Soriano injury

[SouthSideRyan]

Fine I'm getting a sig.

[Derwood]

you are all going to be SO pissed when they call up Murton but start DeRosa/Johnson every day.

[bukie]

Love the anti-logic of "helping" a player who is "overmatched" by benching him. What is he gonna learn through, osmosis? Magic?

 

I don't know who you're talking to but I didn't once consider this as "helping" Pie by benching him. I'm suggesting benching him because he isn't hitting the baseball and Reed Johnson is.

 

The manager's job is to put players in a position to succeed and give the Cubs the best chance to win every day - that would be Reed Johnson.

 

The manager's job is to put the players on the field that would give the Cubs the best chance to win more games overall. Short term fixes to sacrifice long-term development is not the way to do that. Pie has no more he can learn in AAA. He adjusted to and mastered that league. He needs time to adjust to the major leagues, and the Cubs need time to evaluate him in their long-term plans. Neither is accomplished by benching Pie or sending him down.

 

Pie has initially struggled for a few months at every stage of development. Once he adjusts, he's been a phenominal player, on all levels. The important thing right now is to not have a knee-jerk panic reaction and stunt his development even more just to get a below average offensive performance from CF for a month instead of a poor one. It could even be argued that his defensive value over Johnson makes up most of the offensive difference.

[Soul]

Love the anti-logic of "helping" a player who is "overmatched" by benching him. What is he gonna learn through, osmosis? Magic?

 

I don't know who you're talking to but I didn't once consider this as "helping" Pie by benching him. I'm suggesting benching him because he isn't hitting the baseball and Reed Johnson is.

 

The manager's job is to put players in a position to succeed and give the Cubs the best chance to win every day - that would be Reed Johnson.

 

The manager's job is to put the players on the field that would give the Cubs the best chance to win more games overall. Short term fixes to sacrifice long-term development is not the way to do that. Pie has no more he can learn in AAA. He adjusted to and mastered that league. He needs time to adjust to the major leagues, and the Cubs need time to evaluate him in their long-term plans. Neither is accomplished by benching Pie or sending him down.

 

Pie has initially struggled for a few months at every stage of development. Once he adjusts, he's been a phenominal player, on all levels. The important thing right now is to not have a knee-jerk panic reaction and stunt his development even more just to get a below average offensive performance from CF for a month instead of a poor one. It could even be argued that his defensive value over Johnson makes up most of the offensive difference.

 

The whole problem I have with it is what you just eluded to: you don't have this significantly better option to go to. You're getting only marginal, short term extra offensive production in Reed. It's really not that much more. And in return, you guarantee that Pie won't be productive in the 2nd half, so you're basically saying it's going to be Johnson all year unless a trade is made. You're locking yourself into the production of Johnson, essentially. Doesn't seem wise to me, but what do I know.

[Tyrant]

Sometimes people need to remove the "argh he struck out and looked dumb" emotion from watching a player when evaluating him

 

The outs count the same statistically, yes.

 

But when you're evaluating a guy and he can't even make contact, that's worse than a guy who is at least putting the ball in play. Felix can hardly get the bat on the ball at this point. He's got a lot of work to do.

[soapy]

Love the anti-logic of "helping" a player who is "overmatched" by benching him. What is he gonna learn through, osmosis? Magic?

 

I don't know who you're talking to but I didn't once consider this as "helping" Pie by benching him. I'm suggesting benching him because he isn't hitting the baseball and Reed Johnson is.

 

The manager's job is to put players in a position to succeed and give the Cubs the best chance to win every day - that would be Reed Johnson.

 

The manager's job is to put the players on the field that would give the Cubs the best chance to win more games overall. Short term fixes to sacrifice long-term development is not the way to do that. Pie has no more he can learn in AAA. He adjusted to and mastered that league. He needs time to adjust to the major leagues, and the Cubs need time to evaluate him in their long-term plans. Neither is accomplished by benching Pie or sending him down.

 

Pie has initially struggled for a few months at every stage of development. Once he adjusts, he's been a phenominal player, on all levels. The important thing right now is to not have a knee-jerk panic reaction and stunt his development even more just to get a below average offensive performance from CF for a month instead of a poor one. It could even be argued that his defensive value over Johnson makes up most of the offensive difference.

I simply wanted to quote you to emphasize the bolded. I've always had a hard time understanding why people don't grap this aspect of managing. Taking it out of the context of simply Johnson v. Pie, the manager should always consider what is best for the team long term; both in terms of the entire season and future seasons.

 

Let's get away from the Dusty Baker "Do you want me to win or do want me to develop players?" mentality. The simple answer is, both. There is absolutely no reason why a team with the resources the Cubs have can't do both.

[Garage Party]

Updates plz

 

Hop its not serious.

[C.C.]

Sometimes people need to remove the "argh he struck out and looked dumb" emotion from watching a player when evaluating him

 

The outs count the same statistically, yes.

 

But when you're evaluating a guy and he can't even make contact, that's worse than a guy who is at least putting the ball in play. Felix can hardly get the bat on the ball at this point. He's got a lot of work to do.

 

Either play him or send him down. Right now he's a waste of a rooster spot if he's on the bench or an occasional spot start.

[biittner77]

I dont know abou giving up on Pie, but I just dont think this is his year. Sure, hes great on defense, but his bat is putrid, and when were trying to avoid a 100 year drought, this is no time for on the job training, especially if we have a better bat for the job. Felix needs a little moe time in Iowa to get his confidence back. Hopefully he can knock around some AAAers, and then come back.

 

So if the Cubs win the WS this year it becomes OK for Pie to learn on the job next year? You don't think they'll be pressure to repeat?

 

Someone else said that Pie was a black hole last night and he needed to be benched. Somehow the rest of the team managed to score 9 runs. If you're going to make decisions on small sample sizes then this logic should also apply.

 

Finally, with Soriano out, Pie will be the only guy not hitting so they will be able to carry him.

[biittner77]

There is no earthly reason for Piniella to play Johnson in LF. Against LH he'll want him in CF. Against RH he can play Fontenot at 2nd and Derosa in LF or he could bite the bullet defensively and run Ward out there.

 

Murton may very well sit against RH pitchers but at least he offers a better RH bat off the bench then Blnaco or Cedeno/Theriot.

[bcl412]

Love the anti-logic of "helping" a player who is "overmatched" by benching him. What is he gonna learn through, osmosis? Magic?

 

I don't know who you're talking to but I didn't once consider this as "helping" Pie by benching him. I'm suggesting benching him because he isn't hitting the baseball and Reed Johnson is.

 

The manager's job is to put players in a position to succeed and give the Cubs the best chance to win every day - that would be Reed Johnson.

 

The manager's job is to put the players on the field that would give the Cubs the best chance to win more games overall. Short term fixes to sacrifice long-term development is not the way to do that. Pie has no more he can learn in AAA. He adjusted to and mastered that league. He needs time to adjust to the major leagues, and the Cubs need time to evaluate him in their long-term plans. Neither is accomplished by benching Pie or sending him down.

 

 

 

Pie has initially struggled for a few months at every stage of development. Once he adjusts, he's been a phenominal player, on all levels. The important thing right now is to not have a knee-jerk panic reaction and stunt his development even more just to get a below average offensive performance from CF for a month instead of a poor one. It could even be argued that his defensive value over Johnson makes up most of the offensive difference.

 

The whole problem I have with it is what you just eluded to: you don't have this significantly better option to go to. You're getting only marginal, short term extra offensive production in Reed. It's really not that much more. And in return, you guarantee that Pie won't be productive in the 2nd half, so you're basically saying it's going to be Johnson all year unless a trade is made. You're locking yourself into the production of Johnson, essentially. Doesn't seem wise to me, but what do I know.

 

IMO, Pie has looked overmatched in one game, that was last night against one of the better pitchers in the NL (Although he was having an off night he is still pretty good). Based on just watching him play, I think he is learning how to be patient with his at bats and to be more selective with what he swings at. His first few games he was swinging at everything, and then he started taking pitches that were down the middle in an attempt to adjust. Last night he was late on everything in his first couple of at bats, which means he was struggling to pick up the ball out of the pitchers hand. Then he started swing at pitches that were just out of the strike zone and high (pitches you have to swing a little bit sooner on if your going to hit, thus your judgement of where the ball is going to be will be a little off.). My point is he clearly has the talent to hit the baseball, we've see that throughout the minors, he just needs to learn to adjust to MLB pitching. I think it is clear that he is attempting to learn. Based on his talent levels, I think he will get it but he has to get playing time. It isn't like were gaining a whole lot with playing Johnson right now so I say take a little less production now and and have a chance at getting some great production in the future.

 

On the topic of Soriano's injury, maybe time off will get him back on track but I love the fact that Murton will get some good playing time.

[Derwood]

I'm as frustrated as anyone with Pie, but he is never going to adapt without real game, MLB experience. taking swings in a cage or knocking the cover off of 70 mph fastballs in BP will do nothing for him.

 

are there any recently retired ML pitchers who the Cubs can bring in to just throw a steady diet of breaking stuff at Pie every day before BP?

[BigbadB]

Depending on the severity of Soriano's injury coupled with Pie's inability thus far to adapt to major league pitching (Lou and Jim's views), I'm even more convinced that the Cubs will now overpay for Coco Crisp.

[Wilson A2000]

Forget Coco Crisp, go after Kenny Loften.

 

How much longer until the Cubs can activate the diminished skills clause in Soriano's contract and let him loose?

[Jon]

Forget Coco Crisp, go after Kenny Loften.

 

How much longer until the Cubs can activate the diminished skills clause in Soriano's contract and let him loose?

Soriano's skills haven't diminished.

[Sammy Sofa]

and after watching tonites game, pie is officially an offensive black hole

 

Yep. He is so overmatched at the plate it's comical at times.

 

The question now is do you keep him with the big league team and give him a start every 10 games or so and let him be a late inning defensive replacement or send him down and let him work on shortening his swing?

 

I know, I know...he crushes AAA pitching and has nothing more to prove. Clearly he does have more to prove because nothing he did down there is translating here and now.

 

i know he's been bad. but can you really give up on him 2 weeks into the season? if he's struggling like this in june, then i'd look for some other solutions.

 

No one is giving up on him, but he has to EARN a job, it cant just be given to him....the best player has to play and he isnt the best yet

 

How is he supposed to EARN it by riding pine after only two weeks or sporadic starts?

[abuck1220]

Forget Coco Crisp, go after Kenny Loften.

 

How much longer until the Cubs can activate the diminished skills clause in Soriano's contract and let him loose?

 

you advocate getting kenny lofton then talk about soriano's diminished skills?

[Tyrant]

Forget Coco Crisp, go after Kenny Loften.

 

There's a reason Lofton hasn't been signed by anyone. He'd probably be the worst defensive center fielder in baseball.

[PrimeTime]

The injury didn'y bother me at all for some reason..Probably because he was frustrating the hell out of me and I'm sure most of you..I actually think we will play better without him..Atleast we'll have guys not strikeing out every time up there and will take some pitches and when Fonzie comes back theyll stick him down in the order finally.

[UMFan83]

I've been reading around looking for some sort of outlook. One site is speculating that because of the fact that he had to be helped off the field, it is probably a serious calf strain. If it is serious, its probably going to be 3-4 weeks. Another thing I read is that a lot of times a calf strain turns into an achillies issue after an MRI is taken. If its an achillies tear, I don't have to tell you guys that he'll be out for the season.

[mlarner]

The injury didn'y bother me at all for some reason..Probably because he was frustrating the hell out of me and I'm sure most of you..I actually think we will play better without him..Atleast we'll have guys not strikeing out every time up there and will take some pitches and when Fonzie comes back theyll stick him down in the order finally.

Thats true, this might be the final straw in terms of him hitting at the top of the order. They started him farther down in the order to begin the year, at least partly due to still having a bad leg, and only moved him up (I think) when Theriot was not working out. So, maybe this makes it easy to say once and for all we are moving you down in the lieup to "protect your legs and keep you healthy."

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Believing you can make judgments about players based on 30 PAs and start switching in so-called "hot hands" is the intellectual equivalent of trying to time the stock market.

[anabiono]

I've been reading around looking for some sort of outlook. One site is speculating that because of the fact that he had to be helped off the field, it is probably a serious calf strain. If it is serious, its probably going to be 3-4 weeks. Another thing I read is that a lot of times a calf strain turns into an achillies issue after an MRI is taken. If its an achillies tear, I don't have to tell you guys that he'll be out for the season.

 

ok, i was not worried at all until i read this post...

[Chocolate Milk]

Hilarious to listen to meatheads call in to AM 1000 and say stuff like, "Good riddance." "We are better off without him." "Biggest bust in Chicago sports history." These are the same guys who have Theriot written in pen as the leadoff man until Soriano is back.

 

Boy, people sure don't like strikeouts.

[chuckywang]

Hilarious to listen to meatheads call in to AM 1000 and say stuff like, "Good riddance." "We are better off without him." "Biggest bust in Chicago sports history." These are the same guys who have Theriot written in pen as the leadoff man until Soriano is back.

 

Boy, people sure don't like strikeouts.

 

They must absolutely hate Ryan Howard.