Fukudome Angry with Cubs Vendors?

[Sarcastic]

 

medgar evers, harry moore, addie may collins, martin luther king. dead, or just playing the race card? by which i mean "exaggerating for show".

 

Nope, this is unrelated to that. People who are actual victims of racism have a valid complaint. Neither you nor I nor anyone on this board is being victimized by the idiots selling these t-shirts.

 

we have what is generally referred to as a slippery slope, here, don't we?

 

I think the difference between t-shirts, and for example, voter suppression, isn't too complicated. Not to say that ethics and race are simple, but on a practical level, we can usually make these distinctions, can't we?

 

On the other hand, the slippery slope argument can be used the other way. I'm loathe to do that, because it can be used for just about any issue, so you pretty much have to deal with it regardless, unless you adopt absolutes.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Sarcastic

[rocket]

i'm offended because the shirt is racist. i'm outraged, though, because it's one more thing to make cubs fans look like dumbasses. and i feel bad for fukudome, you can tell that shirt definitely makes him uncomfortable. and this may be a stretch, but could this possibly affect future signings from japan? i doubt it will, but it certainly won't help.

 

anyone who bought that shirt should be ashamed.

[Sammy Sofa]

Unfair expectations?

 

That doesn't really apply to expecting people to not be jackasses.

[BCVM22]

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/04/19/cubs-remove-racist-shirts-from-wrigley/

 

Cubs take swift action.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

medgar evers, harry moore, addie may collins, martin luther king. dead, or just playing the race card? by which i mean "exaggerating for show".

 

Nope, this is unrelated to that. People who are actual victims of racism have a valid complaint. Neither you nor I nor anyone on this board is being victimized by the idiots selling these t-shirts.

 

we have what is generally referred to as a slippery slope, here, don't we?

 

I think the difference between t-shirts, and for example, voter suppression, isn't too complicated. Not to say that ethics and race are simple, but on a practical level, we can usually make these distinctions, can't we?

 

On the other hand, the slippery slope argument can be used the other way. I'm loathe to do that, because it can be used for just about any issue, so you pretty much have to deal with it regardless, unless you adopt absolutes.

 

an assumption that people are faking their outrage at such an image is born from the same mentality that causes people to accuse outspoken racism victims of playing the race card. that is my point.

[Guest]

I've had three different t-shirt vendors approach me about selling various forms of idiocy on the site.

 

Honestly, though, I find the "fuku-xxx" crap in game threads & so forth to be just as appalling. It's been difficult to stamp out, though.

[MPC]

In addition to this, I remember during todays game there were two fans behind home plate who would do some kind of faux karate during Fukudome at bats. Why are some people so stupid?

 

Yah, I was like four rows behind those idiots. They were extremely annoying. I was wondering if they were showing up on TV.

unfortunately they were. and of course, they had on the "japanese" headbands that are being sold too. maybe marty brenneman was right. :?

[MPC]

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/04/19/cubs-remove-racist-shirts-from-wrigley/

 

Cubs take swift action.

i didn't know the cubs had control over what vendors sell outside of wrigley. so they're okwith the "cards suck" or "sox suck" shirts, or even the "poo holes" shirts?

[1908]

The Cubs own the rights to the cub head image that appears in the shirt.

[BCVM22]

i didn't know the cubs had control over what vendors sell outside of wrigley. so they're okwith the "cards suck" or "sox suck" shirts, or even the "poo holes" shirts?

 

I believe the exact shirts in question have a licensed Cub insignia on them (the blue bear face in the red circle) or something close enough to a licensed insignia that the Cubs could win the case if it came to that, and as such the offending vendors decided it was far wiser to simply comply immediately.

[Sarcastic]

 

medgar evers, harry moore, addie may collins, martin luther king. dead, or just playing the race card? by which i mean "exaggerating for show".

 

Nope, this is unrelated to that. People who are actual victims of racism have a valid complaint. Neither you nor I nor anyone on this board is being victimized by the idiots selling these t-shirts.

 

we have what is generally referred to as a slippery slope, here, don't we?

 

I think the difference between t-shirts, and for example, voter suppression, isn't too complicated. Not to say that ethics and race are simple, but on a practical level, we can usually make these distinctions, can't we?

 

On the other hand, the slippery slope argument can be used the other way. I'm loathe to do that, because it can be used for just about any issue, so you pretty much have to deal with it regardless, unless you adopt absolutes.

 

an assumption that people are faking their outrage at such an image is born from the same mentality that causes people to accuse outspoken racism victims of playing the race card. that is my point.

 

I disagree. I don't think these ideas are necessarily related at all. The argument that anyone who complains about racism is playing the race card is typically based on satisfying the resentment of some white people and their assumption that race problems have been solved and black people should get over it. This argument is based on no such thing. I'm not saying there isn't some racism going on here, just that this particular instance is kind of a silly thing to be outraged about.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

I disagree. I don't think these ideas are necessarily related at all. The argument that anyone who complains about racism is playing the race card is typically based on satisfying the resentment of some white people and their assumption that race problems have been solved and black people should get over it. This argument is based on no such thing. I'm not saying there isn't some racism going on here, just that this particular instance is kind of a silly thing to be outraged about.

 

i disagree. telling people that they shouldn't be offended by something clearly offensive and based upon an offensive stereotype is tantamount to telling black people that they cannot be victims of racism because it doesn't exist.

[Sarcastic]

 

I disagree. I don't think these ideas are necessarily related at all. The argument that anyone who complains about racism is playing the race card is typically based on satisfying the resentment of some white people and their assumption that race problems have been solved and black people should get over it. This argument is based on no such thing. I'm not saying there isn't some racism going on here, just that this particular instance is kind of a silly thing to be outraged about.

 

i disagree. telling people that they shouldn't be offended by something clearly offensive and based upon an offensive stereotype is tantamount to telling black people that they cannot be victims of racism because it doesn't exist.

 

I'm not even saying people can't be offended by this, just that expressions of outrage aren't useful on this, especially when they aren't genuine. Let's face it, when you are threatening violence against large numbers of people for wearing offensive t-shirts, you are putting on an act or you are imbalanced. Every time something offensive (though not always consequential) happens, people feel a need to take their reaction to extremes to demonstrate how much they are offended. When the story about the Yale art student hit, people wished she would be barren. Everytime some perverted criminal commits a horrendous act, people talk about sending him to jail to be repeatedly anally raped. This acting is not helpful.

 

There is still damaging racism in our society. If you want to combat it, do that instead of making a big deal over an idiotic but ultimately unimportant racist t-shirt.

[Derwood]

I've had three different t-shirt vendors approach me about selling various forms of idiocy on the site.

 

Honestly, though, I find the "fuku-xxx" crap in game threads & so forth to be just as appalling. It's been difficult to stamp out, though.

 

really? you think "Fuku-single" is appalling? how is it any different than Arambomb or Sotowned?

[Magnetic Curses]

 

I disagree. I don't think these ideas are necessarily related at all. The argument that anyone who complains about racism is playing the race card is typically based on satisfying the resentment of some white people and their assumption that race problems have been solved and black people should get over it. This argument is based on no such thing. I'm not saying there isn't some racism going on here, just that this particular instance is kind of a silly thing to be outraged about.

 

i disagree. telling people that they shouldn't be offended by something clearly offensive and based upon an offensive stereotype is tantamount to telling black people that they cannot be victims of racism because it doesn't exist.

 

I'm not even saying people can't be offended by this, just that expressions of outrage aren't useful on this, especially when they aren't genuine. Let's face it, when you are threatening violence against large numbers of people for wearing offensive t-shirts, you are putting on an act or you are imbalanced. Every time something offensive (though not always consequential) happens, people feel a need to take their reaction to extremes to demonstrate how much they are offended. When the story about the Yale art student hit, people wished she would be barren. Everytime some perverted criminal commits a horrendous act, people talk about sending him to jail to be repeatedly anally raped. This acting is not helpful.

 

There is still damaging racism in our society. If you want to combat it, do that instead of making a big deal over an idiotic but ultimately unimportant racist t-shirt.

 

i didn't say anything about people being offended to the point of violence. i didn't know that that was the case.

 

in the case of threats of violence, i'd say those people are much more likely to be unbalanced than faking.

 

you simply cannot tell people that they aren't offended by something.

[Sarcastic]

 

I disagree. I don't think these ideas are necessarily related at all. The argument that anyone who complains about racism is playing the race card is typically based on satisfying the resentment of some white people and their assumption that race problems have been solved and black people should get over it. This argument is based on no such thing. I'm not saying there isn't some racism going on here, just that this particular instance is kind of a silly thing to be outraged about.

 

i disagree. telling people that they shouldn't be offended by something clearly offensive and based upon an offensive stereotype is tantamount to telling black people that they cannot be victims of racism because it doesn't exist.

 

I'm not even saying people can't be offended by this, just that expressions of outrage aren't useful on this, especially when they aren't genuine. Let's face it, when you are threatening violence against large numbers of people for wearing offensive t-shirts, you are putting on an act or you are imbalanced. Every time something offensive (though not always consequential) happens, people feel a need to take their reaction to extremes to demonstrate how much they are offended. When the story about the Yale art student hit, people wished she would be barren. Everytime some perverted criminal commits a horrendous act, people talk about sending him to jail to be repeatedly anally raped. This acting is not helpful.

 

There is still damaging racism in our society. If you want to combat it, do that instead of making a big deal over an idiotic but ultimately unimportant racist t-shirt.

 

i didn't say anything about people being offended to the point of violence. i didn't know that that was the case.

 

in the case of threats of violence, i'd say those people are much more likely to be unbalanced than faking.

 

you simply cannot tell people that they aren't offended by something.

 

I'm not so much saying that people aren't offended as I am saying that their being offended is partly a result of feeling expected to be offended, and offended in a grand way. Threatening violence is sometimes just a way to up the ante and prove how offended you really are. And sometimes it is just a bad joke.

 

I think people can genuinely be offended by this. It certainly is stupid. But expectations muddy the waters and blow inconsequential issues out of proportion, making it harder to talk reasonably about more consequential unspoken problems. Hence, the outrage over t-shirts not being useful.

 

I don't know, this train of thought has gotten away from me.

[bukie]

If the only way something can be funny would be that a negative racial stereotype is hilarious, then it's not appropriate.

 

The exception to this being White Men Can't Jump.

[Andy]

I've had three different t-shirt vendors approach me about selling various forms of idiocy on the site.

 

Honestly, though, I find the "fuku-xxx" crap in game threads & so forth to be just as appalling. It's been difficult to stamp out, though.

 

really? you think "Fuku-single" is appalling? how is it any different than Arambomb or Sotowned?

I was about to post the same thing. It's a name pun like any other silly name pun we throw around on here.

[Guest]

I've had three different t-shirt vendors approach me about selling various forms of idiocy on the site.

 

Honestly, though, I find the "fuku-xxx" crap in game threads & so forth to be just as appalling. It's been difficult to stamp out, though.

 

really? you think "Fuku-single" is appalling? how is it any different than Arambomb or Sotowned?

Not really what I was thinking of.

[snoodmonger]

indefensible.

 

I find this pretty stupid and unfunny, but I can think of things that are worse. I wish people would have a little more respect for other cultures and just not buy them, though.

 

(Not aimed at snoodmonger) Not quite as unfunny as the shirts themselves are all the pompous or downright violent reactions provoked by them. Faux outrage is not awesome. I'm not crazy about real outrage either when it is a reaction to t-shirts.

 

 

Where did I say there was nothing worse? I said it was indefensible. That's not an exaggeration.

 

Want to know what really sucks? (Not aimed at sarcastic) Lame people who think they can ascertain "faux outrage" on a message board. I also don't care for people who are willing to casually brush aside blatantly offensive stuff.

 

As for casually brushing it aside, what would you have me do? If I write out an angry post on an internet message board, am I helping anyone? They aren't hurting anybody, they are just being idiots, so I don't see the point in getting angry. If others want to, they are free to do so.

 

I guess I take issue with this mentality. Your base argument is that it is somehow better to do nothing than to do something. Or, at the least, they are of equal value. I'm not going to sit here and pretend me (or anyone else) condemning racism on a message board is going to effect any great change. But it's certainly not hurting anyone. And it's possible it could help in a small way. For example, let's say someone here hadn't considered the implications of the shirt and was considering buying one. If he stumbled across this thread, maybe he thinks twice.

 

More importantly, though, I think perhaps the most important thing one can do to combat racism and prejudice is to denounce it and denounce it vocally. Do some people take it too far? Maybe. Are some people guilty of faux outrage. I'm sure they are. But I'm willing to risk that because I think to ignore instances of prejudice is to come dangerously close to endorsing them.

[XZero771679666304]

 

More importantly, though, I think perhaps the most important thing one can do to combat racism and prejudice is to denounce it and denounce it vocally. Do some people take it too far? Maybe. Are some people guilty of faux outrage. I'm sure they are. But I'm willing to risk that because I think to ignore instances of prejudice is to come dangerously close to endorsing them.

 

 

Dead on.

[Guest]

I've had three different t-shirt vendors approach me about selling various forms of idiocy on the site.

 

Honestly, though, I find the "fuku-xxx" crap in game threads & so forth to be just as appalling. It's been difficult to stamp out, though.

 

really? you think "Fuku-single" is appalling? how is it any different than Arambomb or Sotowned?

 

I would assume he's talking about putting a player name or a team name in the place of the "xxx".

[Jon]

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/04/19/cubs-remove-racist-shirts-from-wrigley/

 

Cubs take swift action.

I'm glad they reacted quickly to the article, but a week or two ago would have been nicer. Regardless, I hope they go even further and make people inside Wrigley turn those shirts inside out.

[Derwood]

maybe the person who created those shirts was one of those bright, young entrepreneurs who threw "Virginia Tech" parties in college. you know, the ones where everyone showed up dressed like gun shot victims?

[C.C.]

I'm more pissed at the clueless idiots who buy the shirts.