Re: Josh Hamilton

[WindyCity]

So... bringing this to a present-day transaction discussion... what would it take to get Hamilton from Texas? Pie + some combination of pitching prospects? or would it be impossible to pry him away from the Rangers at this point?

 

I'm thinking Hill + Pie + Cedeno + Marmol.

 

Seriously. He's making no money and they just gave up Edinson Volquez for him and he's pretty much putting up MVP numbers.

 

Between Hill, Pi, Cedeno, and Marmol, 1 of the 4 is absolutely untouchable. Go on, guess which.

 

As for Hamilton, Im sure hes aquireable. I know hes making like league minimum, but with a team like the Rangers, who are in a constant rebuilding phase, theyd always be willing to work something out. It would cost us, but its not out of the question.

 

Teams rebuild with cheap productivity. Hamilton IS cheap productivity. Sure, nobody is untouchable, but the sheer amount a team would have to overpay to get cheap productivity away from a rebuilding team makes any reasonable possibility of a trade not worth it.

 

But if there getting several players that will help them in the future for one guy who will be well out of there price range when hes due for a contract if he keeps it up, surely theyd have some interest.

 

I would think so too -- the Cubs are in obvious win-now mode, and (aside from pitching) CF seems to be the area Hendry will most likely attempt to upgrade at the deadline. Hamilton would seem to be the best option out there if the Cubs are willing to over pay.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think it's time to let this one die. The Cubs never had Hamilton. Had the Reds not dealt for our pick, we just wouldn't have selected anyone. The Reds probably would have dealt with another club so they could take Hamilton. That would have been a preferable scenario simply because I wouldn't have ever had to read threads whining about the Cubs letting the Reds get Hamilton.

[rawaction]

The Cubs are huge idiots for not drafting a guy that had 50 ABs (At low A) over the previous 4 seasons.

 

IDIOTS!!

 

Or you could look at it as the Cubs are huge idiots for not drafting a guy that was the consensus #1 pick a few years back and one of the top 15 HS hitting prospects in the history of the game.

Taking a longshot flyer on a guy like Hamilton was completely incompatible with all of the other win-now moves the Cubs made last fall (hiring Piniella, signing Soriano Lilly DeRosa etc.). There was no way they could try and contend while committing a roster spot to a complete unknown.

 

I don't understand why people can't get that and just move on.

 

The Reds took the chance because they were in a position where they could afford to, and they hit the jackpot. Nice for them.

 

There are things that can be done to get around keeping a guy on your 25-man roster though. If the Cubs picked him and liked him well enough, they coulda traded something to Tampa in order to keep his rights. This happened when the As (I believe) took Eric Hinske and traded Scott Chiasson to the Cubs for Miguel Cairo in order to allow Hinske to go to the A's minor leagues.

[davearm2]

The Cubs are huge idiots for not drafting a guy that had 50 ABs (At low A) over the previous 4 seasons.

 

IDIOTS!!

 

Or you could look at it as the Cubs are huge idiots for not drafting a guy that was the consensus #1 pick a few years back and one of the top 15 HS hitting prospects in the history of the game.

Taking a longshot flyer on a guy like Hamilton was completely incompatible with all of the other win-now moves the Cubs made last fall (hiring Piniella, signing Soriano Lilly DeRosa etc.). There was no way they could try and contend while committing a roster spot to a complete unknown.

 

I don't understand why people can't get that and just move on.

 

The Reds took the chance because they were in a position where they could afford to, and they hit the jackpot. Nice for them.

 

There are things that can be done to get around keeping a guy on your 25-man roster though. If the Cubs picked him and liked him well enough, they coulda traded something to Tampa in order to keep his rights. This happened when the As (I believe) took Eric Hinske and traded Scott Chiasson to the Cubs for Miguel Cairo in order to allow Hinske to go to the A's minor leagues.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but before ever dealing with Tampa, Hamilton would've had to pass through waivers first. Any other team could've claimed him off of waivers and assumed the Rule 5 conditions. Seems obvious that the Reds would've put in a claim... and probably several teams would've, after the spring he had.

 

If you want to build a case for what the Cubs should've/could've done, it's that they could've taken the guy in the Rule 5, played him through the spring to build value, and then traded him before opening day. Sort of day-trading in a ballplayer.

[treyZz]

He is the best player in baseball right now. I would argue that all night with anyone. Look at what he is doing. He is a nightmare for every single pitcher in the AL.

 

• Ranks 5th in AL in BA (.319)

• Ranks 1st in AL in HR (11)

• Ranks 1st in AL in RBI (50)

• Ranks 9th in AL in R (28)

• Ranks 1st in AL in SLG (.604)

• Ranks 4th in AL in OPS (.973)

 

He is a prodigy.

[imb]

it's hard for me to rank a guy who is 4th in his own league in OPS as the best player in baseball

[treyZz]

it's hard for me to rank a guy who is 4th in his own league in OPS as the best player in baseball

 

Plays a premium defensive position and is a great CFer.

 

1st in slugging

1st in homers

Has 50 RBI and it's May 20th.

 

Top 5 in everything else other than Runs.

 

He is the only reason Texas is not 15 games under .500

[imb]

it's hard for me to rank a guy who is 4th in his own league in OPS as the best player in baseball

 

Plays a premium defensive position and is a great CFer.

 

1st in slugging

1st in homers

Has 50 RBI and it's May 20th.

 

Top 5 in everything else other than Runs.

 

He is the only reason Texas is not 15 games under .500

 

soto has a higher OPS at a tougher position

 

lance berkman's OPS is almost a full 0.3 points higher

[bukie]

it's hard for me to rank a guy who is 4th in his own league in OPS as the best player in baseball

 

Plays a premium defensive position and is a great CFer.

 

1st in slugging

1st in homers

Has 50 RBI and it's May 20th.

 

Top 5 in everything else other than Runs.

 

He is the only reason Texas is not 15 games under .500

 

soto has a higher OPS at a tougher position

 

lance berkman's OPS is almost a full 0.3 points higher

 

One could arguably put together a full lineup of players better than Hamilton this year:

 

Berkman

Chipper Jones

Furcal

Uggla

Soto

McLouth

Pujols

Chase Utley

 

 

Wow, that's a lot of NL guys. Not to take anything away from Hamilton, who has been fantastic. He just hasn't been the best player in baseball.

[treyZz]

it's hard for me to rank a guy who is 4th in his own league in OPS as the best player in baseball

 

Plays a premium defensive position and is a great CFer.

 

1st in slugging

1st in homers

Has 50 RBI and it's May 20th.

 

Top 5 in everything else other than Runs.

 

He is the only reason Texas is not 15 games under .500

 

soto has a higher OPS at a tougher position

 

lance berkman's OPS is almost a full 0.3 points higher

 

Soto has a lower average

2 less dingers

17 less RBI

7 less runs

 

Hamilton is better than ANYONE we have in the middle of our order.

 

Berkman is having a historic season, hits in a better lineup with much better protection, and still has less RBIs than Hamilton.

 

Put Hamilton in between Tejada, Lee, & Pence and his stats would be eerily similar to Berkmans.

[David]

it's hard for me to rank a guy who is 4th in his own league in OPS as the best player in baseball

 

Plays a premium defensive position and is a great CFer.

 

1st in slugging

1st in homers

Has 50 RBI and it's May 20th.

 

Top 5 in everything else other than Runs.

 

He is the only reason Texas is not 15 games under .500

 

soto has a higher OPS at a tougher position

 

lance berkman's OPS is almost a full 0.3 points higher

 

Soto has a lower average

2 less dingers

17 less RBI

7 less runs

 

Hamilton is better than ANYONE we have in the middle of our order.

 

Berkman is having a historic season, hits in a better lineup with much better protection, and still has less RBIs than Hamilton.

 

Put Hamilton in between Tejada, Lee, & Pence and his stats would be eerily similar to Berkmans.

 

lol a bunch of counting stats and the worst rate stat

[bukie]

Soto has a lower average

2 less dingers

17 less RBI

7 less runs

 

Hamilton is better than ANYONE we have in the middle of our order.

 

Berkman is having a historic season, hits in a better lineup with much better protection, and still has less RBIs than Hamilton.

 

Put Hamilton in between Tejada, Lee, & Pence and his stats would be eerily similar to Berkmans.

 

Soto has a higher OBP and SLG, more HR/AB, and 10 more walks in 4 fewer games than Hamilton.

 

Texas has a better offensive lineup than Houston. Hamilton has Milton Bradley protecting him, who has been actually better offensively than Hamilton.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

the ballpark helps...

 

home:

385/417/736/1.154

 

road:

253/320/473/793

[imb]

I don't know why I'm even on this track

y'all ain't even on my level

I'm going to let my little homies ride on you

b made ass Bad Boys bs

[Ding Dong Johnson]

fyi, Geo's splits are sexier

 

home:

291/412/582/995

 

road:

348/434/652/1.086

[Tracer Bullet]

the ballpark helps...

 

home:

385/417/736/1.154

 

road:

253/320/473/793

 

BUT HE HAS THE MOST RBIS

[SouthSideRyan]

The Cubs are huge idiots for not drafting a guy that had 50 ABs (At low A) over the previous 4 seasons.

 

IDIOTS!!

 

Or you could look at it as the Cubs are huge idiots for not drafting a guy that was the consensus #1 pick a few years back and one of the top 15 HS hitting prospects in the history of the game.

 

Hell, Wayne Krivsky is the greatest GM of all time for coming up with this genius plan. Outmanuevering every other GM to secure the pick from the Cubs, knowing how every team behind the Cubs was dying to grab Hamilton and get their free all star.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think it's time to let this one die. The Cubs never had Hamilton. Had the Reds not dealt for our pick, we just wouldn't have selected anyone. The Reds probably would have dealt with another club so they could take Hamilton. That would have been a preferable scenario simply because I wouldn't have ever had to read threads whining about the Cubs letting the Reds get Hamilton.

 

Nah, then the Cubs would be idiots for NOT EVEN TAKING ANYBODY!!! I MEAN WHO PASSES IN A DRAFT??? MIGHT AS WELL TAKE A GUY, THEN IF HE DOESN'T PAN OUT YOU ONLY LOSE 25K STUPID CHEAP TRIB!!! YOU LET YOUR DIVISION RIVAL GRAB AN MVP BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY ON HIM!!

[bukie]

I think it's serious revisionist history to blame the Cubs for not taking Hamilton 2 winters ago. He was on nobody's radar (except the Reds, apparently), and based on his body of work to that point in the minors, nobody really thought he could stick on a roster all year, anyway. The Reds took a flyer and it worked out for them. The Cubs were never in the picture.

[Guest]

If Hamilton didn't do anything last year, nobody would be complaining about how the Cubs should have kept Hamilton. As others have said, it was a risk for the Reds and it worked out in a big way for them.

[David]

I don't know why I'm even on this track

y'all ain't even on my level

I'm going to let my little homies ride on you

b made ass Bad Boys bs

 

 

get out the way yo, get out the way yo

[rawaction]

What people are not getting is that though it was a long-shot for Hamilton to perform the way he did, the Cubs had a chance to do the same thing the Reds did and draft him in the Rule 5. Whether it was logical for the Cubs or not. They didn't do it. And they would be better off if they did draft Hamilton. Every team would have been. It doesn't matter that the Cubs traded the pick that became Hamilton. They passed on him, as did every other team in baseball. Every MLB team other than the Reds made a bad decision. 29 wrongs don't make a right.

[SouthSideRyan]

What people are not getting is that though it was a long-shot for Hamilton to perform the way he did, the Cubs had a chance to do the same thing the Reds did and draft him in the Rule 5. Whether it was logical for the Cubs or not. They didn't do it. And they would be better off if they did draft Hamilton. Every team would have been. It doesn't matter that the Cubs traded the pick that became Hamilton. They passed on him, as did every other team in baseball. Every MLB team other than the Reds made a bad decision. 29 wrongs don't make a right.

 

Well then it becomes the argument of complaining about every time a free agent the Cubs didn't sign performs well. You don't see people angry at the Cubs for not signing Barry Bonds in '93, but if Hamilton goes on to have a good career, there will be people screaming about stupid management trading Josh Hamilton back in '07. It's annoying because I can already see it happening, and I don't suffer fools well.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

So, how long before Hamilton gets back on the nose candy? Any bets?

[jersey cubs fan]

If Hamilton didn't do anything last year, nobody would be complaining about how the Cubs should have kept Hamilton. As others have said, it was a risk for the Reds and it worked out in a big way for them.

 

It was hardly a risk for the Reds.

 

The fact that no team picking ahead of the Cubs picked Hamilton does not excuse them from having the foresight to picking him. The complaints about them trading him are meaningless, but when a player of that talent is available it's the personel people's job to find them.