Is it time to make Cedeno a starter?

[Abe Frohman]

I'm a Theriot fan because I love LSU and what he did there. I want him to be a good contributor, but the big picture for me is I love the Cubs. If Cedeno is better, I want him on SS. He has better tools, and lots more potential.

 

Theriot is hot right now, but his hits are soft. Lots of seeing eye singles and doubles that dribble down the line. Don't get me wrong, that works for me - and I think he'll do it more consistantly than Cedeno will put one in the seats with the bags juiced. That may be better in the long run - but as long as Ronny is swinging the bat with theatrics - you HAVE to keep him in the lineup. Even if it costs Theriot AB's.

[brinoch]

if lou benches pie to play the hot hand in reed johnson, he better do the same to theriot to play cedeno.

 

Might have to wait seeing how hot Riot has been.

 

There's no need to bench Theriot since there's a spot for both in the infield while Soriano is on the DL. DeRosa is going to continue playing LF most likely. That gives Lou the option play them both and bench Fontenot, who hasn't been hitting all that well. Frankly, I think the only reason Fontenot has been playing is because he's left-handed.

[SouthSideRyan]

if lou benches pie to play the hot hand in reed johnson, he better do the same to theriot to play cedeno.

 

Might have to wait seeing how hot Riot has been.

 

No need to bench Theriot since there's a spot for both in the infield while Soriano is on the DL.

 

Agreed, as shocked as I am to see me type it, I'd like to see Cedeno, Theriot, and DeRosa playing together for a few games.

[brinoch]

if lou benches pie to play the hot hand in reed johnson, he better do the same to theriot to play cedeno.

 

Might have to wait seeing how hot Riot has been.

 

No need to bench Theriot since there's a spot for both in the infield while Soriano is on the DL.

 

Agreed, as shocked as I am to see me type it, I'd like to see Cedeno, Theriot, and DeRosa playing together for a few games.

 

Me too. And, as luck would have it, we'll be facing some lefties here in the next few days.

 

I will say that I think, long-term, the best offensive team (with Soriano on the DL) is:

 

Soto

Lee

DeRosa

Ramirez

Cedeno

Murton

Pie/Johnson (platoon)

Fukudome

 

That said, as others have said, it might be that Theriot was just a crappy switch hitter and it depressed his numbers (anyone have his MiLB R/L splits?). Maybe he was tired last year from playing (doubtful). Maybe he figured something out (Possible to probable -- this does happen; see Cedeno and Soto for examples). Whatever it is, it's pretty certain that Theriot and Cedeno are both playing well right now, and I'm enjoying it.

[NCCubFan]

Once Soriano returns (May 1) I'd use Theriot, Cedeno, and DeRosa in a three-way rotation at 2B and SS to keep all three fresh. Theriot at SS and DeRosa at 2B one day, then Cedeno at SS and DeRosa at 2B, then Theriot at SS and Cedeno at 2B (or some variation of that order). Whichever of the three isn't starting in a given game could be used as a pinch-hitter or in a double switch.

[imb]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

 

lol, you're still holding on to theriot, huh?

[chuckywang]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

DeRosa - .929

Cedeno - .958

Theriot - .893

 

You're gonna have to bench a productive player no matter how you look at it.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

 

lol, you're still holding on to theriot, huh?

 

it has nothing to do with that. teams with a 14-6 record and a SS who is hitting the ball well don't just bench that shortstop and cause problems in the clubhouse. you stick with what's working.

 

i like the idea of allowing cedeno to rotate in more if he continues to produce at a good level. theriot struggled (probably wore down) the last month or two of last season, and derosa has also seen a decline in his numbers after the all-star break in each of the last two years. as long as you've got three relatively productive players, use somewhat of a 3-man rotation (with derosa having the fewest days off probably) and keep them fresh for the whole year. that way you can also get more of a handle on whether cedeno actually is a good player.

[RedFlash]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

 

lol, you're still holding on to theriot, huh?

 

it has nothing to do with that. teams with a 14-6 record and a SS who is hitting the ball well don't just bench that shortstop and cause problems in the clubhouse. you stick with what's working.

 

i like the idea of allowing cedeno to rotate in more if he continues to produce at a good level. theriot struggled (probably wore down) the last month or two of last season, and derosa has also seen a decline in his numbers after the all-star break in each of the last two years. as long as you've got three relatively productive players, use somewhat of a 3-man rotation (with derosa having the fewest days off probably) and keep them fresh for the whole year. that way you can also get more of a handle on whether cedeno actually is a good player.

 

I like the rotation of Cedeno in and out with DeRo and Theriot. Because by the time DeRo contract is up, then the Cubs should no for a FACT what kind of player Cedeno is, and will be comfortable giving him a starting spot in 2010, prolly at SS with Theriot moving to 2B.

[Tracer Bullet]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

 

lol, you're still holding on to theriot, huh?

 

it has nothing to do with that. teams with a 14-6 record and a SS who is hitting the ball well don't just bench that shortstop and cause problems in the clubhouse. you stick with what's working.

 

i like the idea of allowing cedeno to rotate in more if he continues to produce at a good level. theriot struggled (probably wore down) the last month or two of last season, and derosa has also seen a decline in his numbers after the all-star break in each of the last two years. as long as you've got three relatively productive players, use somewhat of a 3-man rotation (with derosa having the fewest days off probably) and keep them fresh for the whole year. that way you can also get more of a handle on whether cedeno actually is a good player.

 

I like the rotation of Cedeno in and out with DeRo and Theriot. Because by the time DeRo contract is up, then the Cubs should no for a FACT what kind of player Cedeno is, and will be comfortable giving him a starting spot in 2010, prolly at SS with Theriot moving to 2B.

 

I hope not. If Theriot is starting anywhere for this team in 2010, I'm going to be very pissed off.

[Tracer Bullet]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

 

lol, you're still holding on to theriot, huh?

 

it has nothing to do with that. teams with a 14-6 record and a SS who is hitting the ball well don't just bench that shortstop and cause problems in the clubhouse. you stick with what's working.

 

i like the idea of allowing cedeno to rotate in more if he continues to produce at a good level. theriot struggled (probably wore down) the last month or two of last season, and derosa has also seen a decline in his numbers after the all-star break in each of the last two years. as long as you've got three relatively productive players, use somewhat of a 3-man rotation (with derosa having the fewest days off probably) and keep them fresh for the whole year. that way you can also get more of a handle on whether cedeno actually is a good player.

 

You think Theriot will be a clubhouse cancer if he's not starting?

 

Ronny's younger, he's more talented, and he's playing better right now (which has always been the 1 thing people have used to justified Theriot starting over Ronny). Given their ages and their expected future performance, it's just crazy not to keep Ronny in the lineup - and not in a weird triangle rotation. Just play Cedeno and DeRosa every day with Theriot getting spot starts.

[17 Seconds]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

But you bench a guy OPSing .957? Neat.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

 

lol, you're still holding on to theriot, huh?

 

it has nothing to do with that. teams with a 14-6 record and a SS who is hitting the ball well don't just bench that shortstop and cause problems in the clubhouse. you stick with what's working.

 

i like the idea of allowing cedeno to rotate in more if he continues to produce at a good level. theriot struggled (probably wore down) the last month or two of last season, and derosa has also seen a decline in his numbers after the all-star break in each of the last two years. as long as you've got three relatively productive players, use somewhat of a 3-man rotation (with derosa having the fewest days off probably) and keep them fresh for the whole year. that way you can also get more of a handle on whether cedeno actually is a good player.

 

You think Theriot will be a clubhouse cancer if he's not starting?

 

Ronny's younger, he's more talented, and he's playing better right now (which has always been the 1 thing people have used to justified Theriot starting over Ronny). Given their ages and their expected future performance, it's just crazy not to keep Ronny in the lineup - and not in a weird triangle rotation. Just play Cedeno and DeRosa every day with Theriot getting spot starts.

 

no, i don't know that he will be a clubhouse cancer if he's not starting, but it's possible. plus it sends a bad message to the team. if they're going to start cedeno over theriot based on cedeno's .957 OPS, while ignoring the fact that theriot is hitting .338 (and by the way, the difference in their EqA is .001), then why shouldn't pie be looking over his shoulder? if rich hill has one or two average starts, he should start worrying about whether lieber, marshall or gallagher will take his place if they're throwing well?

 

theriot may play his way out of the lineup at some point, but there's no reason to make a change when he's playing well.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

But you bench a guy OPSing .957? Neat.

 

bench players don't get benched, they get returned to the spot they were already occupying.

[17 Seconds]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

But you bench a guy OPSing .957? Neat.

 

bench players don't get benched, they get returned to the spot they were already occupying.

 

That really makes no sense, but okay. Who has been the starter the past 2 games?

 

Anyways, this won't be an issue until Soriano comes back, and at least one of Theriot/Cedeno will probably have cooled off by then. Until then, Derosa needs to be in left, Cedeno at short, and Theriot at second.

[soapy]

Once Soriano returns (May 1) I'd use Theriot, Cedeno, and DeRosa in a three-way rotation at 2B and SS to keep all three fresh. Theriot at SS and DeRosa at 2B one day, then Cedeno at SS and DeRosa at 2B, then Theriot at SS and Cedeno at 2B (or some variation of that order). Whichever of the three isn't starting in a given game could be used as a pinch-hitter or in a double switch.

 

i agree with this. i'd do this until somebody (likely Cedeno or Theriot) comes back down to earth. i think Cedeno is the more likely long-term answer, but Theriot has been producing as well. Cedeno, Theriot and Derosa can get plenty of time between 2B and SS, not to mention Derosa still likely getting some time in LF or RF to spell those guys.

Edited April 23, 2008 by soapy

[Tracer Bullet]

yeah let's bench theriot and his .893 OPS.

 

He's got a ways to catch Cedeno's .957.

 

doesn't matter... you don't bench a guy OPS'ing .893.

 

 

lol, you're still holding on to theriot, huh?

 

it has nothing to do with that. teams with a 14-6 record and a SS who is hitting the ball well don't just bench that shortstop and cause problems in the clubhouse. you stick with what's working.

 

i like the idea of allowing cedeno to rotate in more if he continues to produce at a good level. theriot struggled (probably wore down) the last month or two of last season, and derosa has also seen a decline in his numbers after the all-star break in each of the last two years. as long as you've got three relatively productive players, use somewhat of a 3-man rotation (with derosa having the fewest days off probably) and keep them fresh for the whole year. that way you can also get more of a handle on whether cedeno actually is a good player.

 

You think Theriot will be a clubhouse cancer if he's not starting?

 

Ronny's younger, he's more talented, and he's playing better right now (which has always been the 1 thing people have used to justified Theriot starting over Ronny). Given their ages and their expected future performance, it's just crazy not to keep Ronny in the lineup - and not in a weird triangle rotation. Just play Cedeno and DeRosa every day with Theriot getting spot starts.

 

no, i don't know that he will be a clubhouse cancer if he's not starting, but it's possible. plus it sends a bad message to the team. if they're going to start cedeno over theriot based on cedeno's .957 OPS, while ignoring the fact that theriot is hitting .338 (and by the way, the difference in their EqA is .001), then why shouldn't pie be looking over his shoulder? if rich hill has one or two average starts, he should start worrying about whether lieber, marshall or gallagher will take his place if they're throwing well?

 

theriot may play his way out of the lineup at some point, but there's no reason to make a change when he's playing well.

 

Cedeno's the better player. He's playing better now and likely to do so going forward. He gives the Cubs the best chance to win. That isn't true with any replacement for Pie or Hill. Those are the 2 best guys for their particular positions as well. You just have either a weird affinity for Theriot or prejudice against Cedeno. I don't know which, but I don't care. It's not little league. You play the guys that give you the best chance to win. Cedeno is that guy now and also gives us the best chance long term.

[Backtobanks]

While we're all enjoying this great start, let's not forget that it's still early and we have a long way to go. Since everybody is hitting, I don't think we should be talking about replacing anybody 3 weeks into the season. It would be different if Theriot was slumping and Cedeno was hitting, but that's not the case.

[Tracer Bullet]

While we're all enjoying this great start, let's not forget that it's still early and we have a long way to go. Since everybody is hitting, I don't think we should be talking about replacing anybody 3 weeks into the season. It would be different if Theriot was slumping and Cedeno was hitting, but that's not the case.

 

I do. Cedeno has played great and looks good in his ABs. I think he should have more of them.

[mul21]

no, i don't know that he will be a clubhouse cancer if he's not starting, but it's possible. plus it sends a bad message to the team. if they're going to start cedeno over theriot based on cedeno's .957 OPS, while ignoring the fact that theriot is hitting .338 (and by the way, the difference in their EqA is .001), then why shouldn't pie be looking over his shoulder? if rich hill has one or two average starts, he should start worrying about whether lieber, marshall or gallagher will take his place if they're throwing well?

 

theriot may play his way out of the lineup at some point, but there's no reason to make a change when he's playing well.

 

I think these are totally different situations. On one hand you've got Cedeno, a young guy who may be coming into his own as a productive ML player, and on the other you've got veterans who you know about what you're going to get out of them. It's totally different to give a young guy a starting spot over another somewhat young guy than it is to bump a young guy like Felix or Hill for somebody like Johnson or Lieber on a permanent basis. You've also got a huge difference in ceilings of the young payers you're talking about at this point in time.

[TheDude]

if lou benches pie to play the hot hand in reed johnson, he better do the same to theriot to play cedeno.

The situations are not the same. Theriot is also the hot hand. Now if Theriot had an OBP under .300, you have a valid comparison.

[Keener98]

I just hope if Lou does have Cedeno and Theriot in the lineup at the same time until Soriano comes back, that he does the smart thing and puts Ronny at SS and Theriot at 2nd. I know a couple games already this year Ronny has started at 2nd while Theriot was at SS, and well, thats pretty ignorant. Cedenos arm and range are wasted at 2nd base. The other night during Z's start when Reyes hit into the DP by an eyelash, Im about 100% positive that had Theriot been the one making that throw, Reyes is safe.

[CubColtPacer]

Thankfully the Cubs don't have to make this decision today. 4 out of the next 5 days are against left-handers. You start them both against those left-handers, and then you see where their production is at the end of that.

 

I would agree that it's bad precedent to bench Theriot just because of Cedeno's starts though. Should Dempster be worried about losing his job right now because Lieber has a 1.64 ERA in the bullpen and Gallagher is throwing really well in AAA? No, because Dempster is producing well. A starter should not have to constantly worry about their job even if they go out and give you very good production. The Cubs are already too reactionary to switching starters. There is no need to make that even worse. You are basically telling Theriot "Well, we trust you to be the starter. But if the guy behind you does well, you'll be benched no matter how well you're playing". IMO, that's a much worse policy to have than to hold over a player that they better play well or else they'll be benched quickly, which is a policy that many people have complained about.

 

In this case, there's still plenty of ways that the Cubs can give him at-bats until the time they'll need him to start more, if it be an injury or Theriot starting to slump. Right now, I wouldn't mind if Cedeno became the supersub after Soriano comes back (he'll get starts when either 2nd, SS, 3B, LF, or RF has a day off, either by him moving to that position or him playing 2nd and DeRosa moving there).

[CuseCubFan69]

Thankfully the Cubs don't have to make this decision today. 4 out of the next 5 days are against left-handers. You start them both against those left-handers, and then you see where their production is at the end of that.

 

I would agree that it's bad precedent to bench Theriot just because of Cedeno's starts though. Should Dempster be worried about losing his job right now because Lieber has a 1.64 ERA in the bullpen and Gallagher is throwing really well in AAA? No, because Dempster is producing well. A starter should not have to constantly worry about their job even if they go out and give you very good production. The Cubs are already too reactionary to switching starters. There is no need to make that even worse. You are basically telling Theriot "Well, we trust you to be the starter. But if the guy behind you does well, you'll be benched no matter how well you're playing". IMO, that's a much worse policy to have than to hold over a player that they better play well or else they'll be benched quickly, which is a policy that many people have complained about.

 

In this case, there's still plenty of ways that the Cubs can give him at-bats until the time they'll need him to start more, if it be an injury or Theriot starting to slump. Right now, I wouldn't mind if Cedeno became the supersub after Soriano comes back (he'll get starts when either 2nd, SS, 3B, LF, or RF has a day off, either by him moving to that position or him playing 2nd and DeRosa moving there).

 

 

With the lefties coming up wouldn't you give Murton some AB's in left and swing DeRosa over to 2nd? I'd keep rotating these guys until one cools down and then play the more talented players more.

[biittner77]

I'm curiuos to see what they do against the 1st RH starter they face. If they play Pie in CF- as they should- that still leaves 4 guys Cedeno, Johnson, Derosa and Theriot for 3 spots. That's not even counting Murton. So who's the odd man out?

 

Theriot

Pie

Lee

Ramirez

Fukudome

Derosa- LF

Soto

Cedeno