Re: Peavy High on Cubs Wish List

[Sever82]

Just like that huh, why do people think deals are so easy to work? Look i can do the same too, how about we trade DLee, Vitter, Cedeno, Marshall, Pie, Atkins

 

Orioles get Pie, Dlee, atkins

Padres get: Vitters, Cedeno, Marshall, and olson

Cubs get: Peavy, Roberts.

 

done deal.

[rchap24]

Yeah, but the article states that the Mets passed on that deal, cuz they want to include Heilman in other trades. That would be an amazing trade for us though, but Heilman wants to be a starter. I could only imagine that we only wanted Heilman so we could package him over for Peavy. Trade Marquis AND Ascanio for Heilman (mets need RP), trade Pie for Olson.

 

Vitters, Heilman, Olson, and Cedeno for Peavy.

 

There ya go, done deal, why do GM's think this is so difficult??? And we keep Marshall to be the 6th starter ONCE Harden, Peavy, or Z go down.

 

Is this Olson from the Marlin's? who was just traded to the Nationals?

[BigbadB]

Yeah, but the article states that the Mets passed on that deal, cuz they want to include Heilman in other trades. That would be an amazing trade for us though, but Heilman wants to be a starter. I could only imagine that we only wanted Heilman so we could package him over for Peavy. Trade Marquis AND Ascanio for Heilman (mets need RP), trade Pie for Olson.

 

Vitters, Heilman, Olson, and Cedeno for Peavy.

 

There ya go, done deal, why do GM's think this is so difficult??? And we keep Marshall to be the 6th starter ONCE Harden, Peavy, or Z go down.

 

Is this Olson from the Marlin's? who was just traded to the Nationals?

 

No. He's talking about Garrett Olson from Baltimore.

[rchap24]

Yeah, but the article states that the Mets passed on that deal, cuz they want to include Heilman in other trades. That would be an amazing trade for us though, but Heilman wants to be a starter. I could only imagine that we only wanted Heilman so we could package him over for Peavy. Trade Marquis AND Ascanio for Heilman (mets need RP), trade Pie for Olson.

 

Vitters, Heilman, Olson, and Cedeno for Peavy.

 

There ya go, done deal, why do GM's think this is so difficult??? And we keep Marshall to be the 6th starter ONCE Harden, Peavy, or Z go down.

 

Is this Olson from the Marlin's? who was just traded to the Nationals?

 

No. He's talking about Garrett Olson from Baltimore.

 

Oh....By the way and I'm sure there's not, but would there be any possible way that we could somehow acquire Roberts and Peavy in the three way deal? What do you think We'd have to give up cause I know its likely?

[RyneDawson]

What's with all this Roberts talk again?? We didn't really need him last year, and we certainly don't need him this year. DeRosa put up better numbers than Roberts, and I'm sure Fontenot can do the same. We don't need a 2B. We have a ton of them. Lets just focus on Peavy or a RF (whom is not a 2B).

[UMFan83]

What's with all this Roberts talk again?? We didn't really need him last year, and we certainly don't need him this year. DeRosa put up better numbers than Roberts, and I'm sure Fontenot can do the same. We don't need a 2B. We have a ton of them. Lets just focus on Peavy or a RF (whom is not a 2B).

 

VORP:

Roberts - 47.8

DeRosa - 36.2

 

EqA:

Roberts - .295

DeRosa - .291

 

Now these measures are not perfect (for one defensive value isn't measured) but its not clear at all that DeRosa had a better year than Roberts. FWIW, Roberts had a higher VORP than anyone on the Cubs last year.

[BigbadB]

Yeah, but the article states that the Mets passed on that deal, cuz they want to include Heilman in other trades. That would be an amazing trade for us though, but Heilman wants to be a starter. I could only imagine that we only wanted Heilman so we could package him over for Peavy. Trade Marquis AND Ascanio for Heilman (mets need RP), trade Pie for Olson.

 

Vitters, Heilman, Olson, and Cedeno for Peavy.

 

There ya go, done deal, why do GM's think this is so difficult??? And we keep Marshall to be the 6th starter ONCE Harden, Peavy, or Z go down.

 

Is this Olson from the Marlin's? who was just traded to the Nationals?

 

No. He's talking about Garrett Olson from Baltimore.

 

Oh....By the way and I'm sure there's not, but would there be any possible way that we could somehow acquire Roberts and Peavy in the three way deal? What do you think We'd have to give up cause I know its likely?

 

We don't have enough talent to land Peavy, let alone adding Roberts to the discussion.

[davearm2]

What's with all this Roberts talk again?? We didn't really need him last year, and we certainly don't need him this year. DeRosa put up better numbers than Roberts, and I'm sure Fontenot can do the same. We don't need a 2B. We have a ton of them. Lets just focus on Peavy or a RF (whom is not a 2B).

 

VORP:

Roberts - 47.8

DeRosa - 36.2

 

EqA:

Roberts - .295

DeRosa - .291

 

Now these measures are not perfect (for one defensive value isn't measured) but its not clear at all that DeRosa had a better year than Roberts. FWIW, Roberts had a higher VORP than anyone on the Cubs last year.

Some other pertinent stats:

 

Roberts -- free agent after 2009

DeRosa -- free agent after 2009

 

See where I'm headed here?

[rchap24]

What's with all this Roberts talk again?? We didn't really need him last year, and we certainly don't need him this year. DeRosa put up better numbers than Roberts, and I'm sure Fontenot can do the same. We don't need a 2B. We have a ton of them. Lets just focus on Peavy or a RF (whom is not a 2B).

 

VORP:

Roberts - 47.8

DeRosa - 36.2

 

EqA:

Roberts - .295

DeRosa - .291

 

Now these measures are not perfect (for one defensive value isn't measured) but its not clear at all that DeRosa had a better year than Roberts. FWIW, Roberts had a higher VORP than anyone on the Cubs last year.

Some other pertinent stats:

 

Roberts -- free agent after 2009

DeRosa -- free agent after 2009

 

See where I'm headed here?

 

I'd rather have the younger 2nd baseman that we could sign long term....All that aside though I know we'd have no shot at getting both of them. Just wanted to here a proposal from someone

[BigbadB]

What's with all this Roberts talk again?? We didn't really need him last year, and we certainly don't need him this year. DeRosa put up better numbers than Roberts, and I'm sure Fontenot can do the same. We don't need a 2B. We have a ton of them. Lets just focus on Peavy or a RF (whom is not a 2B).

 

VORP:

Roberts - 47.8

DeRosa - 36.2

 

EqA:

Roberts - .295

DeRosa - .291

 

Now these measures are not perfect (for one defensive value isn't measured) but its not clear at all that DeRosa had a better year than Roberts. FWIW, Roberts had a higher VORP than anyone on the Cubs last year.

Some other pertinent stats:

 

Roberts -- free agent after 2009

DeRosa -- free agent after 2009

 

See where I'm headed here?

 

I'd rather have the younger 2nd baseman that we could sign long term....All that aside though I know we'd have no shot at getting both of them. Just wanted to here a proposal from someone

 

Any proposal for both Roberts and Peavy would probably need to start with Geovany Soto. For the difference in DeRosa and Roberts, I think I'd be happy to just hang on to Soto and let Roberts rot in Baltimore.

[BigbadB]

What's with all this Roberts talk again?? We didn't really need him last year, and we certainly don't need him this year. DeRosa put up better numbers than Roberts, and I'm sure Fontenot can do the same. We don't need a 2B. We have a ton of them. Lets just focus on Peavy or a RF (whom is not a 2B).

 

VORP:

Roberts - 47.8

DeRosa - 36.2

 

EqA:

Roberts - .295

DeRosa - .291

 

Now these measures are not perfect (for one defensive value isn't measured) but its not clear at all that DeRosa had a better year than Roberts. FWIW, Roberts had a higher VORP than anyone on the Cubs last year.

Some other pertinent stats:

 

Roberts -- free agent after 2009

DeRosa -- free agent after 2009

 

See where I'm headed here?

 

Here's some more

 

Cubs 2b production in 2008: .300 .378 .458 .836

Brian Roberts stats in 2008: .296 .378 .450 .828

 

Also note that Ronny Cedeno's 117 PA at 2b are severely dragging Cubs 2b production down.

[Mephistopheles]

Do we really think that Mark DeRosa is going to hit like he did last year? Or even remotely close?

[davearm2]

What's with all this Roberts talk again?? We didn't really need him last year, and we certainly don't need him this year. DeRosa put up better numbers than Roberts, and I'm sure Fontenot can do the same. We don't need a 2B. We have a ton of them. Lets just focus on Peavy or a RF (whom is not a 2B).

 

VORP:

Roberts - 47.8

DeRosa - 36.2

 

EqA:

Roberts - .295

DeRosa - .291

 

Now these measures are not perfect (for one defensive value isn't measured) but its not clear at all that DeRosa had a better year than Roberts. FWIW, Roberts had a higher VORP than anyone on the Cubs last year.

Some other pertinent stats:

 

Roberts -- free agent after 2009

DeRosa -- free agent after 2009

 

See where I'm headed here?

 

I'd rather have the younger 2nd baseman that we could sign long term....All that aside though I know we'd have no shot at getting both of them. Just wanted to here a proposal from someone

So you sign the younger 2nd baseman longterm once he becomes a free agent (and the only slightly less productive older 2nd baseman's contract is up), is the point.

 

As long as Roberts doesn't extend before this time next year, the timing is perfect.

Edited December 5, 2008 by davearm2

[rchap24]

What's with all this Roberts talk again?? We didn't really need him last year, and we certainly don't need him this year. DeRosa put up better numbers than Roberts, and I'm sure Fontenot can do the same. We don't need a 2B. We have a ton of them. Lets just focus on Peavy or a RF (whom is not a 2B).

 

VORP:

Roberts - 47.8

DeRosa - 36.2

 

EqA:

Roberts - .295

DeRosa - .291

 

Now these measures are not perfect (for one defensive value isn't measured) but its not clear at all that DeRosa had a better year than Roberts. FWIW, Roberts had a higher VORP than anyone on the Cubs last year.

Some other pertinent stats:

 

Roberts -- free agent after 2009

DeRosa -- free agent after 2009

 

See where I'm headed here?

 

I'd rather have the younger 2nd baseman that we could sign long term....All that aside though I know we'd have no shot at getting both of them. Just wanted to here a proposal from someone

 

Any proposal for both Roberts and Peavy would probably need to start with Geovany Soto. For the difference in DeRosa and Roberts, I think I'd be happy to just hang on to Soto and let Roberts rot in Baltimore.

 

Ha agreed...Just wanted to here your guys opinions

[CUBZ99]

Do we really think that Mark DeRosa is going to hit like he did last year? Or even remotely close?

 

DeRosa has put together three pretty solid seasons, with remarkable consistency. Last year his HR's were up a bit, but his other numbers have been pretty steady.

[Soul]

Do we really think that Mark DeRosa is going to hit like he did last year? Or even remotely close?

 

DeRosa has put together three pretty solid seasons, with remarkable consistency. Last year his HR's were up a bit, but his other numbers have been pretty steady.

 

His HRs were nearly double his next best season. He's also coming off his best OPS+ season to date. So who knows, Mark was supposed to be coming off a career year when he left Texas, but he's shown that just wasn't true.

[Mephistopheles]

I'd say that Khalil Greene is more likely to hit 20 home runs than Mark DeRosa.

[Sever82]

We do need Roberts this year or a roberts type of player. Its not whether Roberts is a better 2b than Derosa, its the fact that we can put roberts at lead off because we dont have a lead off hitter. Theriot isn't one, Soriano isn't one, Fukudome isn't one and neither is fontenot. Roberts is use to being a lead off hitter. As far as having enough talent for peavy, we sure do, the only reason a deal hasn't been done is because we dont have the young pitching the padres need, if they need young hitting than we'd be good. The thing that sucks with roberts is that he belongs to the orioles and the orioles with MacPhail are pretty impossible to trade with at a reasonable price.

 

All the talk is that if Roberts doesn't sign an extension by the winter meetings than he's going to be traded. Compared to last year though, there are more teams interested in roberts. Can roberts be worked in the peavy deal if the orioles are the third team? hmmm maybe, but we'd have to give up a player like Dlee or startine player period, if we were to be able to land roberts. In my opinion hendry will either land roberts or peavy this offseason as far as trading goes. If i was hendry i would do everything possible to dumb marquis salary and then trade for peavy and maybe sign furcal. I just hope the ownership situation gets resolved soon and the future owners give the approval to hendry to go out and sign a player like furca, as a left handed option i'd rather sign furcal than abreau because of the lead off factor. If you sign abreau, you're still stuck without a leadoff hitter. People are giving up on fukudome too quick.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'd say Soriano's pretty used to being a leadoff hitter. Personally, I'd rather have him there than Roberts, and it's no contest when we have to give up the world to get Roberts.

[Sever82]

Really? You prefer Soriano at Lead Off? Wow

[Clem Fandango]

We do need Roberts this year or a roberts type of player. Its not whether Roberts is a better 2b than Derosa, its the fact that we can put roberts at lead off because we dont have a lead off hitter.

 

Ooooohhhhh, you just committed one of the cardinal sins around here. If others belittle your statement about the lead off hitter, don't let it get you down, roll with the punches, and keep on keeping on or what have you.

 

But seriously, discussing the importance of "a real lead off hitter" around here will not win you many brownie points, so just giving you a heads up in case you get ridiculed for bringing up the subject and are confused as to why, since you're new here.

[BigbadB]

Really? You prefer Soriano at Lead Off? Wow

 

So do I. Please feel free to explain how Brian Roberts produces more runs than Alfonso Soriano does. I'll be happy to show you how you are wrong once you are done with this assignment.

 

And just for giggles, note that in 155 games, a completely healthy Brian Roberts either scored a run or drove in a run 164 times in 2008 while Alfonso Soriano either scored a run or drove in a run 151 times in 109 games, while not being completely healthy all year.

[davearm2]

Really? You prefer Soriano at Lead Off? Wow

If the choice is either one or the other, there's a strong (IMO) case to be made for Soriano over Roberts.

 

I don't think anyone would debate the point that the Cubs would be better with both, although at that point it becomes a cost/benefit issue. There I'd argue that the smart choice would be to wait a year for the cost (in players) to fall from astronomical to a single second-round draft pick, while also avoiding the redundancy problem that you'd have with both Roberts and DeRosa on the same roster.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Really? You prefer Soriano at Lead Off? Wow

 

Somebody has to say it...

 

Leadoff isn't a position.

[BigbadB]

Really? You prefer Soriano at Lead Off? Wow

If the choice is either one or the other, there's a strong (IMO) case to be made for Soriano over Roberts.

 

I don't think anyone would debate the point that the Cubs would be better with both, although at that point it becomes a cost/benefit issue. There I'd argue that the smart choice would be to wait a year for the cost (in players) to fall from astronomical to a single second-round draft pick, while also avoiding the redundancy problem that you'd have with both Roberts and DeRosa on the same roster.

 

Except for the fact that DeRosa probably wouldn't be retained if the Cubs went after Roberts, unless DeRosa was being kept to play OF.