2009 NFL Draft Thread

[Handlebar McSkullet]

He was the 2nd running back taken, caddy was still on the board. And you don't see any reason he can't pick well in the top half?

 

Chris Williams (granted he has time but the neck injury really scares me), Cedric Benson, Tommie Harris, Michael Haynes

 

All 4 of those players were drafted in the top half of the first round. What tells you that he can pick a good player in the top half?

 

That's stupid. One of the 4 is a good player, who was the best at his position before getting hurt. One has played about 10 NFL downs. Also, 2 of those picks were BPA at a position of need. Even if Williams is horrible, those 4 picks have nothing to do with his ability to pick a good player in the top 10 this year. Even still, the Bears could trade up to the #1 pick, takes the consensus best pick, and if he turns out to bust, it doesn't mean the Bears don't pick well. It just means that player sucked. Granted picking in the middle of the round like they have requires more skill, but of the current regimes picks only Haynes was a real reach of the top of my head, and I'm not even 100% sure he wasn't rated that high.

 

Haynes was rated pretty high (15th on Kiper's List)

[Guest]

Beanie in: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=3819447

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Angelo has been particularly questionable at the top of the draft, the first 3 picks. His misses: Marc Columbo (1st round 2002), Roosevelt Williams (3rd round 2002), Terrence Metcalf (3rd round 2002), Michael Haynes (1st round 2003), Rex Grossman (1st round 2003), Tank Johnson (2nd round 2004), Cedric Benson (1st round 2005), Mark Bradley (2nd round 2005), Dan Bazuin (2nd round 2007), Michael Okwo (3rd round 2007). Of Angelo’s 7 first round draft picks since 2002, he has completely whiffed on 4 (Columbo, Haynes, Grossman, and Benson), hit it big with one (Tommie Harris) and jury still out on two (Greg Olsen and Chris Williams).

 

One position that has been completely neglected is offensive line. After picking T Marc Columbo #1 in 2002, Angelo doesn’t even sniff a top OL pick until 2008 with #1 pick T Chris Williams. In fact, in 7 total drafts, Angelo drafted a total of 8 offensive lineman (2 in the 1st round, one in the 3rd round, one in the 6th round and 4 in the 7th round) Of those lineman, only 3 are still with the Bears. The injury to Williams is the icing on the sketchy cake for Angelo’s lack of high round draft pick success.

 

Hits in the top 3 rounds include: Charles Tillman (2nd round 2003), Lance Briggs (3rd round 2003), Tommy Harris (1st round 2004), Bernard Berrian (3rd round 2004), Devin Hester (2nd Round 2006) and arguably Greg Olsen (1st round 2007), twice as many misses than hits in the first three rounds. Of all Angelo picks, only 4 made it to the Pro Bowl (Hester, Harris, Briggs, and Vasher).

 

link

[shnsajax]

Where is Vontae Davis going? Round wise.

Davis is a first round draft pick, probably in the top 15.

Wow, really?

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php

#15 to the Pats in this one. Aka, you'll see him in a Pro Bowl in two years.

Nice, where would Benn be if he were elligible to come out?

 

I think he'll be top 15 next year. This year, I'd take him after Crabtree but before Maclin.

Kinda what I figured. Crabtree is a stud.

 

I have a hard time believing that Bradford will fall to #9 overall.

[cubweiser03]

The only reason Mays wouldn't stick at safety is if a team is really desperate for a LB and moves him out of necessity. He won't grow his way out of the position.

 

If Mays doesn't fall to 18, which he won't, and the Bears don't trade up, which they shouldn't....what do you guys think about Rashad Johnson from Alabama? He's only abuot 180-185, but is a great pass defender. He may also be able to play some corner. I like him a lot, and because of size he may last til the 3rd. But he reminds me of a smaller Danieal Manning, with actual football instincts though and not a raw athlete.

 

I like Johnson too for the reasons you state.

 

Mays has all the tools. I havent seen him much in coverage. Do you guys remember all the hype about Roy Williams coming out? 6'0 225 He was the guy that had great versatility with his size and speed, a 'hybred' safety, change the position blah blah etc. Well hes not the greatest in pass defense. Williams isnt as fast as Mays but like its been discussed earlier, straightline speed isnt everything. Williams went 8th.

[sneakypower]

I have a hard time believing that Bradford will fall to #9 overall.

that mock's about a month old, but Mayhew's telegraphing that he wants to take Bradford #1 (and Garrett as HC to develop him)

[Handlebar McSkullet]

The only reason Mays wouldn't stick at safety is if a team is really desperate for a LB and moves him out of necessity. He won't grow his way out of the position.

 

If Mays doesn't fall to 18, which he won't, and the Bears don't trade up, which they shouldn't....what do you guys think about Rashad Johnson from Alabama? He's only abuot 180-185, but is a great pass defender. He may also be able to play some corner. I like him a lot, and because of size he may last til the 3rd. But he reminds me of a smaller Danieal Manning, with actual football instincts though and not a raw athlete.

 

I like Johnson too for the reasons you state.

 

Mays has all the tools. I havent seen him much in coverage. Do you guys remember all the hype about Roy Williams coming out? 6'0 225 He was the guy that had great versatility with his size and speed, a 'hybred' safety, change the position blah blah etc. Well hes not the greatest in pass defense. Williams isnt as fast as Mays but like its been discussed earlier, straightline speed isnt everything. Williams went 8th.

 

Isnt Mays just another step in the always evolving: bigger, strong, faster line of players that come up every decade.

[apete6]

Angelo has been particularly questionable at the top of the draft, the first 3 picks. His misses: Marc Columbo (1st round 2002), Roosevelt Williams (3rd round 2002), Terrence Metcalf (3rd round 2002), Michael Haynes (1st round 2003), Rex Grossman (1st round 2003), Tank Johnson (2nd round 2004), Cedric Benson (1st round 2005), Mark Bradley (2nd round 2005), Dan Bazuin (2nd round 2007), Michael Okwo (3rd round 2007). Of Angelo’s 7 first round draft picks since 2002, he has completely whiffed on 4 (Columbo, Haynes, Grossman, and Benson), hit it big with one (Tommie Harris) and jury still out on two (Greg Olsen and Chris Williams).

link

 

Pretty good analysis, but I wouldn't exactly call Tank Johnson a "miss." He had some off the field issues, but he's performed pretty darn well when he plays. Same with Marc Columbo, probably not worthy of the first round, but since he's been healthy he's been serviceable for the Cowboys. Even Grossman and Benson probably will end up being 6-10 year professionals. Not exactly what you want out of your 1st round picks, but not complete spiraling busts like Akili Smith or Cade McNown or Curtis Enis...unless Benson's 2nd half w/Cincy was just a mirage.

 

Bauzin, Williams, Metcalf, and Okwo are indefensible picks. Complete reaches that can't even get signed to another NFL team. Garrett Wolfe could eventually find his way onto this list, but after seeing what Darren Sproles did last week, I find it hard to believe that an offensive coordinator somewhere won't try and install a package for him--I wish it was Turner.

 

Michael Haynes is one of the weirder whiffs in recent memory. He dominated the Big 10 his last season and never even had glimpses of being decent in the NFL. Apparently he wasn't really "into" football and was very smart in the classroom.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

when I was poking around I found this quote, which I thought was pretty interesting.

 

"Cedric has always been lazy,'' Haynes said. ''Cedric was lazy when he first got to Chicago, and I guarantee you he is lazy now. It's the work ethic that a lot of teammates didn't like. When I was there and things didn't work out, I always showed up and I always worked hard. I tried really hard, and I never complained.''

 

Haynes also says he objects to being compared to Benson. Haynes says that unlike Benson, he hasn't gotten into off-field trouble, and that unlike Benson, his own failure to make it in the NFL isn't a result of laziness.

link

 

And Cedric and Rex were busts. They were first round picks that weren't able to get it done when they were starting. Both Tank and Marc would have to be considered busts in regards to their time with the Bears as well. The Bears got very little playing time from Marc and while Tank did play well he was only with the team for 1-2 years. That has to be considered a failure out of what was almost a first round pick.

[Soul]

I have a hard time believing that Bradford will fall to #9 overall.

that mock's about a month old, but Mayhew's telegraphing that he wants to take Bradford #1 (and Garrett as HC to develop him)

Still feel Bradford wouldn't drop after tonight? Not looking so spectacular against an actual defense.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

when I was poking around I found this quote, which I thought was pretty interesting.

 

"Cedric has always been lazy,'' Haynes said. ''Cedric was lazy when he first got to Chicago, and I guarantee you he is lazy now. It's the work ethic that a lot of teammates didn't like. When I was there and things didn't work out, I always showed up and I always worked hard. I tried really hard, and I never complained.''

 

Haynes also says he objects to being compared to Benson. Haynes says that unlike Benson, he hasn't gotten into off-field trouble, and that unlike Benson, his own failure to make it in the NFL isn't a result of laziness.

link

 

And Cedric and Rex were busts. They were first round picks that weren't able to get it done when they were starting. Both Tank and Marc would have to be considered busts in regards to their time with the Bears as well. The Bears got very little playing time from Marc and while Tank did play well he was only with the team for 1-2 years. That has to be considered a failure out of what was almost a first round pick.

 

Rex wasnt a bust. He wasnt a great pick but when I think of busts I think Kingler, Leaf, McNown.. Not someone who has a 19-11 record starting, and is one of only 2 bears qb's ever to start all 16 games, and lead them to a super bowl. With that said okwo and buizine were just awful picks and have hurt the team badly.

[sneakypower]

I have a hard time believing that Bradford will fall to #9 overall.

that mock's about a month old, but Mayhew's telegraphing that he wants to take Bradford #1 (and Garrett as HC to develop him)

Still feel Bradford wouldn't drop after tonight? Not looking so spectacular against an actual defense.

well we're not really dealing with a football mastermind, it's the guy who assisted the worst GM in sports history for 8 years

 

you'd also think an offensive coordinator who ran a very disappointing offense the Ravens called "predictable" and "simple" despite being loaded with talent like TO, Romo, Marion the Barberian and Witten would see his stock slip, too

Edited January 9, 2009 by sneakypower

[Handlebar McSkullet]

I have a hard time believing that Bradford will fall to #9 overall.

that mock's about a month old, but Mayhew's telegraphing that he wants to take Bradford #1 (and Garrett as HC to develop him)

Still feel Bradford wouldn't drop after tonight? Not looking so spectacular against an actual defense.

well we're not really dealing with football masterminds, it's the guy who assisted the worst GM in sports history for 8 years

 

You gotta love that Roy Williams trade though.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

when I was poking around I found this quote, which I thought was pretty interesting.

 

"Cedric has always been lazy,'' Haynes said. ''Cedric was lazy when he first got to Chicago, and I guarantee you he is lazy now. It's the work ethic that a lot of teammates didn't like. When I was there and things didn't work out, I always showed up and I always worked hard. I tried really hard, and I never complained.''

 

Haynes also says he objects to being compared to Benson. Haynes says that unlike Benson, he hasn't gotten into off-field trouble, and that unlike Benson, his own failure to make it in the NFL isn't a result of laziness.

link

 

And Cedric and Rex were busts. They were first round picks that weren't able to get it done when they were starting. Both Tank and Marc would have to be considered busts in regards to their time with the Bears as well. The Bears got very little playing time from Marc and while Tank did play well he was only with the team for 1-2 years. That has to be considered a failure out of what was almost a first round pick.

 

Rex wasnt a bust. He wasnt a great pick but when I think of busts I think Kingler, Leaf, McNown.. Not someone who has a 19-11 record starting, and is one of only 2 bears qb's ever to start all 16 games, and lead them to a super bowl. With that said okwo and buizine were just awful picks and have hurt the team badly.

I consider Rex a bust. The fact that the team did well while he was playing had less to do with him than the fact that we had a really good defense. When I look at Rex I see a good backup quarterback that is able to come in and finish off a game if your starter gets injured. All you have to do to mess him up is blitz right up the middle and he runs like a little girl flailing his arms. A first round pick that turns out to be a backup qb is a bust.

Edited January 9, 2009 by burnt out cubbie fan

[sneakypower]

for sure, but i attribute that to Jerry Jones desperation more than anything else

[Guest]

McCoy says he's coming back to Pitt. I'm surprised.

 

He changed his mind.

 

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/01/lesean_mccoy_will_declare_for.html

[rchap24]

McCoy says he's coming back to Pitt. I'm surprised.

 

He changed his mind.

 

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/01/lesean_mccoy_will_declare_for.html

 

Good...He has a better shot going pro, then risking getting hurt and coming back for another season

[Tyrant]

I have a hard time believing that Bradford will fall to #9 overall.

that mock's about a month old, but Mayhew's telegraphing that he wants to take Bradford #1 (and Garrett as HC to develop him)

Still feel Bradford wouldn't drop after tonight? Not looking so spectacular against an actual defense.

 

Bradford should really stick around after tonight. Even if OU won, he still should have stayed another year. I remember seeing from Football Outsiders that one of the best predictors of a QB's success in the NFL is the number of snaps he plays in college. Bradford hasn't been around that long, and I think the success rate for QBs coming out at that stage is pretty low.

[rchap24]

I have a hard time believing that Bradford will fall to #9 overall.

that mock's about a month old, but Mayhew's telegraphing that he wants to take Bradford #1 (and Garrett as HC to develop him)

Still feel Bradford wouldn't drop after tonight? Not looking so spectacular against an actual defense.

 

Bradford should really stick around after tonight. Even if OU won, he still should have stayed another year. I remember seeing from Football Outsiders that one of the best predictors of a QB's success in the NFL is the number of snaps he plays in college. Bradford hasn't been around that long, and I think the success rate for QBs coming out at that stage is pretty low.

 

He's got a great arm, but yeah he should have stuck around for another year regardless if they lost

[da bears]

Tim Tebow is now in the JJ Redick category for me. I cannot wait til he gets to the league and fails. He may be a good person, but I dont care. I will thoroughly enjoy watching him become a nobody in the NFL.

[rchap24]

Tim Tebow is now in the JJ Redick category for me. I cannot wait til he gets to the league and fails. He may be a good person, but I dont care. I will thoroughly enjoy watching him become a nobody in the NFL.

 

See I think he'll fail, but Redick is a dick and is complaining about playing time by the way. I don't think Tebow will do well in the pros, but he's a nice guy so I'd feel worse for him than JJ Redick failing....But I understand your take on it

[TruffleShuffle]

Tim Tebow is now in the JJ Redick category for me. I cannot wait til he gets to the league and fails. He may be a good person, but I dont care. I will thoroughly enjoy watching him become a nobody in the NFL.

 

See I think he'll fail, but Redick is a dick and is complaining about playing time by the way. I don't think Tebow will do well in the pros, but he's a nice guy so I'd feel worse for him than JJ Redick failing....But I understand your take on it

 

nice guys don't taunt

[jersey cubs fan]

Tim Tebow is now in the JJ Redick category for me. I cannot wait til he gets to the league and fails. He may be a good person, but I dont care. I will thoroughly enjoy watching him become a nobody in the NFL.

 

See I think he'll fail, but Redick is a dick and is complaining about playing time by the way. I don't think Tebow will do well in the pros, but he's a nice guy so I'd feel worse for him than JJ Redick failing....But I understand your take on it

 

What makes you think Tim Tebow is a nice guy? He comes from the Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Jake Delhomme school of completely bitchy quarterbacks, only without the requisite ability to throw footballs.

[TruffleShuffle]

Tim Tebow is now in the JJ Redick category for me. I cannot wait til he gets to the league and fails. He may be a good person, but I dont care. I will thoroughly enjoy watching him become a nobody in the NFL.

 

See I think he'll fail, but Redick is a dick and is complaining about playing time by the way. I don't think Tebow will do well in the pros, but he's a nice guy so I'd feel worse for him than JJ Redick failing....But I understand your take on it

 

What makes you think Tim Tebow is a nice guy? He comes from the Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Jake Delhomme school of completely bitchy quarterbacks, only without the requisite ability to throw footballs.

 

i'm pretty sure that if tim tebow didn't wear eye black with bible passages written on it, nobody would think he was a nice guy.

[rchap24]

Tim Tebow is now in the JJ Redick category for me. I cannot wait til he gets to the league and fails. He may be a good person, but I dont care. I will thoroughly enjoy watching him become a nobody in the NFL.

 

See I think he'll fail, but Redick is a dick and is complaining about playing time by the way. I don't think Tebow will do well in the pros, but he's a nice guy so I'd feel worse for him than JJ Redick failing....But I understand your take on it

 

What makes you think Tim Tebow is a nice guy? He comes from the Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Jake Delhomme school of completely bitchy quarterbacks, only without the requisite ability to throw footballs.

 

I meant off the field...Reddick just seems like a douche