Cardinals possibly pursuing Jason Bay

[SouthSideRyan]

Am I the only one who could really care less if the Cardinals trade for Bay? Their bullpen still isnt very good, and their starting pitching is still very very unlikely to continue doing what theyve done this far. Welly has already came back down to earth, their number 5 spot in the rotation is a revolving door, Looper isnt very good, and Pinerio isnt either. The Cards are basing ALL their hope on getting Carp and Wainwright back. Kinda like how us Cubs fans have based all our hope on Wood and Prior in years past. I know Wood and Prior have much longer injury history than Wainwright, but the idea that Cards fans keep hoping for Carp to hurry up is a joke. Carp is coming off TJ surgery, hes not going to just slide back into the rotation this year and be Cy Young caliber. Odds are better that he will have a few shining moments, but he will also have alot of disaster starts while trying to regain velocity, and command which is usually the last thing you get back after TJ surgery.

 

I'm more worried about Bay being a Cardinal for the future. This year, I'd love for them to go crazy on rentals and lose one of Anderson or Rasmus, but I don't like them improving their team long-term.

[anabiono]

i think the best case scenario would be bay becoming a met because then they may have what it takes to snag the wildcard and then we could all point and laugh at the brewers

[Keener98]

Am I the only one who could really care less if the Cardinals trade for Bay? Their bullpen still isnt very good, and their starting pitching is still very very unlikely to continue doing what theyve done this far. Welly has already came back down to earth, their number 5 spot in the rotation is a revolving door, Looper isnt very good, and Pinerio isnt either. The Cards are basing ALL their hope on getting Carp and Wainwright back. Kinda like how us Cubs fans have based all our hope on Wood and Prior in years past. I know Wood and Prior have much longer injury history than Wainwright, but the idea that Cards fans keep hoping for Carp to hurry up is a joke. Carp is coming off TJ surgery, hes not going to just slide back into the rotation this year and be Cy Young caliber. Odds are better that he will have a few shining moments, but he will also have alot of disaster starts while trying to regain velocity, and command which is usually the last thing you get back after TJ surgery.

 

I'm more worried about Bay being a Cardinal for the future. This year, I'd love for them to go crazy on rentals and lose one of Anderson or Rasmus, but I don't like them improving their team long-term.

 

Yea I can understand it from that perspective. However like you said Id love to see them lose Anderson and/or Rasmus. Speaking long term though, that team still will have questions. Glaus isnt a long term guy, Izturis isnt either, Kennedy or Miles dont scare anyone, Ankiel is a free agent after next year, LF is a revolving door of unknowns, and who knows if this is the real Ryan Ludwick, or a career year? Their rotation will have Wainwright, Carp(who knows how good), and others.

 

So while the Cards have shown this year they can hang around, I think they are still a quite a long way away from being legit contenders for a WS.

[Soul]

Am I the only one who could really care less if the Cardinals trade for Bay? Their bullpen still isnt very good, and their starting pitching is still very very unlikely to continue doing what theyve done this far. Welly has already came back down to earth, their number 5 spot in the rotation is a revolving door, Looper isnt very good, and Pinerio isnt either. The Cards are basing ALL their hope on getting Carp and Wainwright back. Kinda like how us Cubs fans have based all our hope on Wood and Prior in years past. I know Wood and Prior have much longer injury history than Wainwright, but the idea that Cards fans keep hoping for Carp to hurry up is a joke. Carp is coming off TJ surgery, hes not going to just slide back into the rotation this year and be Cy Young caliber. Odds are better that he will have a few shining moments, but he will also have alot of disaster starts while trying to regain velocity, and command which is usually the last thing you get back after TJ surgery.

 

I'm more worried about Bay being a Cardinal for the future. This year, I'd love for them to go crazy on rentals and lose one of Anderson or Rasmus, but I don't like them improving their team long-term.

 

Yea I can understand it from that perspective. However like you said Id love to see them lose Anderson and/or Rasmus. Speaking long term though, that team still will have questions. Glaus isnt a long term guy, Izturis isnt either, Kennedy or Miles dont scare anyone, Ankiel is a free agent after next year, LF is a revolving door of unknowns, and who knows if this is the real Ryan Ludwick, or a career year? Their rotation will have Wainwright, Carp(who knows how good), and others.

 

So while the Cards have shown this year they can hang around, I think they are still a quite a long way away from being legit contenders for a WS.

Yeah, the problem the Cards are facing is that they need pitching, and the legit top of the order starters that are likely to be on the market are now gone. That's why they are hoping and praying for the strong return of Wainwright & Carp.

 

They can acquire Bay if they wish, but to a certain degree it's more of the same for them. They already score enough. I agree on the future thing though -- I wouldn't want to see Bay on the Cards in upcoming seasons.

 

I would think the Pirates would be biased towards trading Bay to a team they only face 7 times a season, not 19 times a season, unless the deal is much better from the divisional team. Could be wrong though.

[bcl412]

From a Pirates stand point I don't see why you would trade for Bay, unless you got Rasmus for him, this Pirates can score some runs. If they found a way to get even decent pitching they would be a pretty good ball club, especially in the crappy National League.

[Amie]

If you can take Cardinal owner Dewitt at his word, he won't let top prospects like Rasmus go for trade. He said this in and interview tonight. In fact he sounds like they will not make many moves at all. =D>

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/7C185D88973483DC86257489000D190C?OpenDocument

 

P-D: Back to the club. Much speculation has sprouted about how far the organization will go to acquire help for this year's team if it remains in contention. What does that say about the availability of premium prospects such as Colby Rasmus?

 

BDJ: They're must-haves for any organization. I don't think you can trade potential premium prospects unless you get premium players back. I think what a lot of clubs have done historically is trade premium prospects for less-than-premium return. I don't agree with a short-term fix. A lot of quick fixes don't work. Time goes on, you're down the road, and your former prospect is out there putting up All-Star numbers for someone else.

 

P-D: Is there a chance that Rasmus could play his first major-league game in another uniform?

 

BDJ: I don't anticipate that. No.

[Laura]

Welcome to the forums, Amie!

[Drew Doughty]

Am I the only one who could really care less if the Cardinals trade for Bay? Their bullpen still isnt very good, and their starting pitching is still very very unlikely to continue doing what theyve done this far. Welly has already came back down to earth, their number 5 spot in the rotation is a revolving door, Looper isnt very good, and Pinerio isnt either. The Cards are basing ALL their hope on getting Carp and Wainwright back. Kinda like how us Cubs fans have based all our hope on Wood and Prior in years past. I know Wood and Prior have much longer injury history than Wainwright, but the idea that Cards fans keep hoping for Carp to hurry up is a joke. Carp is coming off TJ surgery, hes not going to just slide back into the rotation this year and be Cy Young caliber. Odds are better that he will have a few shining moments, but he will also have alot of disaster starts while trying to regain velocity, and command which is usually the last thing you get back after TJ surgery.

 

I'm more worried about Bay being a Cardinal for the future. This year, I'd love for them to go crazy on rentals and lose one of Anderson or Rasmus, but I don't like them improving their team long-term.

 

i would really rather they hang on to anderson and not trade him while he still has value.

[Sammy Sofa]

Am I the only one who could really care less if the Cardinals trade for Bay? Their bullpen still isnt very good, and their starting pitching is still very very unlikely to continue doing what theyve done this far. Welly has already came back down to earth, their number 5 spot in the rotation is a revolving door, Looper isnt very good, and Pinerio isnt either. The Cards are basing ALL their hope on getting Carp and Wainwright back. Kinda like how us Cubs fans have based all our hope on Wood and Prior in years past. I know Wood and Prior have much longer injury history than Wainwright, but the idea that Cards fans keep hoping for Carp to hurry up is a joke. Carp is coming off TJ surgery, hes not going to just slide back into the rotation this year and be Cy Young caliber. Odds are better that he will have a few shining moments, but he will also have alot of disaster starts while trying to regain velocity, and command which is usually the last thing you get back after TJ surgery.

 

HOW MUCH MORE LESS COULD YOU CARE.

[kjfoster 1553]

i had heard that the rays were trying for bay...if he goes to cards...who cares...the diamondbacks?...meh

 

just not the rays...let the rays have the redhead

 

i think you're mixed up.

 

jason bay to the rays = hooray

 

jason bay to the cards = bad

 

no, i am not mixed up...the team that has always scared me in the division is the brewers

 

bay to the cards...big deal

 

Yes, it would be a big deal.

 

They are only 4.5 back, and though I believe we can expand that to 6 or 8 games middle of August, I still don't want them upgrading OF. Ankiel, Ludwick, Schumaker, and Bay in the OF, and maybe sometimes Duncan.

 

Along with all their pitchers that are hurt (though some won't come back 100%, if at all)

 

I would much rather the Rays have him, not playing them the rest of the year. It will be the Bo Sox or Angels in the WS anyway...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Am I the only one who could really care less if the Cardinals trade for Bay? Their bullpen still isnt very good, and their starting pitching is still very very unlikely to continue doing what theyve done this far. Welly has already came back down to earth, their number 5 spot in the rotation is a revolving door, Looper isnt very good, and Pinerio isnt either. The Cards are basing ALL their hope on getting Carp and Wainwright back. Kinda like how us Cubs fans have based all our hope on Wood and Prior in years past. I know Wood and Prior have much longer injury history than Wainwright, but the idea that Cards fans keep hoping for Carp to hurry up is a joke. Carp is coming off TJ surgery, hes not going to just slide back into the rotation this year and be Cy Young caliber. Odds are better that he will have a few shining moments, but he will also have alot of disaster starts while trying to regain velocity, and command which is usually the last thing you get back after TJ surgery.

 

HOW MUCH MORE LESS COULD YOU CARE.

 

Not as much as I'd care if they took away my french benefits.

[Sammy Sofa]

Am I the only one who could really care less if the Cardinals trade for Bay? Their bullpen still isnt very good, and their starting pitching is still very very unlikely to continue doing what theyve done this far. Welly has already came back down to earth, their number 5 spot in the rotation is a revolving door, Looper isnt very good, and Pinerio isnt either. The Cards are basing ALL their hope on getting Carp and Wainwright back. Kinda like how us Cubs fans have based all our hope on Wood and Prior in years past. I know Wood and Prior have much longer injury history than Wainwright, but the idea that Cards fans keep hoping for Carp to hurry up is a joke. Carp is coming off TJ surgery, hes not going to just slide back into the rotation this year and be Cy Young caliber. Odds are better that he will have a few shining moments, but he will also have alot of disaster starts while trying to regain velocity, and command which is usually the last thing you get back after TJ surgery.

 

HOW MUCH MORE LESS COULD YOU CARE.

 

Not as much as I'd care if they took away my french benefits.

 

NONE MORE LESS.

[Amie]

Welcome to the forums, Amie!

 

Thanks Laura...!!

[cubbyvirus00]

Imagine if they gave Jason Bay some pixie dust.....

[hotshot13422]

Imagine if they gave Jason Bay some pixie dust.....

 

A guy with actual talent...... given cardinal pixie dust.......... oh, the humanity!!

[third eye]

From a Pirates stand point I don't see why you would trade for Bay, unless you got Rasmus for him, this Pirates can score some runs. If they found a way to get even decent pitching they would be a pretty good ball club, especially in the crappy National League.

 

 

Yeah, though they were counting on Snell and Gorzelany being better this year. Anyone have details on why they have underperformed so badly? Is there something physically wrong with either/both of them?

[Jake]

Yeah, though they were counting on Snell and Gorzelany being better this year. Anyone have details on why they have underperformed so badly? Is there something physically wrong with either/both of them?

 

Gorzo: Too many innings last year. I think it was 40 more than the year before. And, all to get that magical 15th win on a losing team.

 

Snell: nobody knows. Velocity is good. control is good. Seems to be all in his head. It'll be interesting to see what he does tonight.

[fromthestretch]

Yeah, though they were counting on Snell and Gorzelany being better this year. Anyone have details on why they have underperformed so badly? Is there something physically wrong with either/both of them?

 

Gorzo: Too many innings last year. I think it was 40 more than the year before. And, all to get that magical 15th win on a losing team.

 

Snell: nobody knows. Velocity is good. control is good. Seems to be all in his head. It'll be interesting to see what he does tonight.

 

Control is good?

 

2007: 2.9 BB/9, 7.7 K/9

2008: 5.2 BB/9, 6.8 K/9

 

He's walking a lot more batters this year.

[Jake]

http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pbc/archive/2008/07/18/nothing-doing-on-st-louis-front.aspx#comments

[Jake]

Yeah, though they were counting on Snell and Gorzelany being better this year. Anyone have details on why they have underperformed so badly? Is there something physically wrong with either/both of them?

 

Gorzo: Too many innings last year. I think it was 40 more than the year before. And, all to get that magical 15th win on a losing team.

 

Snell: nobody knows. Velocity is good. control is good. Seems to be all in his head. It'll be interesting to see what he does tonight.

 

Control is good?

 

2007: 2.9 BB/9, 7.7 K/9

2008: 5.2 BB/9, 6.8 K/9

 

He's walking a lot more batters this year.

 

Very true. But, the problem is not defined in the stats. The problem is he's afraid to throw his fastball. Thus, he's throwing more breaking stuff, or nibling on the plate more. Therefore walking more batters. It's not that he can't get his fastball over. He isn't throwing it as much. He's not challenging hitters.

 

When he's aggressive, as he was all of last year, he throws strikes.

 

Does this make sense?

[fromthestretch]

Yeah, though they were counting on Snell and Gorzelany being better this year. Anyone have details on why they have underperformed so badly? Is there something physically wrong with either/both of them?

 

Gorzo: Too many innings last year. I think it was 40 more than the year before. And, all to get that magical 15th win on a losing team.

 

Snell: nobody knows. Velocity is good. control is good. Seems to be all in his head. It'll be interesting to see what he does tonight.

 

Control is good?

 

2007: 2.9 BB/9, 7.7 K/9

2008: 5.2 BB/9, 6.8 K/9

 

He's walking a lot more batters this year.

 

Very true. But, the problem is not defined in the stats. The problem is he's afraid to throw his fastball. Thus, he's throwing more breaking stuff, or nibling on the plate more. Therefore walking more batters. It's not that he can't get his fastball over. He isn't throwing it as much. He's not challenging hitters.

 

When he's aggressive, as he was all of last year, he throws strikes.

 

Does this make sense?

 

I understand what you're saying. It seems you're pointing more towards an issue with his confidence in his fastball. However, if he truly is using his secondary pitches more, then his command with them sucks. If that's the case, he's most likely falling behind hitters early with offspeed and breaking pitches and then having to come back with the fastball behind in the count. I'd be curious to see the percentage of fastballs thrown this year compared to last year as well as what he's starting hitters off with.

[sneakypower]

I understand what you're saying. It seems you're pointing more towards an issue with his confidence in his fastball. However, if he truly is using his secondary pitches more, then his command with them sucks. If that's the case, he's most likely falling behind hitters early with offspeed and breaking pitches and then having to come back with the fastball behind in the count. I'd be curious to see the percentage of fastballs thrown this year compared to last year as well as what he's starting hitters off with.

 

2007: fastball - 52.5% slider 37.3%

2008: fastball - 62.5% slider 32.4%

 

he's throwing his fastball more often than last year for sure. he's lost a minor amount of velo on both but gained movement, which might contribute to lessened control.

 

he's starting out hitters with FB 59% slider 31%

was 73/27 last year

[treebird]

I understand what you're saying. It seems you're pointing more towards an issue with his confidence in his fastball. However, if he truly is using his secondary pitches more, then his command with them sucks. If that's the case, he's most likely falling behind hitters early with offspeed and breaking pitches and then having to come back with the fastball behind in the count. I'd be curious to see the percentage of fastballs thrown this year compared to last year as well as what he's starting hitters off with.

 

2007: fastball - 52.5% slider 37.3%

2008: fastball - 62.5% slider 32.4%

 

he's throwing his fastball more often than last year for sure. he's lost a minor amount of velo on both but gained movement, which might contribute to lessened control.

 

he's starting out hitters with FB 59% slider 31%

was 73/27 last year

 

so maybe the fastball % is up because he's always behind in the count because he doesn't throw it to start off the hitters enough?

[Jake]

Yeah, though they were counting on Snell and Gorzelany being better this year. Anyone have details on why they have underperformed so badly? Is there something physically wrong with either/both of them?

 

Gorzo: Too many innings last year. I think it was 40 more than the year before. And, all to get that magical 15th win on a losing team.

 

Snell: nobody knows. Velocity is good. control is good. Seems to be all in his head. It'll be interesting to see what he does tonight.

 

Control is good?

 

2007: 2.9 BB/9, 7.7 K/9

2008: 5.2 BB/9, 6.8 K/9

 

He's walking a lot more batters this year.

 

Very true. But, the problem is not defined in the stats. The problem is he's afraid to throw his fastball. Thus, he's throwing more breaking stuff, or nibling on the plate more. Therefore walking more batters. It's not that he can't get his fastball over. He isn't throwing it as much. He's not challenging hitters.

 

When he's aggressive, as he was all of last year, he throws strikes.

 

Does this make sense?

 

I understand what you're saying. It seems you're pointing more towards an issue with his confidence in his fastball. However, if he truly is using his secondary pitches more, then his command with them sucks. If that's the case, he's most likely falling behind hitters early with offspeed and breaking pitches and then having to come back with the fastball behind in the count. I'd be curious to see the percentage of fastballs thrown this year compared to last year as well as what he's starting hitters off with.

 

Yeah, that's the point. I'm not sure it's a matter of confidence, but a matter of concentration. Some of the things he's said this year make it sound like he's distracted out there. It's too late in the evening to find quotes.

[CubbieBum]

They just may get Bay and then go eat some hay. What do you guys say?