Ryan Dempster: Legit Cy Young Candidate:

[Cynosure]

Sucks that Lincecum > Webb but Lincecum plays for the Giants and is immune to getting wins unlike Webb.

 

Wish Wins didn't count for Cy Young, wish the voters would grow up and reward real stats.

[wvcbxl]

We all know that the W/L record for a pitcher is pretty much useless due to several factors (and I hate the fact that voters use a useless stat in their process to award the Cy Young award), but you don't hear anything about Dempster in the mix of the Cy Young, and I think that is a disservice to Ryan.

 

It seems to me you are mixing up two different discussions: who has a chance to win the Cy Young and how it should be awarded in terms of merit. Your comments on the factor considered primarily by the voters are legit, but considering realistic candidates that's what you have to deal with, hence the omission of Ryan Dempster from the discussions.

The argument on more appropriate factors to consider candidates is a completely different one, however.

[Andy]

Let's hope Dempster doesn't win it, he's already going to require an assload of money to re-sign.

The Cubs should not re-sign him.

[Gingerballs Lives]

Let's hope Dempster doesn't win it, he's already going to require an assload of money to re-sign.

The Cubs should not re-sign him.

 

You don't think the Cubs should re-sign Dempster?

[Andy]

Let's hope Dempster doesn't win it, he's already going to require an assload of money to re-sign.

The Cubs should not re-sign him.

 

You don't think the Cubs should re-sign Dempster?

No. Too much money, lots of cheaper alternatives. Love the guy but he's going to command way more than he's going to be worth.

[10man]

Yeah. Even with a goodwill "thank you for taking a chance on me when my career was on the scrap heap and letting me resurrect it first as a closer then reinvented as a starter" discount, Dempster might still cost too much. But then again, who knows what Mark Cuban is willing to spend ey? :mrgreen:

[David]

Yea, but if Cuban is willing to go nuts, I'd rather it be for CC, assuming Yost doesn't pitch his arm off.

 

Sheets would be a decent consolation prize, but his injuries are the obvious concern.

[CubbieBum]

considering how great he has been, what all the players say he means to the clubhouse, and the assumed some kind of a discount I see no reason not to sign him. The pitching market has gotten out of hand so to get a great starter with a small discount is something you can't pass up. I would say a 4 yr - 55-60 mil is fair and probably what it will be around.

[CubbieBum]

Oh and if Webb or Lincecum don't get it because they are on bad teams they will likely turn to CC because it would be a big story with lots of uniqueness (assuming Brews make playoffs). If they want a good team to have the CY then they will probably look at Demp and have him finish top 3 but not win it because he's not a huge name. Then again we have a full month and some change left and lots of things can change. If Harden continues to pitch like he has and gets a lot of wins he could jump passed CC in the midseason dominantion field for Cy Young.

[David]

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that it's a terrible idea to sign guys coming off career years to big contracts. Don't let emotions cloud your judgment.

 

I don't expect Ryan Dempster to continue to be one of the top few pitchers in baseball. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

[David]

I'd only re-sign Dempster to a very team friendly deal.

 

Giving him a lot of money could turn out to be disastrous.

[Sammy Sofa]

What is the Cubs' record when Dempster isn't beloved by his teammates?

[kjfoster 1553]

From Ken Rosenthal's article today:

 

Cubs right-hander Ryan Dempster is putting together a monster season heading into free agency, but the chances of him leaving Chicago are minimal, even with the Cubs in the process of being sold.

 

Dempster, much like Cubs closer Kerry Wood, enjoys a close relationship with general manager Jim Hendry. At some point, Hendry will be asked to detail his offseason plans for the competing ownership groups. Re-signing Dempster almost certainly will be his No. 1 priority.

 

Dempster, sixth in the NL with a 2.92 ERA, is starting regularly for the first time since 2003, but showing no signs of wearing down. His monthly ERAs, from April to August: 3.16, 2.35, 4.55, 1.99, 3.06.

[Andy]

considering how great he has been, what all the players say he means to the clubhouse, and the assumed some kind of a discount I see no reason not to sign him. The pitching market has gotten out of hand so to get a great starter with a small discount is something you can't pass up. I would say a 4 yr - 55-60 mil is fair and probably what it will be around.

4 years and 55-60 million for Dempster past his prime would be one of the most indescribably stupid things the Cubs have ever done, and that's saying something.

[MPC]

What is the Cubs' record when Dempster isn't beloved by his teammates?

0-0, it's not possible.

[RedFlash]

I'd only re-sign Dempster to a very team friendly deal.

 

Giving him a lot of money could turn out to be disastrous.

 

Agreed. I would also say that before I re-sign Dempster that both Marquis and Lilly would have be dealt. Regards to Dempster contract, i wouldn't mind if they frontload the deal.

[CubbieBum]

considering how great he has been, what all the players say he means to the clubhouse, and the assumed some kind of a discount I see no reason not to sign him. The pitching market has gotten out of hand so to get a great starter with a small discount is something you can't pass up. I would say a 4 yr - 55-60 mil is fair and probably what it will be around.

4 years and 55-60 million for Dempster past his prime would be one of the most indescribably stupid things the Cubs have ever done, and that's saying something.

 

exaggerate much?

[David]

considering how great he has been, what all the players say he means to the clubhouse, and the assumed some kind of a discount I see no reason not to sign him. The pitching market has gotten out of hand so to get a great starter with a small discount is something you can't pass up. I would say a 4 yr - 55-60 mil is fair and probably what it will be around.

4 years and 55-60 million for Dempster past his prime would be one of the most indescribably stupid things the Cubs have ever done, and that's saying something.

 

exaggerate much?

 

That's not an exaggeration.

 

You're talking about giving up to $15M per for 4 years to a 31 year old pitcher who is coming off a surprisingly good year out of nowhere.

[CoolHandLuke]

I know it's not very fair to Dempster, but you have to sign a guy based on what he will do and not what he has done. Will Dempster pitch this well over the next four years? Maybe, but I'd say the chances are pretty slim.

 

If I can unload Marquis, I maybe give him a Ted Lilly contract. And that is with letting some emotion enter the picture.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What is the Cubs' record when Dempster isn't beloved by his teammates?

0-0, it's not possible.

 

However, this still somehow works out to a 1.000 winning percentage, defying the scoffers who said you cannot divide by zero.

[badnews]

How is Dempster *not* going to get 4 years, $60 million? I seriously doubt he'll take less total money than Carlos Silva. These guys have pride.

[davell]

There's a decent amount of pitching out there this offseason for a change.......You have the guys who are old, but still decent with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Mussina, Randy Johnson, Schilling, Pedro, Pettitte, and Paul Byrd. Some of those guys will retire, but the fact that there are a lot of these types out there, unless you're a top flight guy like Sabathia or even Sheets(who will get big money, just not CC big), you could see teams pull back at least a little bit on their spending. Some teams would probably rather take a chance on a one year deal on some of these guys than spend mega bucks on Dempster, Burnett, Garland, Lowe, Looper, Oliver Perez, or Randy Wolf.

 

4-60 sounds about right for Dempster, considering the season he's having. If the Cubs don't see this as a fluke season, they ought to keep him for something around that range. Out of that second group of guys I just named, I could see him getting the largest contract of anyone in that group. Perez MAY get a bit more, because of age, but I don't see anyone else getting close.

 

To the credit of Hendry though, he builds loyalty within the organization as well as any GM out there, from what I can tell. Whatever the actual market is for Demp, I feel confident that we'll get a discount on him at least.

[CubFanPhilly]

How is Dempster *not* going to get 4 years, $60 million? I seriously doubt he'll take less total money than Carlos Silva. These guys have pride.

 

Silva's deal was 4/$48 mil. with a $12 mil. option for a 5th year.

 

He might be offered that, but I don't think it's certain either. He'll be 32 next May. He's coming off one excellent year as a starter, three years as an average closer, and otherwise average career as an MLB pitcher. I can see Dempster accepting a smaller deal with the Cubs. 3 years $33-36 mil. and a club option that would take it to 4/$45 mil will a small buy out. That's a richer deal than Lilly got and imo enough to sooth the pride factor.

 

There are a lot of qualitative factors that go into the decision and I think most of these factors favor the Cubs:

-probability of richer offers from other clubs ----

-financial security (Demp's career earnings are ~$23 mil.) ---

-peer/MLBPA pressure to sign the biggest possible contract -

-comfortable situation: "clubhouse chemistry", relationship with coaches, manager & GM +++++++

-opportunity to win +++++

-location (as far as I know Demp has no significant connection to Chicago) +

-loyalty to the organization (the Cubs signed him to a rehab deal) ++

-fan base ++

 

What these other factors mean to the player is all speculation but if I had to rate the chances:

"10" - Andre Dawson/will sign a blank contract to play for the Cubs

"0" - Hired gun/desperately wants out of town

 

I'd put Dempster at 6.5 (3 yrs ~$33-$34 mil. with a club option for a fourth year)

 

Wood (32 in June):

-probability of richer offers ---

-financial security (career earnings are ~$55 mil.) -

-peer/MLBPA pressure --

-comfortable situation +++

-opportunity to win +++++++

-location ++++++++

-loyalty to the organization (I think he feels more or less square with the club after his disasterous contract) ++

-fan base ++++

 

I'd put Wood at: 8 (2 years/~$12-$15 mil.)

 

CFP

[CuseCubFan69]

Yea, but if Cuban is willing to go nuts, I'd rather it be for CC, assuming Yost doesn't pitch his arm off.

 

Sheets would be a decent consolation prize, but his injuries are the obvious concern.

 

I'd be shocked if the Yanks didn't offer CC the moon.

 

Sheets wouldn't be a bad option depending on cost and the Cubs pitching depth in the minors when he needs his tweeks for a month.

[Gingerballs Lives]

I really hope that the Cubs resign Dempster.................hometown discount or no hometown discount.

 

He's been extremely consistent this year, is a noted workout fanatic and a big part of the clubhouse.

 

I really think this is who Ryan Dempster is. I wish Hendry could just transfer the last 3 years of KFuk's deal to Demp and call it even.

 

Hopefully he's back next year, I love Harden but we know about his injury problems. That would leave Z and Lilly and we know that's not good enough.