Cub prospects in the news

[toonsterwu]

So, there's an article about Vitters. Not sure it's been noted here, but

 

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120410/SPORTS/304100088/Iowa-Cubs-No-1-pick-Vitters-still-looking-for-promotion.

 

Nothing really new, but one quote in there allows me to talk about something from a couple years ago.

“When I got drafted, I figured four or five years would be an expectation about when I thought I might be in the (majors),” he said, “but I was just coming out of high school.

 

“Obviously I didn’t realize all the work it takes to get there.”

 

This shouldn't be taken as a knock on Vitters, as he was awfully young, but that year he went to Peoria, then got sent down to Boise and never came back up? I kept hearing that the Cubs weren't bringing him back up because they wanted him to be a bit more involved, show a bit more work ethic. Basically, force him to earn his way back up.

 

Of course, subsequent years would see him got bumped up when it was debatable if he dominated a level, but it's interesting to hear Vitters acknowledge that, 5 years ago, he didn't understand the work needed to make it to the majors.

[SouthSideRyan]

I do think it's important to every so often be reminded that Vitters is 22 years old.

[SABR Gamer]

Hey what date do the Cubs have to wait til for Anthony Rizzo to have that extra year of team control?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Hey what date do the Cubs have to wait til for Anthony Rizzo to have that extra year of team control?

 

There's no exact date. It's sort of complicated. (warning, this is all sort of gleaned from various web sites, and with baseball you never know if there aren't some secret rules they just haven't bothered to tell anyone about).

 

Every day on the major league roster (or the DL) during the regular season = 1 day of service time. Rizzo already has 68 days of service time.

 

172 days of service time = 1 year.

 

However, the major league season is always a little longer than 172 days. It can vary year to year, but the most common season configuration is 181 days long. So he can get 9 extra days, give or take, per season just by being on the roster all year long.

 

If we don't want him to be a free agent after the offseason of 2017, we have to make sure he has less than 1032 (172x6) days of service going into that offseason. Or put another way, we don't want his current service time + his 2012 service time + his extra days to get to 172.

 

If he gains 9 extra days of service time for each of the next 5 years, that's 45, plus the 68 he already has = 113. That means we could afford to use him for 58 days this season before it costs us a year of eligibility in the future.

 

Realistically, he has to stay in the minors until mid-August to be sure of not gaining the extra year of service time.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I do think it's important to every so often be reminded that Vitters is 22 years old.

 

Imagine you at 17 being drafted top 3 in a sport...17 year old me would be surrounded by so many big titted white women.

[CubColtPacer]

Hey what date do the Cubs have to wait til for Anthony Rizzo to have that extra year of team control?

 

There's no exact date. It's sort of complicated. (warning, this is all sort of gleaned from various web sites, and with baseball you never know if there aren't some secret rules they just haven't bothered to tell anyone about).

 

Every day on the major league roster (or the DL) during the regular season = 1 day of service time. Rizzo already has 68 days of service time.

 

172 days of service time = 1 year.

 

However, the major league season is always a little longer than 172 days. It can vary year to year, but the most common season configuration is 181 days long. So he can get 9 extra days, give or take, per season just by being on the roster all year long.

 

If we don't want him to be a free agent after the offseason of 2017, we have to make sure he has less than 1032 (172x6) days of service going into that offseason. Or put another way, we don't want his current service time + his 2012 service time + his extra days to get to 172.

 

If he gains 9 extra days of service time for each of the next 5 years, that's 45, plus the 68 he already has = 113. That means we could afford to use him for 58 days this season before it costs us a year of eligibility in the future.

 

Realistically, he has to stay in the minors until mid-August to be sure of not gaining the extra year of service time.

 

You can't get more than a year of service time in any year. So those extra days will not help Rizzo.

[imb]

I do think it's important to every so often be reminded that Vitters is 22 years old.

 

Imagine you at 17 being drafted top 3 in a sport...17 year old me would be surrounded by so many big titted white women.

 

god youre the worst

[SABR Gamer]

Hey what date do the Cubs have to wait til for Anthony Rizzo to have that extra year of team control?

 

There's no exact date. It's sort of complicated. (warning, this is all sort of gleaned from various web sites, and with baseball you never know if there aren't some secret rules they just haven't bothered to tell anyone about).

 

Every day on the major league roster (or the DL) during the regular season = 1 day of service time. Rizzo already has 68 days of service time.

 

172 days of service time = 1 year.

 

However, the major league season is always a little longer than 172 days. It can vary year to year, but the most common season configuration is 181 days long. So he can get 9 extra days, give or take, per season just by being on the roster all year long.

 

If we don't want him to be a free agent after the offseason of 2017, we have to make sure he has less than 1032 (172x6) days of service going into that offseason. Or put another way, we don't want his current service time + his 2012 service time + his extra days to get to 172.

 

If he gains 9 extra days of service time for each of the next 5 years, that's 45, plus the 68 he already has = 113. That means we could afford to use him for 58 days this season before it costs us a year of eligibility in the future.

 

Realistically, he has to stay in the minors until mid-August to be sure of not gaining the extra year of service time.

 

You can't get more than a year of service time in any year. So those extra days will not help Rizzo.

 

Yeah I was under the impression that a player couldn't get more than 172 days of service time a year. Anything above 172 days still counts as 172.

[Guest]

Which would mean that Rizzo would be good to go at the All-Star break.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Actually, screw it. Message board alphas who can't even use punctuation or grammar can't possibly even be kinda sorta worth it. NDT meme is peeeeerfect for this but again, screw it. Legitimately give zero fucks anyway. Edited April 12, 2012 by PriortoTheoIhadWood

[SABR Gamer]

Hey what date do the Cubs have to wait til for Anthony Rizzo to have that extra year of team control?

 

There's no exact date. It's sort of complicated. (warning, this is all sort of gleaned from various web sites, and with baseball you never know if there aren't some secret rules they just haven't bothered to tell anyone about).

 

Every day on the major league roster (or the DL) during the regular season = 1 day of service time. Rizzo already has 68 days of service time.

 

172 days of service time = 1 year.

 

However, the major league season is always a little longer than 172 days. It can vary year to year, but the most common season configuration is 181 days long. So he can get 9 extra days, give or take, per season just by being on the roster all year long.

 

If we don't want him to be a free agent after the offseason of 2017, we have to make sure he has less than 1032 (172x6) days of service going into that offseason. Or put another way, we don't want his current service time + his 2012 service time + his extra days to get to 172.

 

If he gains 9 extra days of service time for each of the next 5 years, that's 45, plus the 68 he already has = 113. That means we could afford to use him for 58 days this season before it costs us a year of eligibility in the future.

 

Realistically, he has to stay in the minors until mid-August to be sure of not gaining the extra year of service time.

 

Okay so from a combination of what you said and other websites, is it June (68 days into the season) for team control through 2018 and late August to prevent him from being a super 2?

 

How badly do we want to avoid Super 2 with Rizzo?

[SABR Gamer]

Which would mean that Rizzo would be good to go at the All-Star break.

 

I guess that seems like a good target. I can't wait to see him hit bombs at Wrigley.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You can't get more than a year of service time in any year. So those extra days will not help Rizzo.

 

I had a feeling I was going to screw something up in all that.

 

That means we can get 103 days out of him this season, which puts his call-up date around June 23.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Okay so from a combination of what you said and other websites, is it June (68 days into the season) for team control through 2018 and late August to prevent him from being a super 2?

 

How badly do we want to avoid Super 2 with Rizzo?

 

If he's ready, I don't think you waste 2 months of big league development for super 2. Super 2 service time changes from year to year too, so it's really not worth it in my opinion.

[davell]

I think he'll be up when we think he's ready. Same with Brett. Moves will be made to accomodate both of them, because of their importance. Perfect scenario would be getting that extra year out of it, but we're not Tampa. We're a major market team that's worried about their development, not when their service time kicks in.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think he'll be up when we think he's ready. Same with Brett. Moves will be made to accomodate both of them, because of their importance. Perfect scenario would be getting that extra year out of it, but we're not Tampa. We're a major market team that's worried about their development, not when their service time kicks in.

 

Rizzo would have to be putting up about a 1400 OPS to make it necessary to bring him before June 23rd. I don't really care about Super 2 status, so sure, bring up Jackson whenever, but shy of injuries to the OF, there's really nowhere to put him until after he probably gets past super 2 status.

[neely crenshaw]

Why would anyone even consider bringing up anyone before the vesting date? There is no chance of competing this year. Heck we may not win again before July. This is a business, and a long range plan. With the amount of holes that we need to fill there is no quick fixes of any kind-We may need until 2018 to put this together- hopefully not but there are some huge missing pieces and it does not appear that help is close.

[jersey cubs fan]

With the amount of holes that we need to fill there is no quick fixes of any kind-We may need until 2018 to put this together- hopefully not but

 

They would have to really tank hard to have to wait that long to make it work. There's no reason this team can't be good with a year or two if they ever start trying.

 

If guys are just shredding AAA and the major leaguers are horrible, then there would be reasons to consider calling up guys earlier. A) You have to expect a learning curve in the majors, so the earlier that starts the earlier they can get past it. B) Development can stall if guys are hanging around a level they are dominating for months. C) If it becomes painfully obvious that the only reason they are keeping players down is for vesting purposes, it can cause some friction with both those players and potentially others in the organization. You can erode trust for future prospects about how they will be treated.

 

That being said, they'd really have to be destroying everything with a painfully obvious hole on the big club to make me consider giving up those vesting advantages.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Why would anyone even consider bringing up anyone before the vesting date? There is no chance of competing this year. Heck we may not win again before July. This is a business, and a long range plan. With the amount of holes that we need to fill there is no quick fixes of any kind-We may need until 2018 to put this together- hopefully not but there are some huge missing pieces and it does not appear that help is close.

 

As ugly as the big league product currently on the field, you're discounting what we have. 3 of the toughest spots to fill with offensive players are SS, CF, and C. We seemingly have all 3 lined up with Castro, Jackson, and Castillo. Additionally, we have 1B with Rizzo, and maybe 3rd between Vitters, Lake, and Stewart(yes, stewart). We have something in Barney, be it a starting 2B or a quality utility MI, something that is underappreciated. Perhaps Cardenas could be at 2nd as well.Sappelt should be a quality 4th OF, and maybe Lahair ends up as an OF, or if nothing else lefty power bat for the bench. Clevenger is a good backup C.

 

As for pitching, if we extend Garza, there's a great fron end starter, although I'd prefer him as the 2 and acquire a proper ace. Additionally, between Shark, Volstad, McNutt, Maholm, Wood, Struck, and Wells we should have no problem rounding out the rotation. The bullpen is tough to tell. Dolis, Beliveau, and Russell seem to be the only sure things going forward at this time, but who knows.

 

So basically, what we really need going forward is 1 or 2 corner OFs. Soler's a possibility, but if we sign him, he's only 19 and could need a few years. I think that B.J. Upton, Delmon Young and Andre Ethier highlight the 2013 FA OF class next year, so I'm not sure the answer is there, although I wouldn't be opposed to spending a few bucks on Upton or Young, who are only 28 and 26 respectively. then we could certainly use an ace pitcher. Hamels would be beautiful, but I really don't see the Phils letting him go.

 

My guess would be that by opening day 2014, we'll see something very close to Theo and Jeds vision.

[Guest]

By what measure is the Matt Garza that we've had not a "proper ace?" W-L and ERA?

[SouthSideRyan]

By what measure is the Matt Garza that we've had not a "proper ace?" W-L and ERA?

 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57464&p=2441671&hilit=derivative#p2441671

 

These are the things that I catalog in my memory rather than where I left my keys last night.

Edited April 13, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[davell]

If Garza IS the Garza we've had, then he is an ace. Nice article on Fangraphs today about this, by the way. I want him and another guy on his level. Don't care which is considered the 1 or 2 obviously. And if Garza is dealt, we had better be getting a couple of guys in return with his type of potential.

[Guest]

Timely.

 

Matt Garza, Legitimate Number One Starter

[Guest]

If Garza IS the Garza we've had, then he is an ace. Nice article on Fangraphs today about this, by the way. I want him and another guy on his level. Don't care which is considered the 1 or 2 obviously. And if Garza is dealt, we had better be getting a couple of guys in return with his type of potential.

 

Shark, man. Shark.

[Elrhino]

Why would anyone even consider bringing up anyone before the vesting date? There is no chance of competing this year. Heck we may not win again before July. This is a business, and a long range plan. With the amount of holes that we need to fill there is no quick fixes of any kind-We may need until 2018 to put this together- hopefully not but there are some huge missing pieces and it does not appear that help is close.

 

Especially bringing up Rizzo before his vesting date when LaHair is picking up right where he left off last year. Even if one thinks LaHair is fool's gold long term, let him continue to rack up the plate appearances and continue to mash and prop up his trade value.