing.

 

While that's true, they still low-balled him compared to the offer that Deng received. When he did want to accept the deal they offered him last summer, they pulled it and he could only accept the qualifying offer. He has a terrible agent, make no mistake about it. It was evident from day one that this team viewed Deng as the better player even though Gordon was obviously the better player on the court. He was under appreciated by management and by a segment of fans.

 

I know I shouldn't be as upset as I am but 20 point per game scorers don't just grow on trees. Salmons had a career year last year. Who's to say that he doesn't regress back to his typical production? I think the combination of Rose-Gordon-Salmons worked extremely well together. Now it seems like we're counting on Deng to be healthy and good, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. This offense will be very painful to watch if something does happen to Salmons because having Kirk Hinrich at the 2 is absolutely brutal.

 

Again, I know I'm overexaggerating BG's loss. But I do think people should be upset about losing for him because he does make our team better. Period.

 

Agree. 100%. It hurts more that he's right next door in Detroit. In the same division. Facing the Bulls 4 times over the next 5 years.

 

He's not an ideal player with his lack of 2G size and his 1-dimensional skills as a scorer, but he provided something that the Bulls didn't have from anywhere else and are sorely lacking right now.

[rawaction]

Ahh well. Hopefully this time next year, the Bulls are replacing Gordon with Dwayne Wade.

 

I don't see Wade and Rose working well together.

 

Everyone says that, and it doesn't make sense. Every player that can honestly call himself a great player can play with anyone.

[hawkeyecub]

Ahh well. Hopefully this time next year, the Bulls are replacing Gordon with Dwayne Wade.

 

I don't see Wade and Rose working well together.

 

Everyone says that, and it doesn't make sense. Every player that can honestly call himself a great player can play with anyone.

 

They both need the ball in their hands to do what they do. Neither plays very well off the ball. Neither is a 3-point shooter. They're two 6'3-6'4 guys who dominate the ball, can't shoot from the outside and have to drive to the rim while running a lot of pick and rolls.

 

I'm not saying they couldn't play together, I just don't think it's a great fit.

[Derwood]

so is the assumption that the only signing the Bulls will make is for their mid-level exception this year, or will they not even use that? I haven't heard about anyone being on their radar at all

[Tyrant]

Couldn't agree more. He can pour it in, but he's very one dimensional. It was often infuriating to watch him get fixated on shooting like Soriano gets fixated on swinging. He can't create his own shot off the dribble to save his life, and still can't play D. If he could train himself to play like Reggie Miller and shoot off screens, he might be more valuable, but I don't think that's BG. And for this reason, he was not great with Rose. He kept trying to create off the dribble, which negated much or Rose's strength which is driving to the basket and creating.

 

Almost every single thing you said is a vague generalization about Ben Gordon that isn't backed up by any evidence. For example, you said he can't create his own shot, but he also doesn't know how to come off screens. Yet 85 percent of his shots were jumpers last season and he efficiently averaged 21 ppg. 21 points on 16 shots a game. That's very good.

 

I'd much rather they keep Hinrich than Gordon

 

This is dumb. This is like saying, "I'd rather keep Ryan Theriot than Aramis Ramirez." Why would you "rather they keep" a worse basketball player?

 

Ben Gordon had two yrs to negotiate a contract, and refused and/or ignore the Bulls offer. So don't blame Gordon leaving on Deng. Deng wised up and took the offer, BG didn't.

 

No. Last summer, Gordon was mulling over an offer from the Bulls and they gave him a deadline to accept it (why they gave him a deadline, I have no idea). Shortly after their arbitrary deadline had passed, Gordon came back to accept the offer and Reinsdorf yanked it off the table.

[Tyrant]

Also, I think people are underestimating Gordon's health and how valuable that is. In his five years, he's averaged 79.6 games played a year. If you're going to pay a player $11 million a year in hopes that he's on the floor every night, Gordon is a pretty good bet. Edited July 2, 2009 by Tyrant

[Soul]

Can't just dismiss that we lost our leading scorer, even if he was deficient in other areas.

 

I'm a little nervous about the outside game now. Hopefully this leads to a better signing in the future.

[hawkeyecub]

I'm not sure how anyone can come to the conclusion that Gordon can't create his own shot.

[bukie]

Gordon was great at creating opportunities for himself. However, he was lousy at creating opportunities for anybody else. So, pretty much the entire league knew that once the ball went into Gordon's hands on the offensive end, it wasn't going anywhere else but towards the basket.