Is it time to make Cedeno a starter?

[Colin Wyers]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

The argument against Ryan Theriot is not that he will never, ever do anything, and will hit .000/.000/.000 with zero putouts and zero assists. The argument is that over the course of a full season, Ryan Theriot is unlikely to be especially productive at shortstop - his median forecast is basically right at replacement level, and his high-end forecast still falls short of league average production from his position. He will occasionally have good days, sure - I'm sure I can find some game-winning hits from Neifi Perez if I go back and check the play-by-play records. But over time, the likelihood is that the bad days will outnumber the good.

 

That said. If for whatever reason you will only be satisfied with Ryan Theriot's detractors if we say bad things about him even on the good days - I am there. I am so there. If that's really all that you need to... well, I have no idea why this seems to bother you, but if it does, I will go ahead and provide that valuable service to you. So far as I am capable, I will go ahead and find a way to communicate to you, personally, Ryan Theriot's worth as a starting shortstop - in game threads, in postgame discussions... any time, any place. You're welcome in advance.

[CubColtPacer]

Let's see, possibly game-losing defensive gaffe and another failure to get a runner in from third with less than two outs.

 

Someone remind me how Theriot always gets the little things right?

 

 

 

Get the pitchforks out. This year's Jacque Jones just made a mistake. Let the avalanche begin.

 

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

I've taken a back seat to who should actually start since both are playing well and the team is playing well, but do you honestly believe that the ball Theriot hit in the 8th inning was a hard hit ball? That's not the way I saw it. And I will admit that Theriot has hit some balls hard these past few weeks.

 

I would tend to agree with that. The 1st inning DP was a hard hit ball that Tulo made a beautiful play on. The 8th inning ball was unlucky to be a DP, but was a pretty soft line drive.

 

Theriot's got to be careful though. His leash is shortening, and even hitting into bad luck is probably not going to help him much in Lou's eyes with Cedeno playing so well. These next 2 weeks will be very important for him. I'm just happy Cedeno is playing well, because that means Theriot either plays well (which helps the ballclub) or is replaced (which also helps the club).

[CyHawk_Cub]

Let's see, possibly game-losing defensive gaffe and another failure to get a runner in from third with less than two outs.

 

Someone remind me how Theriot always gets the little things right?

 

 

 

Get the pitchforks out. This year's Jacque Jones just made a mistake. Let the avalanche begin.

 

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

I've taken a back seat to who should actually start since both are playing well and the team is playing well, but do you honestly believe that the ball Theriot hit in the 8th inning was a hard hit ball? That's not the way I saw it. And I will admit that Theriot has hit some balls hard these past few weeks.

 

I would tend to agree with that. The 1st inning DP was a hard hit ball that Tulo made a beautiful play on. The 8th inning ball was unlucky to be a DP, but was a pretty soft line drive.

 

Theriot's got to be careful though. His leash is shortening, and even hitting into bad luck is probably not going to help him much in Lou's eyes with Cedeno playing so well. These next 2 weeks will be very important for him. I'm just happy Cedeno is playing well, because that means Theriot either plays well (which helps the ballclub) or is replaced (which also helps the club).

 

Well put... Much more palatable to some than saying "I hope Riot struggles so Ronny gets the job."

[TruffleShuffle]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

I just brought it up because the error and the "not getting the run in from third" was brought up by the angry, torch-and-pitchfork-wielding cedeno crowd.

[Skyballer]

If Cedeno doesn't start getting starts now, what exactly is necessary for him to ever start?

 

The arguments before were:

- Theriot is more of a sure thing, we can't afford 2006 Cedeno in the lineup again

- He was awful when he made the Major Leagues at age 7, he may be a AAAA guy

 

So now we have Cedeno getting some playing time and making the absolute most of it. He is raking, hitting for a high average, extra base hits, as well as having some outstanding at bats showing selectivity and taking some walks. He's made some stellar defensive plays that Theriot can only make in Second Life(if his character can fly), while limiting any snafus to the point where they are no more prevalent than Theriot being unable to make a play because of his physical limitations. If you don't start him now, then when? The whole "waiting for Theriot to cool down" is a cop out. The argument was never dependent on Theriot's performance before, and making it so now is disingenuous.

Really? If someone is to be benched, his numbers shouldn't be included in that decision. That's disingenous.

[Tracer Bullet]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

I just brought it up because the error and the "not getting the run in from third" was brought up by the angry, torch-and-pitchfork-wielding cedeno crowd.

 

It was brought up b/c he screwed up. The same reason people were ragging on ARam today for some bad ABs. They were probably pretty happy yesterday when he hit the HR, but lots of people were ragging on ARam a few innings earlier for the bad AB. Many fans are "what have you done for me lately." Problem for Ryan is he has a lot of bad days.

 

BTW - Colin Wyers is my new favorite poster. And not just b/c we share an animosity towards Theriot starting at SS.

[Mizzou]

I'm really getting tired of seeing Fontenot get significant playing time. There are three better options than him to play 2B at this point. He quite simply shouldn't be starting.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

The argument against Ryan Theriot is not that he will never, ever do anything, and will hit .000/.000/.000 with zero putouts and zero assists. The argument is that over the course of a full season, Ryan Theriot is unlikely to be especially productive at shortstop - his median forecast is basically right at replacement level, and his high-end forecast still falls short of league average production from his position. He will occasionally have good days, sure - I'm sure I can find some game-winning hits from Neifi Perez if I go back and check the play-by-play records. But over time, the likelihood is that the bad days will outnumber the good.

 

That said. If for whatever reason you will only be satisfied with Ryan Theriot's detractors if we say bad things about him even on the good days - I am there. I am so there. If that's really all that you need to... well, I have no idea why this seems to bother you, but if it does, I will go ahead and provide that valuable service to you. So far as I am capable, I will go ahead and find a way to communicate to you, personally, Ryan Theriot's worth as a starting shortstop - in game threads, in postgame discussions... any time, any place. You're welcome in advance.

 

I think I am in love with this post!

 

Welcome to the boards.

[WilcoFan]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

The argument against Ryan Theriot is not that he will never, ever do anything, and will hit .000/.000/.000 with zero putouts and zero assists. The argument is that over the course of a full season, Ryan Theriot is unlikely to be especially productive at shortstop - his median forecast is basically right at replacement level, and his high-end forecast still falls short of league average production from his position. He will occasionally have good days, sure - I'm sure I can find some game-winning hits from Neifi Perez if I go back and check the play-by-play records. But over time, the likelihood is that the bad days will outnumber the good.

 

That said. If for whatever reason you will only be satisfied with Ryan Theriot's detractors if we say bad things about him even on the good days - I am there. I am so there. If that's really all that you need to... well, I have no idea why this seems to bother you, but if it does, I will go ahead and provide that valuable service to you. So far as I am capable, I will go ahead and find a way to communicate to you, personally, Ryan Theriot's worth as a starting shortstop - in game threads, in postgame discussions... any time, any place. You're welcome in advance.

 

I think I am in love with this post!

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

Me too, because just what these boards need is more condescending posts.

[CoolHandLuke]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

The argument against Ryan Theriot is not that he will never, ever do anything, and will hit .000/.000/.000 with zero putouts and zero assists. The argument is that over the course of a full season, Ryan Theriot is unlikely to be especially productive at shortstop - his median forecast is basically right at replacement level, and his high-end forecast still falls short of league average production from his position. He will occasionally have good days, sure - I'm sure I can find some game-winning hits from Neifi Perez if I go back and check the play-by-play records. But over time, the likelihood is that the bad days will outnumber the good.

 

That said. If for whatever reason you will only be satisfied with Ryan Theriot's detractors if we say bad things about him even on the good days - I am there. I am so there. If that's really all that you need to... well, I have no idea why this seems to bother you, but if it does, I will go ahead and provide that valuable service to you. So far as I am capable, I will go ahead and find a way to communicate to you, personally, Ryan Theriot's worth as a starting shortstop - in game threads, in postgame discussions... any time, any place. You're welcome in advance.

 

I think I am in love with this post!

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

Me too, because just what these boards need is more condescending posts.

 

Somebody has to fill the Meph-void.

 

Hopefully Colin loves the draft, because Meph was almost essential on draft day.

[ChiCubsFan]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

The argument against Ryan Theriot is not that he will never, ever do anything, and will hit .000/.000/.000 with zero putouts and zero assists. The argument is that over the course of a full season, Ryan Theriot is unlikely to be especially productive at shortstop - his median forecast is basically right at replacement level, and his high-end forecast still falls short of league average production from his position. He will occasionally have good days, sure - I'm sure I can find some game-winning hits from Neifi Perez if I go back and check the play-by-play records. But over time, the likelihood is that the bad days will outnumber the good.

 

That said. If for whatever reason you will only be satisfied with Ryan Theriot's detractors if we say bad things about him even on the good days - I am there. I am so there. If that's really all that you need to... well, I have no idea why this seems to bother you, but if it does, I will go ahead and provide that valuable service to you. So far as I am capable, I will go ahead and find a way to communicate to you, personally, Ryan Theriot's worth as a starting shortstop - in game threads, in postgame discussions... any time, any place. You're welcome in advance.

 

I think I am in love with this post!

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

Me too, because just what these boards need is more condescending posts.

 

Somebody has to fill the Meph-void.

 

Hopefully Colin loves the draft, because Meph was almost essential on draft day.

 

That post wasn't very condescending at all. I thought it was well thought out and delivered in a way that utilized humor and hyperbole to make a point, but didn't attack anyone. If you (and I don't mean that directed at any one individual) can't handle that level of "condescendment" you probably shouldn't read message boards. And, for the record, I like reading posts from Truffle quite a bit, so I wouldn't have said all that if I thought he was being personally attacked.

[CoolHandLuke]

condescension? :wink:

[Colin Wyers]

Great post. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that Theriot's age 27 season was his first in the majors. I don't know how much of an adjustment there is, but it would be interesting to look at players that broke into the majors at that age and how they did in season 2, 3, etc.

 

Okay. From 1945 (the end of WWII) to 2007, there were 247 major league players who made their debut in their age 27 season and then got at least 1 plate appearance the next season.

 

In their debut season, those players averaged a .291 wOBA; in the next season, those players averaged a .302 wOBA. (.338 is right about league average.) Theriot had a .302 wOBA last season. He seems exceedingly typical of the sort of player that makes their debut at age 27, by that standard. I wouldn't expect a big improvement out of Theriot this season based on this (admittedly slapped together) bit of trivia.

 

(Caveats: I didn't adjust for park, and I did a lazy age calculation rather than figure out seasonal age. You could probably do a better study of the issue than what I've done here, but I think this suffices for my purposes.)

[sethuel1]

I need to change my pants

[TruffleShuffle]

easy down there guys, you don't want colin wyers to experience chafing.

[soapy]

i think the bigger issue is Fontenot, not Theriot. get Fontenot out of the freaking lineup.

[bring stone back]

Let's see, possibly game-losing defensive gaffe and another failure to get a runner in from third with less than two outs.

 

Someone remind me how Theriot always gets the little things right?

 

In a sport like baseball you can't say someone ALWAYS does x, y or z right. Albert Pujols does strike out with the bases loaded, Johan Santana gets shelled from time to time - even the greats do it. (No, I'm not labeling Theriot a great - far from it - but he is playing well thus far). He deserves credit the first 20+ games this year.

[abuck1220]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

The argument against Ryan Theriot is not that he will never, ever do anything, and will hit .000/.000/.000 with zero putouts and zero assists. The argument is that over the course of a full season, Ryan Theriot is unlikely to be especially productive at shortstop - his median forecast is basically right at replacement level, and his high-end forecast still falls short of league average production from his position. He will occasionally have good days, sure - I'm sure I can find some game-winning hits from Neifi Perez if I go back and check the play-by-play records. But over time, the likelihood is that the bad days will outnumber the good.

 

That said. If for whatever reason you will only be satisfied with Ryan Theriot's detractors if we say bad things about him even on the good days - I am there. I am so there. If that's really all that you need to... well, I have no idea why this seems to bother you, but if it does, I will go ahead and provide that valuable service to you. So far as I am capable, I will go ahead and find a way to communicate to you, personally, Ryan Theriot's worth as a starting shortstop - in game threads, in postgame discussions... any time, any place. You're welcome in advance.

 

I think I am in love with this post!

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

Me too, because just what these boards need is more condescending posts.

 

good grief, dude, get some thicker skin.

 

truffle comes in guns-a-blazin because he thinks one swing of theriot's bat has somehow validated his against all odds crusade against cedeno, and he got put in his place. get over it.

[jersey cubs fan]

The double play "line-out" was by no means a hard hit ball.

[cubfan]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

The argument against Ryan Theriot is not that he will never, ever do anything, and will hit .000/.000/.000 with zero putouts and zero assists. The argument is that over the course of a full season, Ryan Theriot is unlikely to be especially productive at shortstop - his median forecast is basically right at replacement level, and his high-end forecast still falls short of league average production from his position. He will occasionally have good days, sure - I'm sure I can find some game-winning hits from Neifi Perez if I go back and check the play-by-play records. But over time, the likelihood is that the bad days will outnumber the good.

 

That said. If for whatever reason you will only be satisfied with Ryan Theriot's detractors if we say bad things about him even on the good days - I am there. I am so there. If that's really all that you need to... well, I have no idea why this seems to bother you, but if it does, I will go ahead and provide that valuable service to you. So far as I am capable, I will go ahead and find a way to communicate to you, personally, Ryan Theriot's worth as a starting shortstop - in game threads, in postgame discussions... any time, any place. You're welcome in advance.

 

I think I am in love with this post!

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

Me too, because just what these boards need is more condescending posts.

 

Somebody has to fill the Meph-void.

 

Hopefully Colin loves the draft, because Meph was almost essential on draft day.

 

What happened to Meph? I take it from this that he dosen't post here any more?

[WilcoFan]

 

good grief, dude, get some thicker skin.

 

truffle comes in guns-a-blazin because he thinks one swing of theriot's bat has somehow validated his against all odds crusade against cedeno, and he got put in his place. get over it.

 

 

Thanks for the advice. It truly means a lot to me. I'm touched by your concern for my epidermis.

[CoolHandLuke]

:banned:

[abuck1220]

 

good grief, dude, get some thicker skin.

 

truffle comes in guns-a-blazin because he thinks one swing of theriot's bat has somehow validated his against all odds crusade against cedeno, and he got put in his place. get over it.

 

 

Thanks for the advice. It truly means a lot to me. I'm touched by your concern for my epidermis.

 

your condescension hurts my feelings.

 

 

and yeah, that "lineout" was not hit very hard.

[ctcf]

didn't see much from the anti-theriot crowd after his game-winning rbi yesterday. plus, isn't it generally a good idea to try to hit the ball hard? that's what he did in the 8th inning; unfortunately it was a line drive right at helton and it was a dp.

 

Seriously. Ryan Theriot hit a single yesterday. I want you to find me a quote from anyone that says that Ryan Theriot will never hit a single.

 

I'll wait.

 

Take all the time you need.

 

Oh? Nobody has said that? Okay then.

 

The argument against Ryan Theriot is not that he will never, ever do anything, and will hit .000/.000/.000 with zero putouts and zero assists. The argument is that over the course of a full season, Ryan Theriot is unlikely to be especially productive at shortstop - his median forecast is basically right at replacement level, and his high-end forecast still falls short of league average production from his position. He will occasionally have good days, sure - I'm sure I can find some game-winning hits from Neifi Perez if I go back and check the play-by-play records. But over time, the likelihood is that the bad days will outnumber the good.

 

That said. If for whatever reason you will only be satisfied with Ryan Theriot's detractors if we say bad things about him even on the good days - I am there. I am so there. If that's really all that you need to... well, I have no idea why this seems to bother you, but if it does, I will go ahead and provide that valuable service to you. So far as I am capable, I will go ahead and find a way to communicate to you, personally, Ryan Theriot's worth as a starting shortstop - in game threads, in postgame discussions... any time, any place. You're welcome in advance.

 

I think I am in love with this post!

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

Me too, because just what these boards need is more condescending posts.

 

Somebody has to fill the Meph-void.

 

Hopefully Colin loves the draft, because Meph was almost essential on draft day.

 

What happened to Meph? I take it from this that he dosen't post here any more?

 

Tragic really. One day he managed to convince himself that he was so much smarter than everyone else that he just internally combusted.

[TruffleShuffle]

truffle comes in guns-a-blazin because he thinks one swing of theriot's bat has somehow validated his against all odds crusade against cedeno, and he got put in his place. get over it.

 

lol, is that what happened? thanks for the tip.