Michael Wuertz traded to A's for 2 minor leaguers (p. 2)

[The Other 15]

I would say that this team is noticeably better than last season, and I'm tired of people saying we're worse. How are we worse?? Because we replaced Wood with Gregg? Um no, not any worse. Because we went from DeRosa and Edmonds to Miles and Bradley? Nope, still better there. We went from Marquis to Heilman?? To me there's another upgrade. Getting Harden, Guzman, Gaudin, and Shark for a full year over guys like Howry, Eyre, and Fox. Hoffpauir over Ward. Platoon Fukudome and Reed instead of just Fukudome all year.

 

We didn't need to make any improvements this offseason, but we did, and it will make a big difference.

 

C'mon Miguel. You're kidding yourself here. First of all, we'd be worse if we didn't make a single move, if only for the fact that we will be expected regress in quite a few areas next season. We weren't a 97 win team heading into the offseason and we certainly aren't one heading out of the offseason. Let's look branch by branch.

 

1.) Kevin Gregg to Kerry Wood

 

This is a pretty poor downgrade. We go from one of the top ten relievers in the game, who's a good health guy at this point (shove it naysayers you're wrong) and go from a guy, who if we stretched it, would barely qualify among that top fifty relievers in the game. You could make a case for him being outside the top 100 if you wanted to. In the greater scheme of things, it probably costs a few runs in high leverage situations, thanks to Gregg being in the game in the seventh and eighth with a tough jam instead of Carlos Marmol.

 

2.) DeRosa and Edmonds to Miles and Bradley

 

Well if you throw defense out the window, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that we're any better. Mark DeRosa was very very very very very productive last season and Aaron Miles is Neifi Perez without the defense. Sure Bradley's better than Edmonds, except for the fact that Bradley's probably going to get hurt and Edmonds (and the Cubs CFers in general) produced top five centerfield numbers for the Cubs last season. We got a TON of production out of center field last year. The way I see it, Fukudome goes to center, and we still get Fukudome. So we're replacing our CF production with Milton Bradley, and giving Bradley just 500 PAs instead of 650 is a wash. Signing Bradley only let's us keep the offensive production we got in center last year - not improve on it. Our overall team defense might improve in the outfield, as Edmonds was a tree in center, but so is Bradley. I am really seeing these moves as lateral at best and more expensive. I think any improvement we're going to get is going to be from resurgent Derrek Lee and Kosuke Fukudome campaigns, as both players (especially KF) played well below their potential in 2008.

 

3.) Marquis to Heilman

 

There's no improvement here. We're the same. Marquis and Heilman are interchangeable and this is another lateral move, albeit a cheaper-ish one cash wise. Heilman may end up with a slightly better RA, but the difference is made up in Marquis' elite SP bat, similar to Fat Z.

 

4.) Harden

 

It's Harden, not Hardin. He's already hurt, to expect more than we got last year is foolish.

 

5.) Gaudin blows. Shark is good unless he remembers that he doesn't get whiffs. Guzman's an unknown at this point. I do think there's a chance he's the number five by May in the current setup.

1.) Kevin Gregg to Kerry Wood

 

This is a pretty poor downgrade. We go from one of the top ten relievers in the game, who's a good health guy at this point (shove it naysayers you're wrong)

 

Hmmm, something tells me the month-long sabbatical Wood took last year was closer to resting shoulder tendinitis than healing a blister. Don't get me wrong, if that's what Wood has to do each year, I'd still be in favor of him, but that's hardly a good health guy.

 

You also mention the natural regression that will occur from 2008 but you cite the 2008 numbers when countering the 2009 additions. Seems contradicting.

Edited February 2, 2009 by The Other 15%

[cubsfan26]

A year ago people were saying

 

1.Rich Hill is a good 2-3 starting pitcher

 

2. Ryan Dempster sucks as a starter, won't make it a month in the rotation. Having him in the rotation instead of Marshall for 19 starts, hurts our rotation

 

3.Ryan Theriot will regress, and our offense at SS won't be any better.

 

4. Dumping Jacque Jones for nothing was stupid, and he's decent insurance if Pie struggles.

 

5. Soto will be a upgrade from our catcher postion in 07.

 

6. Fukudome won't be a upgrade of Floyd/Murton platoon in RF.

 

7. DeRosa could regress, we should have gotten Roberts!!

 

 

Yes some of those things were true, but many of those things were false. Most fans on this board, also thought the Cubs were a 82-88 win team as well, and didn't really improve from 07-08. So sorry If I wanna give Hendry offseason the benefit of the doubt.

[dew1679666265]

A year ago people were saying

 

1.Rich Hill is a good 2-3 starting pitcher

 

2. Ryan Dempster sucks as a starter, won't make it a month in the rotation. Having him in the rotation instead of Marshall for 19 starts, hurts our rotation

 

3.Ryan Theriot will regress, and our offense at SS won't be any better.

 

4. Dumping Jacque Jones for nothing was stupid, and he's decent insurance if Pie struggles.

 

5. Soto will be a upgrade from our catcher postion in 07.

 

6. Fukudome won't be a upgrade of Floyd/Murton platoon in RF.

 

7. DeRosa could regress, we should have gotten Roberts!!

 

 

Yes some of those things were true, but many of those things were false. Most fans on this board, also thought the Cubs were a 82-88 win team as well, and didn't really improve from 07-08. So sorry If I wanna give Hendry offseason the benefit of the doubt.

 

The bolded I don't recall being prevalent views on the board. They were the opinions of some, but I saw them far less often than the opposing viewpoints.

 

And what about those of us who disagreed with most of that? We can't complain when we see things we don't like? We're supposed to just not have an opinion on things?

 

People can complain if they like and other people can refute those complaints. I've defended Hendry for most of his entire tenure and still think he's a pretty decent GM, but I don't like the moves he's made this offseason. I hope he proves me wrong, but until that happens, I'm not going to sit back and have no opinion on things.

[The Other 15]

A year ago people were saying

 

1.Rich Hill is a good 2-3 starting pitcher

 

2. Ryan Dempster sucks as a starter, won't make it a month in the rotation. Having him in the rotation instead of Marshall for 19 starts, hurts our rotation

 

3.Ryan Theriot will regress, and our offense at SS won't be any better.

 

4. Dumping Jacque Jones for nothing was stupid, and he's decent insurance if Pie struggles.

 

5. Soto will be a upgrade from our catcher postion in 07.

 

6. Fukudome won't be a upgrade of Floyd/Murton platoon in RF.

 

7. DeRosa could regress, we should have gotten Roberts!!

 

 

Yes some of those things were true, but many of those things were false. Most fans on this board, also thought the Cubs were a 82-88 win team as well, and didn't really improve from 07-08. So sorry If I wanna give Hendry offseason the benefit of the doubt.

 

The bolded I don't recall being prevalent views on the board. They were the opinions of some, but I saw them far less often than the opposing viewpoints.

 

And what about those of us who disagreed with most of that? We can't complain when we see things we don't like? We're supposed to just not have an opinion on things?

 

People can complain if they like and other people can refute those complaints. I've defended Hendry for most of his entire tenure and still think he's a pretty decent GM, but I don't like the moves he's made this offseason. I hope he proves me wrong, but until that happens, I'm not going to sit back and have no opinion on things.

Some people choose to use their opinions as statement of facts and use it as an argument ignoring that those opinions are often wrong as people have tried to point out.

[cubsfan26]

To say we improved this offseason is really not looking at the situation realistically.

 

 

1.Offense could be as good or better. Depending on Bradley health, and how good Fontenot is. Yes Soto power could drop off a little bit, and Theriot numbers could drop off a little bit. But Soriano for more then 109 games, and someone like Lee or Fukudome having better seasons could make our line-up better.

 

2. Bullpen could be better and deeper if Heilman is in it. Heilman had Wood like numbers from 05-07. Kevin Gregg to Wood strike out/ walk wise won't be close. But results will come pretty close, and Gregg is unlikely to give up many more runs then Wood did last year. Angel Guzman also is a big wild card, who could make our bullpen really good with healthy season.

 

3. Rotation doesn't appear as deep, but with young guys like Gaudin/Marshall we can't judge that yet. Heilman if he wins the job, has the talent to be a solid 3-4 starter as well, but I'm not counting on that. Dempster could regress, but Zambrano could have a better season. Harden for 15-20 starts will also be a big bonus, since he only made 12 starts. Especially with Hill/Lieber/Gallagher having a 4.80s era in 16 starts before we got Harden.

 

 

This team has the talent to be every bit as good or better next season. Trying to compare move by move, without looking at the team as a whole is a mistake. Young players improving, or guys having better years or better health is very possible. Oh well people can continue to feel this way, we will find out once the season starts.

Edited February 2, 2009 by cubsfan26

[cubsfan26]

People can complain if they like and other people can refute those complaints. I've defended Hendry for most of his entire tenure and still think he's a pretty decent GM, but I don't like the moves he's made this offseason. I hope he proves me wrong, but until that happens, I'm not going to sit back and have no opinion on things.

 

 

Expressing your opinion about a move or the offseason is fine. But to go on and on about how much you hate this offseason is a little overboard. We all know you dislike this offseason, and we all know that many feel it was a bad offseason. But fans felt that way about alot of offseasons and were wrong, so right now lets just give Hendry the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. If the Cubs do regress alot, and these moves don't work out. I'll be right with you guys saying he did a really crappy job. I just don't understand why people can't be patient, and see what happens. They already assume these moves all suck, and the Cubs downgraded without giving them a shot. I'm just trying to remind people that they are often wrong, and there's a decent chance they could be wrong about a few things this offseason as well.

[rchap24]

I think Hendry is just making it a point to trade away all the players that NSBB overrates. Pie, Cedeno, Hill and Wuertz. Anyone else left?

 

Ha someone who actually agrees with me....Why the love for Wuertz?

[rchap24]

I would say that this team is noticeably better than last season, and I'm tired of people saying we're worse. How are we worse?? Because we replaced Wood with Gregg? Um no, not any worse. Because we went from DeRosa and Edmonds to Miles and Bradley? Nope, still better there. We went from Marquis to Heilman?? To me there's another upgrade. Getting Harden, Guzman, Gaudin, and Shark for a full year over guys like Howry, Eyre, and Fox. Hoffpauir over Ward. Platoon Fukudome and Reed instead of just Fukudome all year.

 

We didn't need to make any improvements this offseason, but we did, and it will make a big difference.

 

C'mon Miguel. You're kidding yourself here. First of all, we'd be worse if we didn't make a single move, if only for the fact that we will be expected regress in quite a few areas next season. We weren't a 97 win team heading into the offseason and we certainly aren't one heading out of the offseason. Let's look branch by branch.

 

 

1.) Kevin Gregg to Kerry Wood

 

This is a pretty poor downgrade. We go from one of the top ten relievers in the game, who's a good health guy at this point (shove it naysayers you're wrong) and go from a guy, who if we stretched it, would barely qualify among that top fifty relievers in the game. You could make a case for him being outside the top 100 if you wanted to. In the greater scheme of things, it probably costs a few runs in high leverage situations, thanks to Gregg being in the game in the seventh and eighth with a tough jam instead of Carlos Marmol.

 

2.) DeRosa and Edmonds to Miles and Bradley

 

Well if you throw defense out the window, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that we're any better. Mark DeRosa was very very very very very productive last season and Aaron Miles is Neifi Perez without the defense. Sure Bradley's better than Edmonds, except for the fact that Bradley's probably going to get hurt and Edmonds (and the Cubs CFers in general) produced top five centerfield numbers for the Cubs last season. We got a TON of production out of center field last year. The way I see it, Fukudome goes to center, and we still get Fukudome. So we're replacing our CF production with Milton Bradley, and giving Bradley just 500 PAs instead of 650 is a wash. Signing Bradley only let's us keep the offensive production we got in center last year - not improve on it. Our overall team defense might improve in the outfield, as Edmonds was a tree in center, but so is Bradley. I am really seeing these moves as lateral at best and more expensive. I think any improvement we're going to get is going to be from resurgent Derrek Lee and Kosuke Fukudome campaigns, as both players (especially KF) played well below their potential in 2008.

 

3.) Marquis to Heilman

 

There's no improvement here. We're the same. Marquis and Heilman are interchangeable and this is another lateral move, albeit a cheaper-ish one cash wise. Heilman may end up with a slightly better RA, but the difference is made up in Marquis' elite SP bat, similar to Fat Z.

 

4.) Harden

 

It's Harden, not Hardin. He's already hurt, to expect more than we got last year is foolish.

 

5.) Gaudin blows. Shark is good unless he remembers that he doesn't get whiffs. Guzman's an unknown at this point. I do think there's a chance he's the number five by May in the current setup.

1.) Kevin Gregg to Kerry Wood

 

This is a pretty poor downgrade. We go from one of the top ten relievers in the game, who's a good health guy at this point (shove it naysayers you're wrong)

 

Hmmm, something tells me the month-long sabbatical Wood took last year was closer to resting shoulder tendinitis than healing a blister. Don't get me wrong, if that's what Wood has to do each year, I'd still be in favor of him, but that's hardly a good health guy.

 

You also mention the natural regression that will occur from 2008 but you cite the 2008 numbers when countering the 2009 additions. Seems contradicting.

 

Wood was decent last year...good god stop overrating like we gave up Dennis Eckersley at his prime. He was not that good last year and it's not going to hurt us that much

Edited February 2, 2009 by rchap24

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Between Hill, Wuertz, Pie, and Cedeno, I have to think that we could have packaged some of these guys and gotten something more worthwhile.

 

Hendry probably could have had his pick of the litter 3 years ago.

 

You can't really crucify Hendry on this guys. Had he traded them then and they became good, you'd crucify him. He took a gamble that many people would have been willing to take (on Pie and Rich). Rich Hill was outstanding for a year and half and looked poised to break out last season. Michael Wuertz and Ronny Cedeno never had much value to begin with so it's irrelevant.

Remember when Rich Hill and Felix Pie were "untouchable" two seasons ago? That was pretty much exactly what Hendry said. Two years later and he trades them for worthless 25 year old prospects that won't even see the majors.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

4. Dumping Jacque Jones for nothing was stupid, and he's decent insurance if Pie struggles.

When were people saying that? I remember pretty much everyone celebrating when Jacque left town...

[TruffleShuffle]

Remember when Rich Hill and Felix Pie were "untouchable" two seasons ago? That was pretty much exactly what Hendry said. Two years later and he trades them for worthless 25 year old prospects that won't even see the majors.

 

rich hill has a lot more to do with that than jim hendry. the cubs have certainly destroyed pie's trade value though he hasn't helped himself either.

[The Other 15]

I would say that this team is noticeably better than last season, and I'm tired of people saying we're worse. How are we worse?? Because we replaced Wood with Gregg? Um no, not any worse. Because we went from DeRosa and Edmonds to Miles and Bradley? Nope, still better there. We went from Marquis to Heilman?? To me there's another upgrade. Getting Harden, Guzman, Gaudin, and Shark for a full year over guys like Howry, Eyre, and Fox. Hoffpauir over Ward. Platoon Fukudome and Reed instead of just Fukudome all year.

 

We didn't need to make any improvements this offseason, but we did, and it will make a big difference.

 

C'mon Miguel. You're kidding yourself here. First of all, we'd be worse if we didn't make a single move, if only for the fact that we will be expected regress in quite a few areas next season. We weren't a 97 win team heading into the offseason and we certainly aren't one heading out of the offseason. Let's look branch by branch.

 

 

1.) Kevin Gregg to Kerry Wood

 

This is a pretty poor downgrade. We go from one of the top ten relievers in the game, who's a good health guy at this point (shove it naysayers you're wrong) and go from a guy, who if we stretched it, would barely qualify among that top fifty relievers in the game. You could make a case for him being outside the top 100 if you wanted to. In the greater scheme of things, it probably costs a few runs in high leverage situations, thanks to Gregg being in the game in the seventh and eighth with a tough jam instead of Carlos Marmol.

 

2.) DeRosa and Edmonds to Miles and Bradley

 

Well if you throw defense out the window, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that we're any better. Mark DeRosa was very very very very very productive last season and Aaron Miles is Neifi Perez without the defense. Sure Bradley's better than Edmonds, except for the fact that Bradley's probably going to get hurt and Edmonds (and the Cubs CFers in general) produced top five centerfield numbers for the Cubs last season. We got a TON of production out of center field last year. The way I see it, Fukudome goes to center, and we still get Fukudome. So we're replacing our CF production with Milton Bradley, and giving Bradley just 500 PAs instead of 650 is a wash. Signing Bradley only let's us keep the offensive production we got in center last year - not improve on it. Our overall team defense might improve in the outfield, as Edmonds was a tree in center, but so is Bradley. I am really seeing these moves as lateral at best and more expensive. I think any improvement we're going to get is going to be from resurgent Derrek Lee and Kosuke Fukudome campaigns, as both players (especially KF) played well below their potential in 2008.

 

3.) Marquis to Heilman

 

There's no improvement here. We're the same. Marquis and Heilman are interchangeable and this is another lateral move, albeit a cheaper-ish one cash wise. Heilman may end up with a slightly better RA, but the difference is made up in Marquis' elite SP bat, similar to Fat Z.

 

4.) Harden

 

It's Harden, not Hardin. He's already hurt, to expect more than we got last year is foolish.

 

5.) Gaudin blows. Shark is good unless he remembers that he doesn't get whiffs. Guzman's an unknown at this point. I do think there's a chance he's the number five by May in the current setup.

1.) Kevin Gregg to Kerry Wood

 

This is a pretty poor downgrade. We go from one of the top ten relievers in the game, who's a good health guy at this point (shove it naysayers you're wrong)

 

Hmmm, something tells me the month-long sabbatical Wood took last year was closer to resting shoulder tendinitis than healing a blister. Don't get me wrong, if that's what Wood has to do each year, I'd still be in favor of him, but that's hardly a good health guy.

 

You also mention the natural regression that will occur from 2008 but you cite the 2008 numbers when countering the 2009 additions. Seems contradicting.

 

Wood was decent last year...good god stop overrating like we gave up Dennis Eckersley at his prime. He was not that good last year and it's not going to hurt us that much

I think you got me confused with someone else. I'm of the opinion that the difference between Gregg and Wood is minor at best. They go about different ways of getting nearly the same results.

[CubinNY]

I would say that this team is noticeably better than last season, and I'm tired of people saying we're worse. How are we worse?? Because we replaced Wood with Gregg? Um no, not any worse. Because we went from DeRosa and Edmonds to Miles and Bradley? Nope, still better there. We went from Marquis to Heilman?? To me there's another upgrade. Getting Harden, Guzman, Gaudin, and Shark for a full year over guys like Howry, Eyre, and Fox. Hoffpauir over Ward. Platoon Fukudome and Reed instead of just Fukudome all year.

 

We didn't need to make any improvements this offseason, but we did, and it will make a big difference.

 

C'mon Miguel. You're kidding yourself here. First of all, we'd be worse if we didn't make a single move, if only for the fact that we will be expected regress in quite a few areas next season. We weren't a 97 win team heading into the offseason and we certainly aren't one heading out of the offseason. Let's look branch by branch.

 

 

1.) Kevin Gregg to Kerry Wood

 

This is a pretty poor downgrade. We go from one of the top ten relievers in the game, who's a good health guy at this point (shove it naysayers you're wrong) and go from a guy, who if we stretched it, would barely qualify among that top fifty relievers in the game. You could make a case for him being outside the top 100 if you wanted to. In the greater scheme of things, it probably costs a few runs in high leverage situations, thanks to Gregg being in the game in the seventh and eighth with a tough jam instead of Carlos Marmol.

 

2.) DeRosa and Edmonds to Miles and Bradley

 

Well if you throw defense out the window, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that we're any better. Mark DeRosa was very very very very very productive last season and Aaron Miles is Neifi Perez without the defense. Sure Bradley's better than Edmonds, except for the fact that Bradley's probably going to get hurt and Edmonds (and the Cubs CFers in general) produced top five centerfield numbers for the Cubs last season. We got a TON of production out of center field last year. The way I see it, Fukudome goes to center, and we still get Fukudome. So we're replacing our CF production with Milton Bradley, and giving Bradley just 500 PAs instead of 650 is a wash. Signing Bradley only let's us keep the offensive production we got in center last year - not improve on it. Our overall team defense might improve in the outfield, as Edmonds was a tree in center, but so is Bradley. I am really seeing these moves as lateral at best and more expensive. I think any improvement we're going to get is going to be from resurgent Derrek Lee and Kosuke Fukudome campaigns, as both players (especially KF) played well below their potential in 2008.

 

3.) Marquis to Heilman

 

There's no improvement here. We're the same. Marquis and Heilman are interchangeable and this is another lateral move, albeit a cheaper-ish one cash wise. Heilman may end up with a slightly better RA, but the difference is made up in Marquis' elite SP bat, similar to Fat Z.

 

4.) Harden

 

It's Harden, not Hardin. He's already hurt, to expect more than we got last year is foolish.

 

5.) Gaudin blows. Shark is good unless he remembers that he doesn't get whiffs. Guzman's an unknown at this point. I do think there's a chance he's the number five by May in the current setup.

1.) Kevin Gregg to Kerry Wood

 

This is a pretty poor downgrade. We go from one of the top ten relievers in the game, who's a good health guy at this point (shove it naysayers you're wrong)

 

Hmmm, something tells me the month-long sabbatical Wood took last year was closer to resting shoulder tendinitis than healing a blister. Don't get me wrong, if that's what Wood has to do each year, I'd still be in favor of him, but that's hardly a good health guy.

 

You also mention the natural regression that will occur from 2008 but you cite the 2008 numbers when countering the 2009 additions. Seems contradicting.

 

Wood was decent last year...good god stop overrating like we gave up Dennis Eckersley at his prime. He was not that good last year and it's not going to hurt us that much

I think you got me confused with someone else. I'm of the opinion that the difference between Gregg and Wood is minor at best. They go about different ways of getting nearly the same results.

What? Unless you are talking about ERA (which is a piss-poor way to judge a relief pitcher) Gregg is in no way like Wood.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=304&playerid2=1793&playerid3=&position=P&page=3&type=full

[Irrelevant Dude]

We didn't need to make any improvements this offseason, but we did, and it will make a big difference.

Very true. The Cubs dominated the playoffs last year, so why would they even think about improving the team?

[Irrelevant Dude]

Hendry is the perfect example of how a big payroll can make up for a lot of deficiencies.

 

You, sir, have won an entire bag of internets.

 

A big budget has covered up a lot of Hendry's shortcomings. If he was in a mid-market he'd have been canned long ago.

 

Yes, I know the whole Aram, Nomar, Lee, Harden thing was possible BECAUSE of a big payroll, but if we had someone competent in there, I bet we could have gotten those guys and a few other complimentary pieces that would be looking mighty good right now.

 

Oh, and maybe our farm system wouldn't be the equivalent of a bunch of kindergarteners playing whiffle ball.

 

This is a very good point. Hendry has made some big mistakes that would have crippled a team with a smaller payroll, although one could argue if that was the case he wouldn't have had the money to make the mistake in the first place. I still think Hendry has done a decent job, but the worst is yet to come with some of his backloaded contracts. Either the team will get worse or the fans will have to shoulder the load of bad contracts.

[Illini Iceman]

I kind of liked Wuertz but this definitely looks like a trade that comes from Lou telling Hendry he is not comfortable with having him in the bullpen. Hendry probably figured he was better moving him now than waiting until the end of spring training when he probably just has to release him with the amount of other similar relievers that would also be getting released. I think people are kind of overrating Wuertz's trade value.

[cubsfan26]

Hendry is the perfect example of how a big payroll can make up for a lot of deficiencies.

 

You, sir, have won an entire bag of internets.

 

A big budget has covered up a lot of Hendry's shortcomings. If he was in a mid-market he'd have been canned long ago.

 

Yes, I know the whole Aram, Nomar, Lee, Harden thing was possible BECAUSE of a big payroll, but if we had someone competent in there, I bet we could have gotten those guys and a few other complimentary pieces that would be looking mighty good right now.

 

Oh, and maybe our farm system wouldn't be the equivalent of a bunch of kindergarteners playing whiffle ball.

 

This is a very good point. Hendry has made some big mistakes that would have crippled a team with a smaller payroll, although one could argue if that was the case he wouldn't have had the money to make the mistake in the first place. I still think Hendry has done a decent job, but the worst is yet to come with some of his backloaded contracts. Either the team will get worse or the fans will have to shoulder the load of bad contracts.

 

 

Teams with bigger payrolls can take more chances, on long term contracts. If Hendry had a smaller payroll, he would have to go about his business in a whole different way. So you can't say how good or bad he would be in that role. You could have said bad contracts on the Yankees and Red Sox would have crippled them over the last few years to. Plus I don't see how the worse is yet to come with the backloaded contracts. After 2010(depending on Bradley/Ramirez opt out options), we will just have Soriano, Zambrano, Dempster, and Fukudome on the books for one more year. It's unbelieveable how fans overreact

[davearm2]

What, 5 pages and still no "these prospects must be guys Kevin Towers likes"?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

What, 5 pages and still no "these prospects must be guys Kevin Towers likes"?

 

I don't think anyone likes these prospects.

[dew1679666265]

People can complain if they like and other people can refute those complaints. I've defended Hendry for most of his entire tenure and still think he's a pretty decent GM, but I don't like the moves he's made this offseason. I hope he proves me wrong, but until that happens, I'm not going to sit back and have no opinion on things.

 

 

Expressing your opinion about a move or the offseason is fine. But to go on and on about how much you hate this offseason is a little overboard. We all know you dislike this offseason, and we all know that many feel it was a bad offseason. But fans felt that way about alot of offseasons and were wrong, so right now lets just give Hendry the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. If the Cubs do regress alot, and these moves don't work out. I'll be right with you guys saying he did a really crappy job. I just don't understand why people can't be patient, and see what happens. They already assume these moves all suck, and the Cubs downgraded without giving them a shot. I'm just trying to remind people that they are often wrong, and there's a decent chance they could be wrong about a few things this offseason as well.

 

I don't know, I just can't go through an offseason without having an opinion and expressing it. I have stats available to me with which I can judge a players ability and I use those to determine whether I like a move a GM has made or not - I may be wrong, but just because I might be wrong doesn't mean I'm going to mindlessly accept anything and everything the GM does.

 

Like I said, I hope Hendry and the players prove me wrong and Aaron Miles is an all-star and Milton Bradley never misses a game as a Cub, but the stats they have compiled over their careers tell me that's very unlikely.

[dew1679666265]

A year ago people were saying

 

1.Rich Hill is a good 2-3 starting pitcher

 

2. Ryan Dempster sucks as a starter, won't make it a month in the rotation. Having him in the rotation instead of Marshall for 19 starts, hurts our rotation

 

3.Ryan Theriot will regress, and our offense at SS won't be any better.

 

4. Dumping Jacque Jones for nothing was stupid, and he's decent insurance if Pie struggles.

 

5. Soto will be a upgrade from our catcher postion in 07.

 

6. Fukudome won't be a upgrade of Floyd/Murton platoon in RF.

 

7. DeRosa could regress, we should have gotten Roberts!!

 

 

Yes some of those things were true, but many of those things were false. Most fans on this board, also thought the Cubs were a 82-88 win team as well, and didn't really improve from 07-08. So sorry If I wanna give Hendry offseason the benefit of the doubt.

 

The bolded I don't recall being prevalent views on the board. They were the opinions of some, but I saw them far less often than the opposing viewpoints.

 

And what about those of us who disagreed with most of that? We can't complain when we see things we don't like? We're supposed to just not have an opinion on things?

 

People can complain if they like and other people can refute those complaints. I've defended Hendry for most of his entire tenure and still think he's a pretty decent GM, but I don't like the moves he's made this offseason. I hope he proves me wrong, but until that happens, I'm not going to sit back and have no opinion on things.

Some people choose to use their opinions as statement of facts and use it as an argument ignoring that those opinions are often wrong as people have tried to point out.

 

I don't understand the dislike of posting opinions and arguing those opinions on a message board about Cubs baseball. What do we discuss if not our feelings on the Cubs roster as currently constructed?

[SouthSideRyan]

We didn't need to make any improvements this offseason, but we did, and it will make a big difference.

Very true. The Cubs dominated the playoffs last year, so why would they even think about improving the team?

 

Perhaps they should've actually improved the team if that was their thinking.

[Derwood]

if Wuertz is anything like the last batch of players we sent to Oakland, he'll have a real nice apartment in Sacramento

[Irrelevant Dude]

After 2010(depending on Bradley/Ramirez opt out options), we will just have Soriano, Zambrano, Dempster, and Fukudome on the books for one more year. It's unbelieveable how fans overreact

And that will be $63 million tied up in 4 players... 2 above average starting pitchers, an unproductive outfielder, and another outfielder on the downside of his career. If neither Ramirez nor Bradley opt out of their contracts, that puts the Cubs at around $90 million for a total of 6 players. Either way, that's a very significant portion of the payroll for a small number of non-superstar players. How is it overreacting to worry about those contracts?

[nilodnayr]

if Wuertz is anything like the last batch of players we sent to Oakland, he'll have a real nice apartment in Sacramento

 

He'll never pass through waivers, duh