Baseball History Thread

[OleMissCub]

Extremely rare shot of Babe and Joe Jackson. Had to have been in 1920, which was Georgie's first year with the Yankees and Joe's last year in the bigs:

 

 

 

http://www.blackbetsy.com/imagefarm/joeandbabe.jpg

[OleMissCub]

This is a pic that was recently found from the St. Mary school. Check out Babe Ruth on the far right. No telling how old he is in the picture, but look at this guns:

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36238&stc=1&d=1203655438

[TruffleShuffle]

Babe Ruth's 1921 season at age 26 seems impossible even in a video game:

 

152 games, .378/.512/.846, 59 HR, 44 doubles, 16 triples, 171 RBI, 177 runs scored, 145 walks, 17 stolen bases, 457 total bases, 239 OPS+

 

ABs per home run in 1921:

 

Ruth-NYY 9.2

Williams-SLB 22.8

Walker-PHA 24.2

Meusel-NYY 24.9

Smith-CLE 26.9

[OleMissCub]

Babe Ruth's 1921 season at age 26 seems impossible even in a video game:

 

152 games, .378/.512/.846, 59 HR, 44 doubles, 16 triples, 171 RBI, 177 runs scored, 145 walks, 17 stolen bases, 457 total bases, 239 OPS+

 

ABs per home run in 1921:

 

Ruth-NYY 9.2

Williams-SLB 22.8

Walker-PHA 24.2

Meusel-NYY 24.9

Smith-CLE 26.9

 

LOL

 

It was even worse in the National League:

 

Kelly-NYG 25.5

Hornsby-STL 28.2

Williams-PHI 31.2

McHenry-STL 33.8

Fournier-STL 35.9

[hawkeyecub]

Outstanding thread.

[Electron Blue]

Outstanding thread.

 

here here!!

 

one of my favorites, all-time

[Derwood]

what year did they stop counting ground rule doubles as homeruns?

[OleMissCub]

what year did they stop counting ground rule doubles as homeruns?

 

1929 or 1930, something around there I believe. Probably didn't add as many homeruns as we'd think given the ridiculously large dimensions of those parks.

[Derwood]

what year did they stop counting ground rule doubles as homeruns?

 

1929 or 1930, something around there I believe. Probably didn't add as many homeruns as we'd think given the ridiculously large dimensions of those parks.

 

you see a lot of balls bounce into the stand in RF at Fenway

[OleMissCub]

what year did they stop counting ground rule doubles as homeruns?

 

1929 or 1930, something around there I believe. Probably didn't add as many homeruns as we'd think given the ridiculously large dimensions of those parks.

 

you see a lot of balls bounce into the stand in RF at Fenway

 

It was bigger in the the old days. I don't think the right field line was 302 or whatever it is now, until the 40's.

[Derwood]

what year did they stop counting ground rule doubles as homeruns?

 

1929 or 1930, something around there I believe. Probably didn't add as many homeruns as we'd think given the ridiculously large dimensions of those parks.

 

you see a lot of balls bounce into the stand in RF at Fenway

 

It was bigger in the the old days. I don't think the right field line was 302 or whatever it is now, until the 40's.

 

i would check ballparks.com, but for some reason that site always crashes Firefox

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

what year did they stop counting ground rule doubles as homeruns?

 

1929 or 1930, something around there I believe. Probably didn't add as many homeruns as we'd think given the ridiculously large dimensions of those parks.

 

you see a lot of balls bounce into the stand in RF at Fenway

 

It was bigger in the the old days. I don't think the right field line was 302 or whatever it is now, until the 40's.

 

i would check ballparks.com, but for some reason that site always crashes Firefox

 

And for some reason when I go to rotoworld it crashes my firefox and that's starting to piss me off.

[Derwood]

Fenway:

 

Dimensions: Left field: 324 (1921), 320.5 (1926), 320 (1930), 318 (1931), 320 (1933), 312 (1934), 315 (1936) [figure revised to 310 in 1995]; left-center: 379 (1934); deep left-center at flagpole: 388 (1934); flagpole removed from field of play (1970); center field: 488 (1922), 468 (1930), 388.67 (1934), 389.67 (1954), 390 (current); deepest corner, just right of center: 550 (1922), 593 (1931), 420 (1934) [Note: 593 is cited in 1931-1933 Bluebooks; this could be a misprint.] right-center, just right of deepest corner where the bullpen begins: 380 (1938), 383 (1955); right of right-center: 405 (1939), 382 (1940), 381 (1942), 380 (1943); right field: 313.5 (1921), 358.5 (1926), 358 (1930), 325 (1931), 358 (1933), 334 (1934), 332 (1936), 322 (1938), 332 (1939), 304 (1940), 302 (1942); backstop: 68 (1912), 60 (1934); foul territory: smallest in the majors.

[OleMissCub]

Posted these before, but figured it wouldn't hurt to post them again. These are .gifs I made last summer of a lot of the all time greats either hitting or pitching.

 

Babe Ruth:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ruthswinging.gif

 

Satchel Paige:

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/882/satchgif4zz5.gif

 

Bob Feller:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7200/fellergifjb3.gif

 

Eiji Sawamura:

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/552/eijigh7.gif

 

 

Hank Aaron

 

Pete Alexander

 

Richie Ashburn

 

Ernie Banks

 

Wade Boggs

 

George Brett

 

Roy Campanella

 

Rod Carew

 

Steve Carlton

 

Orlando Cepeda

 

Roberto Clemente

 

Ty Cobb

 

Ty Cobb 2

 

Dizzy Dean

 

Dizzy Dean 2

 

Dizzy Dean 3

 

Joe Dimaggio

 

Larry Doby

 

Don Drysdale

 

Bob Feller

 

Whitey Ford

 

Frankie Frisch

 

Lou Gehrig

 

Lou Gehrig 2

 

Charlie Gehringer

 

Bob Gibson

 

Josh Gibson

 

Hank Greenberg

 

Lefty Grove

 

Tony Gwynn

 

Rogers Hornsby

 

Carl Hubbell

 

Joe Jackson

 

Ferguson Jenkins

 

Walter Johnson

 

Al Kaline

 

Ralph Kiner

 

Sandy Koufax

 

Bob Lemon

 

Mickey Mantle (lefty)

 

Mickey Mantle (righty)

 

Juan Marichal

 

Roger Maris

 

Christy Mathewson

 

Christy Mathewson 1

 

Christy Mathewson 2

 

Carl Mays

 

Willie Mays

 

Joe Medwick

 

Johnny Mize

 

Joe Morgan

 

Eddie Murray

 

Stan Musial

 

Hal Newhouser

 

Mel Ott

 

Satchel Paige

 

Jim Palmer

 

Gaylord Perry

 

Robin Roberts

 

Frank Robinson

 

Jackie Robinson

 

Babe Ruth

 

Babe Ruth 2

 

Nolan Ryan

 

Ron "PUT HIM IN THE HOF!" Santo

 

Eiji Sawamura

 

Mike Schmidt

 

Tom Seaver

 

Al Simmons

 

Duke Snider

 

Warren Spahn

 

Luis Tiant

 

Dazzy Vance

 

Honus Wagner

 

Buck Weaver

 

Hoyt Wilhelm

 

Billy Williams

 

Ted Williams

 

Cy Young (as an old man)

[ConstableRabbit]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1970.shtml#NLmvp

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1972.shtml#NLmvp

 

Billy Williams getting screwed on 2 MVP votes, or the catcher-factor?

[OleMissCub]

How often did the great hitters lead the league in respective stats?

 

I'm going to just go with 10 of the great hitters including Ruth, Williams, Hornsby, Bonds, Cobb, Aaron, Mantle, Mays, Musial, and A-Rod

 

Home Runs:

 

Ruth - 12 times

A-Rod - 5

Williams - 4

Mantle - 4

Mays - 4

Aaron - 4

Hornsby - 2

Bonds - 2

Cobb - 1

Musial - 0

 

SLG %:

 

Ruth - 13 times

Hornsby - 9

Cobb - 8

Williams - 8

Bonds - 7

Wagner - 6

Musial - 6

Mays - 5

Aaron - 4

Mantle - 4

 

OBP %:

 

Williams - 12 times

Bonds - 10

Ruth - 9

Hornsby - 9

Cobb - 7

Musial - 6

Mantle - 3

Mays - 2

Aaron - 0

A-Rod - 0

 

BA:

 

Cobb - 12 times

Hornsby - 8

Musial - 7

Williams - 6

Aaron - 2

Bonds - 2

Mays - 1

A-Rod - 1

Mantle - 1

Ruth - 1 (Harry Heilmann or Al Simmons usually edged him out of first in that category during his era.)

 

OPS+:

 

Ruth - 13 times

Hornsby - 12

Cobb - 11

Bonds - 9

Williams - 9

Mantle - 8

Mays - 6

Musial - 6

Aaron - 3

A-Rod - 2

[OleMissCub]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1970.shtml#NLmvp

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1972.shtml#NLmvp

 

Billy Williams getting screwed on 2 MVP votes, or the catcher-factor?

 

I smell Joe Morgan...

 

it's his fault.

[OleMissCub]

From a section about Joe Tinker in Bill James' "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame" book:

 

On April 16, 1906, Tinker got into a serious fight with several spectators following a game in Cincinnati. The fans were yelling insults at Chance, Tinker and Evers during the game, and the players answered in kind. After the game the spectators found the Chicago team bus, and continued to verbally abuse the players. According to The Sporting News, "Tinker lost his temper, jumped from the bus and attacked one of the men. The man was too much for the slight shortstop, however, and Tinker would have sustained a severe beating had not manager Chance come to his rescue. Chance threw the man off Tinker, and at that time was himself almost surrounded. He wielded his arms right and left and made his way to the bus, but by this time a great crowd had gathered. Luckily, the police got wind of the affair and three of them came running up...Tinker was to blame, to a certain extent, for losing his temper, and the spectators were blamed in general for following a conversation that started as a jest. Chance's intervention probably saved Tinker from serious injury and so helped stop what appeared to be a general fight among the spectators and other Cubs ballplayers that came out.

 

In his own time, Tinker was most famous for two things: his exceptional nerve, and his ability on the hit and run. He was the best hit-and-run man of his time. Today, he is remembered for an overlapping, but essentially different series of things - as part of a double play combination, for his ability to hit Christy Mathewson, and for the fact that he and Evers didn't speak, on or off the field, for several years.

 

Tinker and Evers would give entirely different accounts of the feud. According to Tinker, the Cubs were playing an exhibition game in Bedford, Indiana, in 1908 or 1909. The team always dressed at the hotel, and then went to the park in hacks. Evers got in a hack by himself and drove off, leaving Tinker and several others to wait until the hack returned for them. Tinker was angry, and when he got to the ballpark he asked Evers, "Who the hell are you that you've got to have a hack all to yourself?" Soon Evers and Tinker were rolling around in the grass near the on-deck circle, kicking bats this way and that, each groping for the other's vital organs. They were separated by teammates, and agreed afterward not to speak.

 

Evers' version of the battle was that one day in the spring of 1907 Tinker, standing no more than a few feet from him, fired the ball hard at him on a forceout, which broke his finger. Evers yelled at Tinker, and Tinker just laughed.

 

Both incidents probably did actually happen. The Cubs infielders, who were all perfectionists, would yell at one another whenever any play was not perfectly executed, and Evers was the loudest, and quickest, on the yell. Frank Chance once said that Evers was a great player, but he wished he had been an outfielder so that he wouldn't have had to listen to him.

 

And Tinker certainly had a temper. Tinker owned, and ran, a saloon. On September 9, 1908, in the middle of the greatest pennant race of all time, John Ginocchio, a fan, got into a fight with Tinker at Tinker's saloon, and filed charges against Joe, who he said had assaulted him. Tinker admitted hitting the man, but said that he did so in the belief that he was about to be attacked. He was later acquitted in court.

 

In any case, Tinker and Evers didn't speak for several years. After that moved into their thirties and began to calm down, they broke through, and became very good friends. They had, by then, been playing the infield together for ten years.

 

Tinker was a decent hitter, hitting around .260 most seasons, with around 70 RBI a year. He would steal 20 to 30 bases a year, and led Major League shortstops in fielding percentage in 1906, 1908, 1909, and 1911.

 

 

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/1672/tinkersci8.jpg

[ConstableRabbit]

Tinker is also in the HOF with a 95 OPS+

 

Ew.

[Clem Fandango]

Don't know if it was posted in here, but StumbledUpon this link just a moment ago:

 

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/blog.php/108stitches/article/unbreakabl/

 

The most unbreakable baseball records

[Joe_Cub]

Posted these before, but figured it wouldn't hurt to post them again. These are .gifs I made last summer of a lot of the all time greats either hitting or pitching.

 

missed these before, these are excellent

 

thanks!

[OleMissCub]

Don't know if it was posted in here, but StumbledUpon this link just a moment ago:

 

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/blog.php/108stitches/article/unbreakabl/

 

The most unbreakable baseball records

 

Chief Wilson’s 36 triples in a single season

 

Unlikely, but possible.

 

Ray Chapman’s single-season sacrifice bunt record (67 sac bunts)

 

Hell no. BTW, Chapman was the only player in history killed during a game.

 

Last thing he saw....a Carl Mays pitch:

 

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9610/carlmays2vl7.gif

 

75 complete games in one season, by Will White

 

Hell no. Although I don't really count baseball records before the turn of the 20th century. The modern record is 30 by Jack Chesbro in 1904. That's certainly unbreakable. Chesbro was a real good pitcher, but that was season was absolutely flukeish for him.

 

Ty Cobb’s career batting average (.366 or .367)

 

Very unlikely.

 

Nolan Ryan’s seven career no-hitters

 

Unlikely, but possible.

 

New York Yankees five straight World Series titles

 

Very unlikely.

 

Cy Young’s 511 victories and 749 complete games

 

Hell no.

 

Cal Ripken’s 2,632 conseuctive-games played streak

 

Unlikely, but possible.

 

Johnny Vander Meer’s two consecutive no-hitters

 

Very unlikely.

[Derwood]

no one will break Cy Young's career loss record either

[OleMissCub]

no one will break Cy Young's career loss record either

 

I agree, but it isn't near as unlikely as his wins record. Four men, Nolan Ryan, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, and Gaylord Perry, have come within 60 losses of his record just in the past 40 years.

 

Whilst no one has come within 157 wins of Young in that same time period.

[bukie]

Here's a question we've been pondering here at work today:

 

Assuming Pete Rose were HOF eligible, would he even be the best player not in the Hall? It may seem absurd to think Santo was actually better than Rose (who absolutely has Santo beat on longevity, for better or worse), but statistically Santo actually has an edge in non-counting stats.

 

Although, I'm the kind of person that thinks Rose is one of the most overrated players in baseball history, a glorified slap-hitter over the last 15 years of his career with a good eye.