Who Should Be In The Cubs Bullpen?

[Post Count Padder]

According to Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, lefty Royce Ring was placed on waivers by the Cardinals. If he clears, he'll have the option of heading to Triple A or electing free agency. The Cards don't have a need for Ring given the presence of Trever Miller and Dennys Reyes.

 

He was bad in the majors last year but would he be worth a minor league deal in case Cotts sucks?

[Cubswin11]

What if we decide to start Gaudin/Vizcaino/Guzman on the DL with an "injury" and try to let everything else sort itself out. We would have time to keep Patton and see if he has what it takes to stay in the majors and whoever out of Gauding/Vizcaino/Guzman stays up if one of them really suck we can cut/trade/DL them and bring in the other guy after he comes back from his "injury"

[Little Slide Rooter]

What if we decide to start Gaudin/Vizcaino/Guzman on the DL with an "injury" and try to let everything else sort itself out. We would have time to keep Patton and see if he has what it takes to stay in the majors and whoever out of Gauding/Vizcaino/Guzman stays up if one of them really suck we can cut/trade/DL them and bring in the other guy after he comes back from his "injury"

 

The problem with that is that most players arent too keen on being DLd with an "injury" if they dont have an actual injury. Of course with Goozes history, he may end up with an actual injury.

[Cubswin11]

What if we decide to start Gaudin/Vizcaino/Guzman on the DL with an "injury" and try to let everything else sort itself out. We would have time to keep Patton and see if he has what it takes to stay in the majors and whoever out of Gauding/Vizcaino/Guzman stays up if one of them really suck we can cut/trade/DL them and bring in the other guy after he comes back from his "injury"

 

The problem with that is that most players arent too keen on being DLd with an "injury" if they dont have an actual injury. Of course with Goozes history, he may end up with an actual injury.

Yeah I know it would take one of them to actually accept doing that, but with the way Gaudin has pitched this spring it's quite possible there is something wrong with him.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think that Guzman could be traded before the end of ST.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think that Guzman could be traded before the end of ST.

 

Well, we were running low on bits of string.

[CubsWin]

I think that Guzman could be traded before the end of ST.

A very real possibility for sure. But one that I would be disappointed to see happen. Especially if he doesn't bring back anything worthwhile in return. He should net more than Vizcaino even with his injury history because of his low price and the fact that when he's good, he's really good and all Vizcaino seems capable of these days is being a roogy.

 

Is that even a term?

 

However, I think because of the Cubs depth in the pen with players like Kevin Hart performing well but likely going to AAA, Guzman has more value to the Cubs. His injury history isn't a factor for us. Neither would it be a concern if he didn't pitch well. Hendry has Hart and, if need be, Samardzija waiting to step in. But if Guzman maintains what he's been able to do since his side session with LR, he can be very good, build up some real trade value and possibly be moved at the deadline if circumstances warrant.

[Little Slide Rooter]

After watching todays game, I wonder if Chad Fox has a chance to enter the mix. His stats have looked good all ST, but today, I watched him for the first time, and he looked sharper than Ive seen him in either of his last CUbs stints. After a rough start, Vizcaino is pulling it together, and Guzman has been hit or miss. Gaudin has been brutal, and its beoming the assumption that Shark will end up in Iowa to work some things out.

[CubsWin]

Against my will, I'm throwing Chad Fox's name back into the mix. He looked good. Hitting his spots with a fastball sitting at 93-94. Good control of a sharp breaking ball. I know his injury history suggests that he won't last very long, but if Lou follows through on his statement to take the pitchers that are performing the best, he has to be considered.

[Illini Iceman]

Against my will, I'm throwing Chad Fox's name back into the mix. He looked good. Hitting his spots with a fastball sitting at 93-94. Good control of a sharp breaking ball. I know his injury history suggests that he won't last very long, but if Lou follows through on his statement to take the pitchers that are performing the best, he has to be considered.

 

The Cubs are already going to have to lose either Patton or Guzman if they keep Gaudin and Vizcaino. Keeping Fox means they have to give up one more of those guys since the Cubs don't have the option of sending any of them to AAA. Lou can say whatever he wants about the best guys making the team but Hendry still will have some say if keeping certain guys means the Cubs losing others from the organization (especially if they are guys the team owes significant money to like Gaudin and Vizcaino). Fox has had a nice spring but I don't think he has been dominant enough that he has forced the Cubs to put him on the opening day roster. Fox will most likely take the AAA assignment with the promise they will look for a chance to either get him up to Chicago or or send him to another team if he is successful down there.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Im thinking that Vizcaino id a lock at this point. Gaudin, not so much.

 

Gaudin has shown no signs of improvement this spring, and it would be hard to justify chosing him over Gooz, Patton, or Fox simply becasue hes being overpaid. The question is, would Gaudin accept a minor league assignment or look elsewhere? Even if another team does take him on, theyd have to pay the Cubs league minumum, leaving us with only 1.5 mil to eat, which is better than 2 mil. I say cut the chord and take our chances.

[Tracer Bullet]

Im thinking that Vizcaino id a lock at this point. Gaudin, not so much.

 

Gaudin has shown no signs of improvement this spring, and it would be hard to justify chosing him over Gooz, Patton, or Fox simply becasue hes being overpaid. The question is, would Gaudin accept a minor league assignment or look elsewhere? Even if another team does take him on, theyd have to pay the Cubs league minumum, leaving us with only 1.5 mil to eat, which is better than 2 mil. I say cut the chord and take our chances.

 

Gaudin's got several years of solid production in MLB. What does Patton have? ST numbers?

[Illini Iceman]

Im thinking that Vizcaino id a lock at this point. Gaudin, not so much.

 

Gaudin has shown no signs of improvement this spring, and it would be hard to justify chosing him over Gooz, Patton, or Fox simply becasue hes being overpaid. The question is, would Gaudin accept a minor league assignment or look elsewhere? Even if another team does take him on, theyd have to pay the Cubs league minumum, leaving us with only 1.5 mil to eat, which is better than 2 mil. I say cut the chord and take our chances.

 

Gaudin's got several years of solid production in MLB. What does Patton have? ST numbers?

 

I agree that Gaudin should make the team, but that being said he really needs to get his s**t together. He has been bad all spring and was bad at the end of last season. Piniella seems to be giving him every chance to pitch his way out of whatever issues he is having, but once the season starts it's going to really suck if he is a gas can out of the bullpen. The Cubs are going to need him to give them some quality middle / long relief innings and probably fill in as a reliable spot starter from time to time so if he fails it is going to hurt the whole pitching staff.

[CubsWin]

Against my will, I'm throwing Chad Fox's name back into the mix. He looked good. Hitting his spots with a fastball sitting at 93-94. Good control of a sharp breaking ball. I know his injury history suggests that he won't last very long, but if Lou follows through on his statement to take the pitchers that are performing the best, he has to be considered.

 

The Cubs are already going to have to lose either Patton or Guzman if they keep Gaudin and Vizcaino. Keeping Fox means they have to give up one more of those guys since the Cubs don't have the option of sending any of them to AAA. Lou can say whatever he wants about the best guys making the team but Hendry still will have some say if keeping certain guys means the Cubs losing others from the organization (especially if they are guys the team owes significant money to like Gaudin and Vizcaino). Fox has had a nice spring but I don't think he has been dominant enough that he has forced the Cubs to put him on the opening day roster. Fox will most likely take the AAA assignment with the promise they will look for a chance to either get him up to Chicago or or send him to another team if he is successful down there.

I never advocated for keeping Viz, Gaudin and Fox. Only said that he has, against my will, worked his way back into consideration. Though I do hope you're right and Fox is offered and accepts a AAA assignment.

[CubsWin]

Im thinking that Vizcaino id a lock at this point. Gaudin, not so much.

 

Gaudin has shown no signs of improvement this spring, and it would be hard to justify chosing him over Gooz, Patton, or Fox simply becasue hes being overpaid. The question is, would Gaudin accept a minor league assignment or look elsewhere? Even if another team does take him on, theyd have to pay the Cubs league minumum, leaving us with only 1.5 mil to eat, which is better than 2 mil. I say cut the chord and take our chances.

 

Gaudin's got several years of solid production in MLB. What does Patton have? ST numbers?

 

I agree that Gaudin should make the team, but that being said he really needs to get his s**t together. He has been bad all spring and was bad at the end of last season. Piniella seems to be giving him every chance to pitch his way out of whatever issues he is having, but once the season starts it's going to really suck if he is a gas can out of the bullpen. The Cubs are going to need him to give them some quality middle / long relief innings and probably fill in as a reliable spot starter from time to time so if he fails it is going to hurt the whole pitching staff.

I totally agree. Lou is giving him every opportunity to turn things around and Gaudin really needs to get it together and soon. But I'm not certain the Cubs are going to need Chad at all. His role would be to provide middle relief and be the spot starter. Kevin Hart can provide those services and has been more effective than Gaudin has this spring. He is less proven at the major league level, but has had some success. I would prefer to go with the safer bet in Gaudin, but only if he starts getting hitters out.

 

Does anyone know if Gaudin can be sent to the minors without clearing waivers? If the Cubs don't want to break camp with him, are their only options to place him on the DL, trade him or risk losing him on waivers?

[CubsWin]

Im thinking that Vizcaino id a lock at this point. Gaudin, not so much.

 

Gaudin has shown no signs of improvement this spring, and it would be hard to justify chosing him over Gooz, Patton, or Fox simply becasue hes being overpaid. The question is, would Gaudin accept a minor league assignment or look elsewhere? Even if another team does take him on, theyd have to pay the Cubs league minumum, leaving us with only 1.5 mil to eat, which is better than 2 mil. I say cut the chord and take our chances.

 

Gaudin's got several years of solid production in MLB. What does Patton have? ST numbers?

The ability to get people out, currently.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly, btw. I trust Gaudin much more than Patton, but Chad has looked terrible, not just mediocre but downright awful this spring while Patton has done everything that has been asked of him. 10 Ks/2 BB in just under 10 innings allowing 8 hits and 1 run, and here's the kicker, while facing the same level of competition as Gaudin. Again, I'm not calling for the Cubs to take Patton over Gaudin, but I am concerned, very concerned about Chad's ability to get hitters out right now and David Patton is in the mix of options to be taken north instead.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Gaudin Spring Training 2006: 7.43 ERA in 13.1 IP

Gaudin Regular Season 2006: 143 ERA+ in 64 IP

 

Granted, Gaudin's peripherals weren't very good in 2006, but the point remains.

[Little Slide Rooter]

In reality, I wouldnt just dump Gaudin for a bad ST, however, I would definitely consider shopping him, maybe pulling in another back up infieder type in the process. Jeff Baker would be nice, however, if Gaudin does what hes done in ST and late 2008, Coors Field would be a less than ideal location for him to say the least.

[Little Slide Rooter]

From MLB Trade Rumors

 

Bruce Miles of the Daily Herald says the Cubs "appear to be getting some trade feelers" on out of options relievers Chad Gaudin and Angel Guzman. Moving one could create space for Rule 5 pick David Patton.

[jersey cubs fan]

Samardzija probably doesn't belong in the Cubs bullpen right now. Couldn't they keep Patton by sending Jeff to AAA to get innings as a starter?

[CubColtPacer]

Samardzija probably doesn't belong in the Cubs bullpen right now. Couldn't they keep Patton by sending Jeff to AAA to get innings as a starter?

 

Not if they keep all of Vizcaino, Gaudin, and Guzman. I think Jeff to AAA is assumed right now but the Cubs still have to clear even more room.

[jersey cubs fan]

Samardzija probably doesn't belong in the Cubs bullpen right now. Couldn't they keep Patton by sending Jeff to AAA to get innings as a starter?

 

Not if they keep all of Vizcaino, Gaudin, and Guzman. I think Jeff to AAA is assumed right now but the Cubs still have to clear even more room.

 

Vizcaino, Guadin, Guzman

Cotts, Marmol, Gregg

 

Oh, I'm missing Heilman.

 

I think Guzman may just be a lost cause at this point. But Harden starting on the DL (using 4 starters for a couple weeks) allows you to start with those 7 plus Patton, and gives you time to trade. Or, if Patton falls on his face once given the job, you can live with returning him if you have to.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I suppose if we really want to keep Patton, a deal with Colorodo could be struck to keep him even if he doesnt make the roster.

[wilk]

I suppose if we really want to keep Patton, a deal with Colorodo could be struck to keep him even if he doesnt make the roster.

 

Well if all we have to do is suppose... But it's not very likely that Patton would be passed up by every other team and that Colorado would want a trade.

[CubsWin]

Gaudin Spring Training 2006: 7.43 ERA in 13.1 IP

Gaudin Regular Season 2006: 143 ERA+ in 64 IP

 

Granted, Gaudin's peripherals weren't very good in 2006, but the point remains.

It could be that he just working on stuff or just takes longer than some to get tuned up. I would just feel a lot more comfortable seeing him get some guys out without runs scoring before the season starts. He's only done that once this spring and that was 3 weeks ago.

 

3/29 - 2 IP, 3 R, 3 ER, 3 H, 1 BB, 2 K

3/24 - 2 IP, 2 R, 1 ER, 2 H, 2 BB, 2 K

3/18 - 1 IP, 2 R, 2 ER, 2 H, 1 BB, 0 K

3/13 - 1.2 IP, 6 R, 6 ER, 5 H, 4 BB, 0 K

3/09 - 2 IP, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 H, 0 BB, 1 K

3/03 - 3 IP, 3 R, 3 ER, 4 H, 0 BB, 3 K

2/26 - 2 IP, 1 R, 1 ER, 3 H, 1 BB, 1 K

 

I'm clear that it's just spring training, and I trust his previous ML numbers, it's just that since August 9th of last season, he's been pretty bad. In his final 12.2 IP, he gave up 16 ER on 20 hits, walking 7 and striking out 9. I'm not advocating giving up on him or trading him away for nothing. He's still has plenty of value, I'm just concerned. And with others doing so well, it's not a clear cut decision as to what to do for me.