Why wont Lou move Lee out of the 3 hole?

[YearofDaCubs]

I guess it doesn't make much sense to me that most of the people in this thread want Lee out of the 3-hole, yet most are completely fine with Soriano batting leadoff.

That's because we all know that Lou will not remove Soriano from the leadoff spot. It's not an option.

[Peoriaman]

Personally, I would like to give Lee some rest. He never sits out. He has 2 days now, I would sit him out a couple more, esp if they are righthanders we face.

[imb]

because it doesn't make a difference

 

It might in a short series, but then again he could get red hot in a short series, so I guess in the end you are right.

 

with 12 games or whatever left, what kind of difference does anyone expect swapping aramis and lee will produce? Even if you put Aramis third and Lee sixth or something, how many more runs will those extra 7 at bats be? and what are the odds that whatever bonus we get from those seven at bats is a gamechanger?

 

i just dont see it making a difference, certainly not enough of one to justify dropping the team leader (whatever that means) three spots two weeks before the playoffs. Seems like it might cause more trouble than it would be worth.

[Rob]

Why can't people just let lineup order debates die a slow death?

[TruffleShuffle]

why can't people also stop suggesting changes that haven't been made all year? that's a good way for a manager to send the message to his players that he's panicking.

[Old Style]

I guess it doesn't make much sense to me that most of the people in this thread want Lee out of the 3-hole, yet most are completely fine with Soriano batting leadoff.

 

Cause Soriano is a good hitter.

 

Agree, Soriano is actually showing quite a bit more patience than Lee, lately. Over the last 10 games, Soriano has walked 8 times, Lee 4

 

Derrek's propensity to swing at the first pitch with a pitcher who just walked 2 batters is extremely frustrating.

That drives me soapdropping insane.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Someone posted the stats before, but I believe that a majority of Lee's home runs this season were hit with the wind blowing out at Wrigley. As the weather begins to change in late September and into the playoffs, I don't expect any sort of power production out of him whatsoever.

[rynefan]

I just don't see why Lee himself doesn't want to do more about it. Maybe he has, I wouldn't know I guess, but I don't buy into the theory that he's just done hitting like he used to and is now on his end-of-the-career decline (as suggested on a recent game thread). Something is up, no doubt, and I wish it could be figured out! With him stepping it up even half the time, think of how many more games this team wins.

[hossdriver]

I have noticed, that since Lee made his adjustment in 2005 to be able to turn on the inside pitch, it has opened him up to the pitch low and away.

 

Pitchers have honed in on this. Lee is a tall player. His knees are about where most players mid thigh are. Pitchers have an easier time locating on the outside part of the plate right at Derrek's knees. He can't hit it. If he lets it go by, he Ks looking. If he swings at it, he usually rolls it over meekly to SS or 3B. With a runner on 1B, the middle infield is licking its chops for the twin killing.

 

Lee is batting respectably with RISP at just above .300. Doesn't help much to bring runners home when your hits have no 'stank' on them. Lee's got to make the adjustment and go the other way on that outside pitch. He doesn't even hit the ball in the air anymore for sacrifice flies and such.

 

Lou should send a message. I think it would help tremendously just to swap Aramis and Lee in the order. You don't have to demote Lee to the bottom of the order. He's still an EVERYDAY player and you can't shuffle guys like Dero and Soto in and out of the 3 hole. Give Aramis MORE PAs with Soriano and Theriot and let Lee hit cleanup for a while.

 

Lee was so good going the other way last year with 43 doubles and going the other way. I think he's just been under so much pressure to be a power hitter, that he pulls EVERYTHING and you can't do that with balls low and away...

[jersey cubs fan]

I just don't see why Lee himself doesn't want to do more about it. Maybe he has, I wouldn't know I guess, but I don't buy into the theory that he's just done hitting like he used to and is now on his end-of-the-career decline (as suggested on a recent game thread). Something is up, no doubt, and I wish it could be figured out! With him stepping it up even half the time, think of how many more games this team wins.

 

Actually he is hitting just like he used to. He had one fluke season in the middle of his peak years. He's well past that peak and will most likely remain well below his peak numbers going forward. Why is this so hard for people to understand/accept? He's probably capable of multiple hot streaks that could last a month or more at a time. But DLee 2005 is never coming back, and he's most likely never going to look anything like that again.

[SouthSideRyan]

I just don't see why Lee himself doesn't want to do more about it. Maybe he has, I wouldn't know I guess, but I don't buy into the theory that he's just done hitting like he used to and is now on his end-of-the-career decline (as suggested on a recent game thread). Something is up, no doubt, and I wish it could be figured out! With him stepping it up even half the time, think of how many more games this team wins.

 

Actually he is hitting just like he used to. He had one fluke season in the middle of his peak years. He's well past that peak and will most likely remain well below his peak numbers going forward. Why is this so hard for people to understand/accept? He's probably capable of multiple hot streaks that could last a month or more at a time. But DLee 2005 is never coming back, and he's most likely never going to look anything like that again.

 

The problem is Lee was DLee '05 in April, and since then he's been as bad as he's been since before he was any good. It's a disturbing trend.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

why can't people also stop suggesting changes that haven't been made all year? that's a good way for a manager to send the message to his players that he's panicking.

 

Perhaps because it gives better hitters more PA and in doing so, increases our chances at scoring more runs, which increases our chances of winning.

 

That's the goal, right? :scratch:

[David]

why can't people also stop suggesting changes that haven't been made all year? that's a good way for a manager to send the message to his players that he's panicking.

 

Perhaps because it gives better hitters more PA and in doing so, increases our chances at scoring more runs, which increases our chances of winning.

 

That's the goal, right? :scratch:

 

The increase in all of that, especially with like 15 games left, is so miniscule, that it's not even worth talking about and even less worth the possibility that it freaks the players out, because a move like that, after 145ish games and in the midst of a bad stretch, reeks of panic.

[David]

I would love to see the difference in run expectancy between the extreme absolute worst possible lineup (worst to best 1-9) vs. the best possible over the course of 15 games.

[Soul]

I just don't see why Lee himself doesn't want to do more about it. Maybe he has, I wouldn't know I guess, but I don't buy into the theory that he's just done hitting like he used to and is now on his end-of-the-career decline (as suggested on a recent game thread). Something is up, no doubt, and I wish it could be figured out! With him stepping it up even half the time, think of how many more games this team wins.

 

Actually he is hitting just like he used to. He had one fluke season in the middle of his peak years. He's well past that peak and will most likely remain well below his peak numbers going forward. Why is this so hard for people to understand/accept? He's probably capable of multiple hot streaks that could last a month or more at a time. But DLee 2005 is never coming back, and he's most likely never going to look anything like that again.

This truth makes me sad.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

why can't people also stop suggesting changes that haven't been made all year? that's a good way for a manager to send the message to his players that he's panicking.

 

Perhaps because it gives better hitters more PA and in doing so, increases our chances at scoring more runs, which increases our chances of winning.

 

That's the goal, right? :scratch:

 

The increase in all of that, especially with like 15 games left, is so miniscule, that it's not even worth talking about and even less worth the possibility that it freaks the players out, because a move like that, after 145ish games and in the midst of a bad stretch, reeks of panic.

 

I'd do it for the playoffs as well, not just the last 16 games.

[Banedon]

i'm still mad at lee for not telling lou and whoever was pitching at the time that carlos lee really kills cubs pitching.

 

Howry.

[Connor McConnor]

Of course if Lee gets hot and leads the Cubs to the World Series....he will be King of Chicago.

Or not.

[Brett]

why can't people also stop suggesting changes that haven't been made all year? that's a good way for a manager to send the message to his players that he's panicking.

 

Perhaps because it gives better hitters more PA and in doing so, increases our chances at scoring more runs, which increases our chances of winning.

 

That's the goal, right? :scratch:

 

The increase in all of that, especially with like 15 games left, is so miniscule, that it's not even worth talking about and even less worth the possibility that it freaks the players out, because a move like that, after 145ish games and in the midst of a bad stretch, reeks of panic.

 

I'd do it for the playoffs as well, not just the last 16 games.

 

The point of doing it *IS* for the playoffs, not the regular season. But you've got to do it in the regular season so guys can adjust BEFORE the playoffs.

[inari]

why can't people also stop suggesting changes that haven't been made all year? that's a good way for a manager to send the message to his players that he's panicking.

 

Perhaps because it gives better hitters more PA and in doing so, increases our chances at scoring more runs, which increases our chances of winning.

 

That's the goal, right? :scratch:

 

The increase in all of that, especially with like 15 games left, is so miniscule, that it's not even worth talking about and even less worth the possibility that it freaks the players out, because a move like that, after 145ish games and in the midst of a bad stretch, reeks of panic.

 

I'd do it for the playoffs as well, not just the last 16 games.

 

The point of doing it *IS* for the playoffs, not the regular season. But you've got to do it in the regular season so guys can adjust BEFORE the playoffs.

 

Do you feel that Aramis and Lee will need time to adjust to hitting 3rd and 6th, respectively? Geo's been yanked around the lineup all year.

[YearofDaCubs]

Hollandsworth was on WGN radio earlier this night and said to him at least it looks as though Lee has been off balance and he seems to try and pull more than before. He also said Lee hasn't gotten hot with the bat at all this year like he has in the past.

[rynefan]

I just don't see why Lee himself doesn't want to do more about it. Maybe he has, I wouldn't know I guess, but I don't buy into the theory that he's just done hitting like he used to and is now on his end-of-the-career decline (as suggested on a recent game thread). Something is up, no doubt, and I wish it could be figured out! With him stepping it up even half the time, think of how many more games this team wins.

 

Actually he is hitting just like he used to. He had one fluke season in the middle of his peak years. He's well past that peak and will most likely remain well below his peak numbers going forward. Why is this so hard for people to understand/accept? He's probably capable of multiple hot streaks that could last a month or more at a time. But DLee 2005 is never coming back, and he's most likely never going to look anything like that again.

This truth makes me sad.

 

Yes, the truth definitely hurts.

[rynefan]

i'm still mad at lee for not telling lou and whoever was pitching at the time that carlos lee really kills cubs pitching.

 

Howry.

 

Funny how his name (the H word) comes up everytime talk turns to underperforming

[Wilson A2000]

Soriano

Theriot

ARam

Soto

Lee

Fukudome

DeRosa

Edmonds/Johnson

PITCHER

 

I like this, except I would move Fukudome down one spot.

[DiamondMind]

I guess it doesn't make much sense to me that most of the people in this thread want Lee out of the 3-hole, yet most are completely fine with Soriano batting leadoff.

 

Cause Soriano is a good hitter.

 

Agree, Soriano is actually showing quite a bit more patience than Lee, lately. Over the last 10 games, Soriano has walked 8 times, Lee 4

 

Derrek's propensity to swing at the first pitch with a pitcher who just walked 2 batters is extremely frustrating.

That drives me soapdropping insane.

 

Same here.