Final Bench Job Hoffpauir's to Lose

[FearTheBako]

This is where bringing back Henry would have been much better than bringing the original lemon back. Henry had some decent pop in his bat for a backup catcher.

 

Whatever really happened there? Did Hendry just decide he didn't want Hank back or what? It can't be that he wanted too much money or anything like that.

 

I have wondered this as well. I'm pretty sure they both signed for similar amounts. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think about how bad this offseason was.

[The Other 15]

so...

 

hoffpauir

miles

johnson

gathright

bako

 

right?

 

I'm hoping Gathright somehow doesn't make it, as he and Johnson are completely redundant defensively. It's not worth carrying a guy just as a pinch runner when you have a 12 man pitching staff. Also, there is no one to back up Aramis on that bench.

 

I wonder if that's why they have Jake Fox working out at 3b. I'm guessing Gathright doesn't make the team either. He brings nothing to the table that Johnson doesn't bring. Also, I'm really hoping Hill beats out Bako for the backup catcher position.

gathright brings speed. he's a lefty too, isn't he?

 

edit: also, car jumping abilities.

 

Are we working on a track team? Who cares if he has speed.

that's a pretty silly thing to say. speed has value. how much value is certainly debatable. but to dismiss it entirely is dumb.

 

Gathright has to get on base for his speed to have value. His career average OBP is .327. Not good at all. So I'm hardly dismissing speed. I'm just saying he has no right on the team.

not good enough to be an everyday player, no. his obp is a reason he doesn't play everyday. but for a bench player, is a .327 obp really that bad? i'm not trying to argue one way or the other, but it doesn't seem too bad. again, for a bench player. i don't know what league average is for players coming off the bench, or if that's even available for that matter.

 

In a completely unscientific survey of last years NL playoff teams, the average bench player with 70+ ab's had about a .315 OBP. The playoff teams had anywhere between 5 and 7 players who were primarily considered backups. They posted the following OBP's:

Cubs - Hoff 400, Pie 312, Cedeno 328, Blanco 325, Font 395, Johnson 358 = .353 OBP bench OBP

Dodgers - Meza 282 Sweeney 250, young 313, Nomar 325, Andrew 250, Dewitt 344, Berroa 304, = .295 OBP

Phils - Taguchi 283, Bruntlett 297, Coste 325, Dobbs 333, Jenkins 301 = ..308 OBP

Brewers -Rivera (62 ab's) 377, Dillon 337, Durham 369, Branyon 342,

Counsell 355 = .353 OBP.

 

Gathrights .327 OBP with variables like speed and defense make him a useful player if indeed he has figured out how to steal bases at a good clip.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This is where bringing back Henry would have been much better than bringing the original lemon back. Henry had some decent pop in his bat for a backup catcher.

 

Guess who had a higher IsoP last year between Blanco and Bako.

[Jehrico]

This is where bringing back Henry would have been much better than bringing the original lemon back. Henry had some decent pop in his bat for a backup catcher.

 

Guess who had a higher IsoP last year between Blanco and Bako.

Are you suggesting Bako is a better hitter than Blanco? And if so, are you basing that solely on last year?

I hope you're not trying to suggest what I think you're saying because of one stat from one year.

[cubsfan26]

Well if Aramis Ramirez goes down for any considerable length of time (which is possible, he's no Ripken) who else do we have in the organization that could back up even Aaron Miles? Whoever it is it's going to be ugly.

 

 

We signed Luis Rivas to a minor league contract, I assume he would be the back up infielder we could call up, if Miles is playing third. But if Ramirez misses any long period of time, I'm pretty sure the Cubs will pick up some veteran. But when Ramirez has his little day to day injuries, Miles will be at third. As long as Ramirez plays 140 plus games we should be fine. I figured Hoffpauir would make the team, Lou wasn't gonna go with a bench with no power. The way I look at is, Hoffpauir replaces Fontenot, Gathright replaces Ward, and Miles replaces Cedeno off the bench.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This is where bringing back Henry would have been much better than bringing the original lemon back. Henry had some decent pop in his bat for a backup catcher.

 

Guess who had a higher IsoP last year between Blanco and Bako.

Are you suggesting Bako is a better hitter than Blanco? And if so, are you basing that solely on last year?

I hope you're not trying to suggest what I think you're saying because of one stat from one year.

 

I'm saying that Bako has as much if not more "pop" in his bat as Blanco does.

[CubColtPacer]

This is where bringing back Henry would have been much better than bringing the original lemon back. Henry had some decent pop in his bat for a backup catcher.

 

Guess who had a higher IsoP last year between Blanco and Bako.

Are you suggesting Bako is a better hitter than Blanco? And if so, are you basing that solely on last year?

I hope you're not trying to suggest what I think you're saying because of one stat from one year.

 

I'm saying that Bako has as much if not more "pop" in his bat as Blanco does.

 

But that was a huge outlier for Bako. Looking at their last 4 seasons ISOP of 100 AB's or more (throwing out Bako's 05 and Blanco's 07):

 

Bako: .080, .020, .051, .111

Blanco: .162, .149, .153, .100

 

That's a huge difference between the two before last year, and that was a strange year for both. Bako hit as many home runs as he had in his 6 previous seasons combined, and Blanco had easily the best batting average he has ever had but more of those ended up being singles.

 

Even though last years data should be the most valued (especially with these older players) I don't see how in this case it does enough to contradict the previous data that Blanco has more power than Bako.

[Illini Iceman]

This is where bringing back Henry would have been much better than bringing the original lemon back. Henry had some decent pop in his bat for a backup catcher.

 

Guess who had a higher IsoP last year between Blanco and Bako.

Are you suggesting Bako is a better hitter than Blanco? And if so, are you basing that solely on last year?

I hope you're not trying to suggest what I think you're saying because of one stat from one year.

 

I'm saying that Bako has as much if not more "pop" in his bat as Blanco does.

 

But that was a huge outlier for Bako. Looking at their last 4 seasons ISOP of 100 AB's or more (throwing out Bako's 05 and Blanco's 07):

 

Bako: .080, .020, .051, .111

Blanco: .162, .149, .153, .100

 

That's a huge difference between the two before last year, and that was a strange year for both. Bako hit as many home runs as he had in his 6 previous seasons combined, and Blanco had easily the best batting average he has ever had but more of those ended up being singles.

 

Even though last years data should be the most valued (especially with these older players) I don't see how in this case it does enough to contradict the previous data that Blanco has more power than Bako.

 

It doesn't really matter much from a bench standpoint because Lou hardly if ever used Blanco as a PH unless it was an extra innings game and he had no other options. I seem to remember him even using Zambrano as a PH in some cases before Blanco. I would assume he will use Bako in a similar way.

 

There is some overall relevance, of course, due to the games the back up catcher will start to give Soto a rest.

[SouthSideRyan]

Color me shocked they're gonna go with 1 MIF. Though as said, it is Lou talking.

 

I'm gonna really wind up hating Joey Gathright now too.

 

This whole one backup IF for a 3B who's had leg issues, a SS who's worn down every year, and a 2B who's pretty much never played vs. lefties would be a lot more acceptable with Mark DeRosa as the one backup. Aaron Miles on the other hand, well he's the bane of my existence.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Color me shocked they're gonna go with 1 MIF. Though as said, it is Lou talking.

 

I'm gonna really wind up hating Joey Gathright now too.

 

This whole one backup IF for a 3B who's had leg issues, a SS who's worn down every year, and a 2B who's pretty much never played vs. lefties would be a lot more acceptable with Mark DeRosa as the one backup. Aaron Miles on the other hand, well he's the bane of my existence.

 

With Orlando Cabrera, Nomar, and Hudson out there for cheap, I wouldnt be surprised if we added one of them. I would definitely welcome Nomar back as a super sub. Keep Hoff and let Miles and Gathright battle it out for the last spot.

 

With Hoff, the bench may not be as good as last year, but it could be worse. Hoff and Johnson are pretty nice to have. Gathright would be to if he could get the damn bat on the ball. Miles could potentially give us the same as Theriot. As for Bako, from an offensive standpoint, it's like having a pitcher on the bench.

 

Also, with the lack of middle infield depth, I wonder if Andres Blanco will be given a serious look at ST. It could be the start of the Andy White era.

[Clem Fandango]

Was it stated somewhere that Fontenot was named the starting 2B? I was under the impression he would split time with Miles.

[cubsfan26]

Was it stated somewhere that Fontenot was named the starting 2B? I was under the impression he would split time with Miles.

 

 

It's been pretty much assumed that Fontenot will be the primary 2b. Even Crane Kenney and Randy Bush have hinted at that as well. Fontenot will play against mostly against RH pitchers, and Miles will play mostly against LH pitchers. With Miles then backing up at SS and 3rd. Fontenot will get 400 plus AB's this year, and most likely Miles will get at least 350. When you factor in him taking Cedeno spot, and getting alot of starting AB's against LH pitching at 2b.

[17 Seconds]

Standard platoon, dudes

[Bruno7481]

This is where bringing back Henry would have been much better than bringing the original lemon back. Henry had some decent pop in his bat for a backup catcher.

 

Guess who had a higher IsoP last year between Blanco and Bako.

Are you suggesting Bako is a better hitter than Blanco? And if so, are you basing that solely on last year?

I hope you're not trying to suggest what I think you're saying because of one stat from one year.

 

You won't find many teams choosing their backup catcher based on their potential OPS. They are more likely retained for their defensive abilities and Bako surpasses Hill in that regard.

[Jehrico]

This is where bringing back Henry would have been much better than bringing the original lemon back. Henry had some decent pop in his bat for a backup catcher.

 

Guess who had a higher IsoP last year between Blanco and Bako.

Are you suggesting Bako is a better hitter than Blanco? And if so, are you basing that solely on last year?

I hope you're not trying to suggest what I think you're saying because of one stat from one year.

 

You won't find many teams choosing their backup catcher based on their potential OPS. They are more likely retained for their defensive abilities and Bako surpasses Hill in that regard.

But the argument was Bako vs Blanco, not Bako vs Hill. And Blanco is arguably a better defensive backup than Bako as well.

[jersey cubs fan]

I still highly doubt this team goes into the season with both Hoff and Gathwright on the roster. Assuming Reed, Soriano, Fukudome and Bradley are all healthy enough to start the season, that would mean they'd have only one backup infielder. There's no way they willingly go into the season with no ability to replace both middle infielders, or one of them and Ramirez, in the same game. I can't see it happening. They don't have a single reliable everyday middle infielder on the team, and Ramirez is a sure thing to miss time. They will have to either eat Gathwright's contract or let Hoff go, because they will go with 2 backup infielders, someway, somehow.

[cubbinalltheway]

I still highly doubt this team goes into the season with both Hoff and Gathwright on the roster. Assuming Reed, Soriano, Fukudome and Bradley are all healthy enough to start the season, that would mean they'd have only one backup infielder. There's no way they willingly go into the season with no ability to replace both middle infielders, or one of them and Ramirez, in the same game. I can't see it happening. They don't have a single reliable everyday middle infielder on the team, and Ramirez is a sure thing to miss time. They will have to either eat Gathwright's contract or let Hoff go, because they will go with 2 backup infielders, someway, somehow.

so who's the other middle infielder?

[BigbadB]

I still highly doubt this team goes into the season with both Hoff and Gathwright on the roster. Assuming Reed, Soriano, Fukudome and Bradley are all healthy enough to start the season, that would mean they'd have only one backup infielder. There's no way they willingly go into the season with no ability to replace both middle infielders, or one of them and Ramirez, in the same game. I can't see it happening. They don't have a single reliable everyday middle infielder on the team, and Ramirez is a sure thing to miss time. They will have to either eat Gathwright's contract or let Hoff go, because they will go with 2 backup infielders, someway, somehow.

so who's the other middle infielder?

 

It will probably be someone who gets cut from their team right before the season starts. Utility infielders are a dime a dozen.

[jersey cubs fan]

I still highly doubt this team goes into the season with both Hoff and Gathwright on the roster. Assuming Reed, Soriano, Fukudome and Bradley are all healthy enough to start the season, that would mean they'd have only one backup infielder. There's no way they willingly go into the season with no ability to replace both middle infielders, or one of them and Ramirez, in the same game. I can't see it happening. They don't have a single reliable everyday middle infielder on the team, and Ramirez is a sure thing to miss time. They will have to either eat Gathwright's contract or let Hoff go, because they will go with 2 backup infielders, someway, somehow.

so who's the other middle infielder?

 

It will probably be someone who gets cut from their team right before the season starts. Utility infielders are a dime a dozen.

 

I assume they will pick up somebody from another team's scrap heap, or the remaining free agent list. I just don't see how they can justify Johnson, Gathwright, Hoffpauir, Miles and Bako/Hill. Gathwright is completely unnecessary, even though they have him a guaranteed contract.

[TheDude]

Was it stated somewhere that Fontenot was named the starting 2B? I was under the impression he would split time with Miles.

You have to be careful to distinguish between proclamations made here and what's been said by the team. Folks around here have a tendency to assume the worst, and many people here openly believe Miles will eventually be the starter (based on nothing more than gut). Belief in cyber-reality is stated as fact (as I just did - that irony isn't lost). Then it gets repeated in a few dozen threads.

 

But the organization hasn't said much other than to say that Fontenot has earned the opportunity to win the job everyday based on his play last year. I've seen quotes to the effect that Miles will be tried at 3B, SS, 2B, and the OF this spring.

 

Bottom line is Lou doesn't hand many non-fully established players an everyday job outright. He believes in the power of positive competition between teammates and sometimes his expectations carry a short-leash for results. We won't really know Miles' role until May or June probably.

[BigbadB]

Was it stated somewhere that Fontenot was named the starting 2B? I was under the impression he would split time with Miles.

You have to be careful to distinguish between proclamations made here and what's been said by the team. Folks around here have a tendency to assume the worst, and many people here openly believe Miles will eventually be the starter (based on nothing more than gut). Belief in cyber-reality is stated as fact (as I just did - that irony isn't lost). Then it gets repeated in a few dozen threads.

 

But the organization hasn't said much other than to say that Fontenot has earned the opportunity to win the job everyday based on his play last year. I've seen quotes to the effect that Miles will be tried at 3B, SS, 2B, and the OF this spring.

 

Bottom line is Lou doesn't hand many non-fully established players an everyday job outright. He believes in the power of positive competition between teammates and sometimes his expectations carry a short-leash for results. We won't really know Miles' role until May or June probably.

 

That's a pretty broad characterization of the board, and it's probably not necessary. Anyone and everyone can make their own conclusion of how the 2nd base job will be determined.

 

Fontenot has very little major league experience hitting lefties. It's a pretty safe assumption that Fontenot's bat will be in the line up against RHP, since management has expressed a need for lefty bats in the line up. However, when a LHP is on the mound, it's another safe assumption that Miles will get the call, since Lou likes to go with a RH dominant line up against LHP.

 

While this would indicate a platoon, Fontenot will be the main benefactor of playing time since there are way more RHP's than LHP's.

 

In a sense, you can call it a platoon.

 

Lou does like his veterans. If Fontenot steps up early, then the risk of losing playing time to Miles (who can hit from both sides of the plate, though not very well) will be lessened.

[SouthSideRyan]

If Miles is the only backup IF. And he plays an inning of OF in a non-emergency situation. Lou Piniella should probably be fired.

[sneakypower]

i'd wager a guess Rivas would just get called up if an IF got hurt.

[jersey cubs fan]

i'd wager a guess Rivas would just get called up if an IF got hurt.

 

That's fine and all, but given Lou's penchant for double switching, and the fact that none of the Cubs 3B, SS, and 2B are 162 game players, odds are they will see a need for a backup at more than one of those positions in the same game. Waiting to call a guy up when you need him is risky. And there's no guarantee you can even get the player from whatever minor league city he is in to whatever major league city the team is in in time for the next game.

[17 Seconds]

Was it stated somewhere that Fontenot was named the starting 2B? I was under the impression he would split time with Miles.

and many people here openly believe Miles will eventually be the starter.

 

No they don't. Who? I literally haven't seen a single person say that.

 

I think we all understand that Fontenot will, at the very least, get the ABs against RHP. Lou and Hendry have said repeatedly this offseason before they traded DeRosa that they were going to try and find a way to get him more at-bats.