Re: College Basketball 2008-2009

[illiniguy]

So you're saying Calipari's already forcing kids out

I thought Cal pretty much came right and said this in his first interview. He said something to the extent if the guys can't play he will not give them a free ride. Makes sense. UK hired him to win and in order to do that he has to have the guys that can play.

 

Yeah, coaches often will encourage a player to transfer or decommit if that player doesn't fit the new coach's system.

 

I know Bruce Pearl and Lane Kiffin did that when they got to Tennessee.

 

Well if those 2 aren't the moral standards to hold a coach up to, I don't know who is. It is NOT COMMON to run players off when you come to a new school.

and you know this because you've been an athlete at a school when a change is made? thought so. it very much is a common practice. one that the kids even don't disprove of. it's way better than the coach not telling you anything, then bam your minutes are gone. cal is actually just letting the kids know in advance that they won't play many minutes in his system. it isn't even really putting them down so much as saying they aren't the right type of athelte for what he wants to do.

 

do you also realize that illlinois is one over right now on scholarships. the one over would be jereme richmond, crandall head, or myers leonard. i imagine you want weber to do the honorable thing and tell jereme we can't take him as he would have to run someone off in order to get the scholly?

 

like it or not schollys are one year renewable.

Edited April 3, 2009 by illiniguy

[TruffleShuffle]

yep, i bet you would.

 

 

 

i'd say it's a more rewarding end to the season than... say, losing to western kentucky.

 

Yawn.

 

The Illini overachieved all season, and I was not surprised they lost. But I don't believe for a second most PSU fans wouldn't trade an NCAA berth and immediate dismissal for an NIT championship, nor do I believe the players would. Not for a second.

 

i wouldn't, at all. at all. winning 5 games in a row, two of them at home, at least one of them in really exciting fashion, is a lot more fun than losing a neutral court first round game in the ncaa tournament. i'd say the 36 buses of students that went to MSG today would agree with that.

 

I don't buy it. Sure it's a positive note to end on, but let's face it: The NIT is perceived by nearly everyone as a tournament for teams that are not quite good enough for the NCAAs. It's like winning the consolation game. Or being your buddy's wingman and taking one for the team. Sure, you got laid, but you're not going to be bragging about it to your friends.

 

You can rationalize it any way you want to, but the reality is that no one cares who wins the NIT except for who wins the NIT. I suppose if your team isn't accustomed to any sort of postseason success, it might mean more, but after the pseudo-euphoria of winning the NIT wears off, I'll bet you'll agree with me, whether you admit it or not.

 

If I were a PSU fan, I would be far more satisfied with the improvement within the league and toward the NCAAs than I would be about the NIT.

 

Though having said all that, I really want to see MSU win the National Championship and make it 2-2 for the Big 10 in postseason tourneys just because it would stick in the crevasses of tools like Hubert Davis.

 

that's nice, nobody cares what you "buy." you actually ARE right about one thing - the NIT is a tournament for teams who are not quite good enough to make the NCAAs as an at large team. what's the difference between a team like penn st and baylor and a team like michigan or wisconsin? it doesn't matter that those teams got into the tourney; they didn't have a realistic chance of winning it, just like any other bubble team.

 

the winner of the NIT gets to be on national TV 4 or 5 times; the last bubble team generally gets 1 NCAA tourney appearance, maybe 2 or 3 if they get a really nice draw. like i said, they filled up buses with 2,000 students, and i'm pretty sure that they wouldn't have gotten that many students interested in taking a bus to boise, ID or wherever to see them lose in the first round to a #4/5 team. at the end of the day, there's more exposure, more games, more student following and more pride in a team that wins the NIT than a team that busts out really early in the NCAA tourney.

[illiniguy]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

[TruffleShuffle]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

[illiniguy]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

I'm happier with what we did. The NIT would have been a waste of a year.

[manbearcub]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

illinois

[TruffleShuffle]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

I'm happier with what we did. The NIT would have been a waste of a year.

 

yes losing to western kentucky in the first round sure made this season a shining success for the illini. let me know how the "ncaa tournament participant" banner looks in the rafters at assembly hall.

[TruffleShuffle]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

illinois

 

wrong

[illiniguy]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

I'm happier with what we did. The NIT would have been a waste of a year.

 

yes losing to western kentucky in the first round sure made this season a shining success for the illini. let me know how the "ncaa tournament participant" banner looks in the rafters at assembly hall.

Yes because our season was definately defined in that one game. It will look way better than an NIT championship one that you'll hang.

[illiniguy]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

illinois

 

wrong

everyone's wrong but you, per usual.

[XZero771679666304]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

illinois

 

wrong

everyone's wrong but you, per usual.

 

No, we're just Illini fans jealous of PSU's NIT title. Except that no one outside of the PSU fanbase cares.

 

Every single player in the PSU locker room would have traded that NIT banner for one game in the NCAA's. If he doesn't really believe that, he's an idiot.

 

Also, notice how his argument shifted from "an NIT championship is better than one game in the NCAAs" to "well, we got more exposure". I'd be surprised it even that is true. I don't know the numbers, but I would be surprised if more people watched all of PSU's NIT games than watched Illinois' (or any of the other 32 teams eliminated on the first weekend) one loss.

[manbearcub]

Did you guys know that Ohio State won the NIT last year? I actually dont remember that happening.

[dawg pound]

you really are trying to argue that winning the nit is better than making the big dance? not one coach in america would buy that.

 

who cares what the coaches would say? even jamelle cornley was on the local radio and said their big goal was to make the ncaa tourney, and he was disappointed that they were left out. but overall, who had a more noticeable march/early april, illinois or penn st?

illinois

 

wrong

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

 

and people wonder why penn state is irrelevant in college hoops. maybe because winning the nit is viewed as a greater accomplishment than making the real tourney.

 

the only ONLY people who believe this are NITtany lions fans.

[XZero771679666304]

Did you guys know that Ohio State won the NIT last year? I actually dont remember that happening.

 

That's because no one cares. I would bet more people were tuned into ESPN2 or ESPNews watching Mark Schlereth wax moronic about the Cutler trade than gave a thought to the NIT final.

 

And I can say with all honesty that even if the Illini were in the same position, I would hardly care then, either.

[chuckywang]

Did you guys know that Ohio State won the NIT last year? I actually dont remember that happening.

 

That's because no one cares. I would bet more people were tuned into ESPN2 or ESPNews watching Mark Schlereth wax moronic about the Cutler trade than gave a thought to the NIT final.

 

And I can say with all honesty that even if the Illini were in the same position, I would hardly care then, either.

 

I just remember West Virginia winning it two years ago and their shirts were misprinted saying "West Virgina".

 

http://blog.spreadshirt.net/uk/files/2007/05/west_virgina.jpg

[Derwood]

You guys are right. Beating Illinois twice during the regular season was far more satisfying that winning the NIT.

 

8-)

[bukie]

You guys are right. Beating Illinois twice during the regular season was far more satisfying that winning the NIT.

 

8-)

Likewise, making the NCAA tourney was far more satisfying than losing twice to PSU.

[Derwood]

You guys are right. Beating Illinois twice during the regular season was far more satisfying that winning the NIT.

 

8-)

Likewise, making the NCAA tourney was far more satisfying than losing twice to PSU.

 

In all seriousness though, there was a different set of expectations coming into the season for both schools. PSU doesn't have any history of sustained success like Illinois does. A "down" year for Illinois is usually a "good" year for PSU. So, for a school that is trying to establish a higher level of competitiveness, a 5 game run through the NIT was a more valuable playing experience than the NCAA might have been. Now, if PSU had made the NCAA and had pulled an Arizona and gone to the Swet Sixteen, that' a completely different story.

 

Either way, I'm proud of the players for shaking of the disappointment of missing the dance and playing some really good basketball in the NIT. They'll get to hang a banner, and they'll return most of their players for another run in the Big Ten next year. If they can finish in the top half next year, I'll be pretty happy.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'd rather win the Humanitarian Bowl than lose in the Rose Bowl.

[bukie]

You guys are right. Beating Illinois twice during the regular season was far more satisfying that winning the NIT.

 

8-)

Likewise, making the NCAA tourney was far more satisfying than losing twice to PSU.

 

In all seriousness though, there was a different set of expectations coming into the season for both schools. PSU doesn't have any history of sustained success like Illinois does. A "down" year for Illinois is usually a "good" year for PSU. So, for a school that is trying to establish a higher level of competitiveness, a 5 game run through the NIT was a more valuable playing experience than the NCAA might have been. Now, if PSU had made the NCAA and had pulled an Arizona and gone to the Swet Sixteen, that' a completely different story.

 

Either way, I'm proud of the players for shaking of the disappointment of missing the dance and playing some really good basketball in the NIT. They'll get to hang a banner, and they'll return most of their players for another run in the Big Ten next year. If they can finish in the top half next year, I'll be pretty happy.

I just think Illinois had a year that really exceeded expectations, followed by a crippling injury to the senior starting PG that really tempered expectations going into the tourney. I'd probably have been a lot more disappointed if Frazier had played and they'd lost. I still think they got the best possible draw imaginable for the tourney, it just didn't work out this year.

 

Next year, I expect the Illini to struggle early with an almost complete changing out of the guards (3 freshmen in, Frazier/Meacham/Brock out), but ideally the new guys are a big enough step up in talent (go Brandon Paul) that they should still be competitive in a tough Big Ten.

[NeifiIsMyHomeBoy]

Anyone who is proud to be the NIT champ should have their head examined. Last year I was so embarrassed by the Illini's play that I did not want to go to any post season tournament even if we were invited. The ultimate goal is always the Big Dance and to say otherwise is foolish. BTW at Illinois we don't hang NCAA participation banners, that is soooooooooo Iowa.

[Derwood]

Anyone who is proud to be the NIT champ should have their head examined. Last year I was so embarrassed by the Illini's play that I did not want to go to any post season tournament even if we were invited. The ultimate goal is always the Big Dance and to say otherwise is foolish. BTW at Illinois we don't hang NCAA participation banners, that is soooooooooo Iowa.

 

but no one was embarrassed by PSU's performance this year. They were on the bubble and got caught in a numbers game. I'm more disappointed in them losing the finale @Iowa, which would have gotten them into the dance.

 

Again, it's a difference in expectations. If you thought you were a tourney team (eg Kentucky) but had to "settle" for the NIT, then yeah, I totally agree with you. If no one thought you'd be better than 10th in the Big Ten but ended up with 27 wins, what's to be down about?

[SouthSideRyan]

and you know this because you've been an athlete at a school when a change is made? thought so.

 

Oh is this the I was a big time athlete speech from Illiniguy? How was basketball at D3 bumbleF University?

 

There's a big difference between making an honest assessment of how somebody fits into a system, say a pocket QB committed to an an option system, and coming in and telling a kid, I don't care that you committed to the program, get your ass out of here, and take a nice mandated year off from college ball while you're at

 

do you also realize that illlinois is one over right now on scholarships. the one over would be jereme richmond, crandall head, or myers leonard. i imagine you want weber to do the honorable thing and tell jereme we can't take him as he would have to run someone off in order to get the scholly?

 

I'm just gonna be a spaz like you and assume they're all going to decommitt. Or realize that there's already a player who will have used 4 years of a scholarship by then. Or realize there's a slight difference between being oversigned by 1 2 years ahead of time and attempting to run off 3-4 kids right away to bring kids with you that committeed to another school already.

 

like it or not schollys are one year renewable

 

Like it or not, when a kid signs with a school, he's not expecting to be trying out for the team every summer. If it's so widely accepted among kids and coaches, why do teams ever have less than 13 on scholly? These kids who are so understanding and actually appreciative of being run off a team, should love the chance to go get a scholarship for a year and then get the privilege of sitting out for a season before moving on to Hofstra.

[SouthSideRyan]

Stuff about expectations

 

I think most of us here considered UI and PSU to be similar teams heading into the season. I know a lot of casual Illinois fans were way down on the team this year. I think you're overestimating our expectations heading into the season. I predicted NIT berths for both.

[Derwood]

Stuff about expectations

 

I think most of us here considered UI and PSU to be similar teams heading into the season. I know a lot of casual Illinois fans were way down on the team this year. I think you're overestimating our expectations heading into the season. I predicted NIT berths for both.

 

but for you, and NIT berth team is a disappointment for the program, expected or not. That's my point