Official Theriot appreciation thread

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It's foolish to assert that he's our best option for the position, and it's even more foolish to make a numbered list with inaccuracies and hyperbole.

 

Yet not quite as foolish as missing the point of the post, yet responding to it anyway. HINT: see the caveat at the end of the list. There was an intended audience, and "rational people" were not that intended audience. If people had responded rationally, the indignation would never have happened.

where was the personal attack?

[MustangMike]

DeRosa can't play there

why not?

 

 

Well I'm no scout, but I don't believe he has the range for it. He does have a nice arm though.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

DeRosa can't play there

why not?

 

 

Well I'm no scout, but I don't believe he has the range for it. He does have a nice arm though.

he's played there in 108 games

[MustangMike]

DeRosa can't play there

why not?

 

 

Well I'm no scout, but I don't believe he has the range for it. He does have a nice arm though.

he's played there in 108 games

 

 

POS GP GS INN TC PO A E DP FPCT RF ZR

1B 12 6 67.2 58 56 1 1 12 0.983 7.7 0.875

2B 209 183 1579.1 868 355 499 14 115 0.984 4.87 0.847

3B 184 157 1420.1 436 85 329 22 21 0.95 2.62 0.767

SS 138 79 829.2 458 149 297 12 66 0.974 4.84 0.838

LF 14 9 87 13 12 1 0 0 1 1.34 0.857

RF 112 94 851.2 209 202 6 1 1 0.995 2.2 0.878

[RegulusBlue]

This guy is a bum.

 

I don't hate him, but he has no business batting leadoff for a team with playoff designs. You could make an argument that he would have no place in that lineup, either.

[RegulusBlue]

Lots of support in this thread, by the way. Congratulations.

[WilcoFan]

where was the personal attack?

 

One of the first responses to the original post was "go to hell." If that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is. Later responses implied that the support of Theriot was based on race, and the post above this one felt the need to take a shot at the person starting this thread simply because it didn't get much support.

 

I should be clear-I don't like Theriot, and I personally would prefer Cedeno. But my God, just because someone thinks Theriot is the best SS the team currently has (by no means a ridiculous argument), there is no reason to tell that person to go to hell. Get a little perspective.

[Sammy Sofa]

where was the personal attack?

 

One of the first responses to the original post was "go to hell." If that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is. Later responses implied that the support of Theriot was based on race, and the post above this one felt the need to take a shot at the person starting this thread simply because it didn't get much support.

 

I should be clear-I don't like Theriot, and I personally would prefer Cedeno. But my God, just because someone thinks Theriot is the best SS the team currently has (by no means a ridiculous argument), there is no reason to tell that person to go to hell. Get a little perspective.

 

That was me. I figured such an absurd statement in regards to a nobody ballplayer would be recognized as such. Whoops.

 

The race thing I do think in some cases is somewhat valid, and shouldn't just be dismissed offhand. Yes, something as blunt as "liking Theriot makes you a racist" said in seriousness would be ridiculous, but I find it very curious/interesting/odd that players like Theriot or Eckstein are often defended tooth and nail as "playing the game right" and as "gamers" or "gritty" whereas players like Neifi Perez or Juan Pierre are just awful or "lazy" or even "stupid."

[Tyrant]

where was the personal attack?

 

One of the first responses to the original post was "go to hell." If that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is. Later responses implied that the support of Theriot was based on race, and the post above this one felt the need to take a shot at the person starting this thread simply because it didn't get much support.

 

I should be clear-I don't like Theriot, and I personally would prefer Cedeno. But my God, just because someone thinks Theriot is the best SS the team currently has (by no means a ridiculous argument), there is no reason to tell that person to go to hell. Get a little perspective.

 

That was me. I figured such an absurd statement in regards to a nobody ballplayer would be recognized as such. Whoops.

 

The race thing I do think in some cases is somewhat valid, and shouldn't just be dismissed offhand. Yes, something as blunt as "liking Theriot makes you a racist" said in seriousness would be ridiculous, but I find it very curious/interesting/odd that players like Theriot or Eckstein are often defended tooth and nail as "playing the game right" and as "gamers" or "gritty" whereas players like Neifi Perez or Juan Pierre are just awful or "lazy" or even "stupid."

 

All I meant is that no one ever talks about how gritty a black or Latino guy is. Maybe Juan Pierre, but that's about all.

[Garage Party]

Whoever said that Theriot's ceiling is equal to Cedeno's floor had to be, in some sense, kidding. I'm pretty sure we've seen Ronny Cedeno's floor, and it involved being baseball [expletive] in every phase of the game.

[SouthSideRyan]

Theriot = CPatt = Dusty = LaTroy = Neifi = Macias = Bartman = Bruce Froemming = Pierre = Jock = Designated Cubs Scapegoat

 

Someone should start a thread about lazy, homer-watching, pop-up avoiding, first-base dogging, Mr Aramis Ramirez, but I won't hold my breath...

 

This is gonna go places.

[jersey cubs fan]

Theriot = CPatt = Dusty = LaTroy = Neifi = Macias = Bartman = Bruce Froemming = Pierre = Jock = Designated Cubs Scapegoat

 

Someone should start a thread about lazy, homer-watching, pop-up avoiding, first-base dogging, Mr Aramis Ramirez, but I won't hold my breath...

 

This is gonna go places.

 

I'm not going to have his breath holding death on my conscious.

[17 Seconds]

I don't think anybody hates Theriot, they're just smart enough to realize that he isn't good at baseball. My mom isn't good at baseball but I don't hate her.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I have an irrational liking of Theriot. I know that and recognize it. I want him to do well. I want him to be an all-star. I'm also realistic enough to know that we could use an improvement at SS and that if Theriot is on the team, he should never hit higher than seventh.

[Derwood]

i am dismayed that this thread is 2 pages longer than the "get rid of Theriot" thread, but I realize that 3 of the pages here are actually anti-Theriot

[Andy]

No one will be happier than me if Theriot continues creaming the baseball like he did today.

[CubbieBum]

I like Theriot and I also appreciate him. He also has a cool nickname. The blame for him being the regular at SS and batting lead of actually isn't his fault. That blame belongs to Lou and Jim.

 

I'm with Tim on this, except that I would send down Fontenot and keep Theriot as the back up utility guy. Patterson at 2b and DeRosa at SS is exactly what this team needs. And here is the line up I'd run out there:

 

Soriano

Fukudome

Lee

Ramirez

Pie

Soto

Patterson

DeRosa

 

I would not be opposed to those moves but why Pie so high and DeRosa so low? If you were to flip them I'd be on board.

 

I would not want my #5 hitter to be an offensive liability like Pie who at times will be completely overwhelmed at this level and will struggle to just make contact.

 

The #5 hitter seems to be an unavoidable hole at this point. Sure, they can bat Fukudome there, but he's much better served at #2 or maybe even #1. DeRosa is in the same boat. Both are decent hitters who can take pitches, but they (likely) don't have the power threat to really shore up #5. Of course, Soriano is ideal hitting 5th, but personally, I'm not confident of him being as valuable as he can be anywhere besides #1.

 

I know it's a broken record and probbly no chance of happening, but man, picking up Greene from SD would so wonderfully solve both the SS and #5 issues. I wonder if a package of Marmol/Cedeno/Gallagher/Murton would have a chance of getting that done by the deadline.

 

Let's not give up one of the best relief pitchers in baseball for a SS that bats for a lower average than Theriot. Greene is head and shoulders above Theriot but giving up Marmol would be idiotic. I would find Greene frustrating to watch because he is a guy who swings for the fences 90% of the time but isn't really a great power guy. If he changed his approach and went for more contact he could be a .280 15-20 hr guy while playing good defense.

 

And to answer the blame it on Hendry stuff. Yes it is Hendry's fault all we have is Theriot but we can't have great hitters at every position. We have signed Sori, Lee, Aram, Derosa, and Fukudome in recent years (extensions on some) while developing Soto and Pie. SS is the one position we never improved at (well Theriot is an improvement over Izturis) but its not like there is an abundance of good SS. Boston had Lugo all of last year is Epstein a bad GM for that?

[CubbieBum]

I like Theriot and I also appreciate him. He also has a cool nickname. The blame for him being the regular at SS and batting lead of actually isn't his fault. That blame belongs to Lou and Jim.

 

I'm with Tim on this, except that I would send down Fontenot and keep Theriot as the back up utility guy. Patterson at 2b and DeRosa at SS is exactly what this team needs. And here is the line up I'd run out there:

 

Soriano

Fukudome

Lee

Ramirez

Pie

Soto

Patterson

DeRosa

 

I would not be opposed to those moves but why Pie so high and DeRosa so low? If you were to flip them I'd be on board.

 

I would not want my #5 hitter to be an offensive liability like Pie who at times will be completely overwhelmed at this level and will struggle to just make contact.

 

The #5 hitter seems to be an unavoidable hole at this point. Sure, they can bat Fukudome there, but he's much better served at #2 or maybe even #1. DeRosa is in the same boat. Both are decent hitters who can take pitches, but they (likely) don't have the power threat to really shore up #5. Of course, Soriano is ideal hitting 5th, but personally, I'm not confident of him being as valuable as he can be anywhere besides #1.

 

I know it's a broken record and probbly no chance of happening, but man, picking up Greene from SD would so wonderfully solve both the SS and #5 issues. I wonder if a package of Marmol/Cedeno/Gallagher/Murton would have a chance of getting that done by the deadline.

 

Let's not give up one of the best relief pitchers in baseball for a SS that bats for a lower average than Theriot. Greene is head and shoulders above Theriot but giving up Marmol would be idiotic. I would find Greene frustrating to watch because he is a guy who swings for the fences 90% of the time but isn't really a great power guy. If he changed his approach and went for more contact he could be a .280 15-20 hr guy while playing good defense.

 

And to answer the blame it on Hendry stuff. Yes it is Hendry's fault all we have is Theriot but we can't have great hitters at every position. We have signed Sori, Lee, Aram, Derosa, and Fukudome in recent years (extensions on some) while developing Soto and Pie. SS is the one position we never improved at (well Theriot is an improvement over Izturis) but its not like there is an abundance of good SS. Boston had Lugo all of last year is Epstein a bad GM for that?

[David]

Theriot = CPatt = Dusty = LaTroy = Neifi = Macias = Bartman = Bruce Froemming = Pierre = Jock = Designated Cubs Scapegoat

 

Someone should start a thread about lazy, homer-watching, pop-up avoiding, first-base dogging, Mr Aramis Ramirez, but I won't hold my breath...

 

The funny thing is, everyone there other than Aramis, Bartman, and maybe Latroy are bad to terrible at whatever it is they do.

[TruffleShuffle]

theriot would actually be a good option at #9, like the brewers have been using with kendall, but i can't see the cubs ever being smart enough to do this.

[Sammy Sofa]

Let's not give up one of the best relief pitchers in baseball for a SS that bats for a lower average than Theriot. Greene is head and shoulders above Theriot but giving up Marmol would be idiotic. I would find Greene frustrating to watch because he is a guy who swings for the fences 90% of the time but isn't really a great power guy. If he changed his approach and went for more contact he could be a .280 15-20 hr guy while playing good defense.

 

Look, the argument for Greene has been spelled out clearly over and over again. If you're going to sit there and reply that him having a lower BA compared to Ryan-freakin'-Theriot is the main argument against him and ignore everything else, this is over before it even begins.

 

Secondly, trading Marmol for the right player is about as far from idiotic as one could get. On the contrary...if the Cubs wised up and sold high for once, Marmol as part of a package could net a very juicy return to fill holes the team desperately needs to fill. At the end of the day, Marmol, as great as he is, is a reliever. You don't choose to horde a reliever when he could help net you desperately needed upgrades. The only way I'd want the Cubs to keep Marmol is if it looks like he can be stretched into an effective starter or if the bullpen suffered a slew of injuries. Short of either of that, he should be packaged up and sold high. To me, netting Greene in return for such a package would benefit the team much more than Marmol's relief appearances. I know a lot of people here would agree with that.

[CubbieBum]

Let's not give up one of the best relief pitchers in baseball for a SS that bats for a lower average than Theriot. Greene is head and shoulders above Theriot but giving up Marmol would be idiotic. I would find Greene frustrating to watch because he is a guy who swings for the fences 90% of the time but isn't really a great power guy. If he changed his approach and went for more contact he could be a .280 15-20 hr guy while playing good defense.

 

Look, the argument for Greene has been spelled out clearly over and over again. If you're going to sit there and reply that him having a lower BA compared to Ryan-freakin'-Theriot is the main argument against him and ignore everything else, this is over before it even begins.

 

Secondly, trading Marmol for the right player is about as far from idiotic as one could get. On the contrary...if the Cubs wised up and sold high for once, Marmol as part of a package could net a very juicy return to fill holes the team desperately needs to fill. At the end of the day, Marmol, as great as he is, is a reliever. You don't choose to horde a reliever when he could help net you desperately needed upgrades. The only way I'd want the Cubs to keep Marmol is if it looks like he can be stretched into an effective starter or if the bullpen suffered a slew of injuries. Short of either of that, he should be packaged up and sold high. To me, netting Greene in return for such a package would benefit the team much more than Marmol's relief appearances. I know a lot of people here would agree with that.

 

And a lot of people would be making a really big mistake. RP are extremely important. If your bullpen stinks you will not be in the playoffs. We have a good but not great bullpen and to trade our best guy in that pen (and a lot of other guys who have good trade value) for an above average SS would be a big mistake. Green had an OBP below .300 last year :shock: . Sure he got 27 HR's but a lot of guys who can get away with swinging away every atbat without being benched could get 27 dingers. In the end what he is is a good fielding SS and a frustrating hitter for the team he plays for.

[17 Seconds]

Greene is a flyball hitter playing in a park that is a flyball hitter's nightmare.

 

His career line away from Petco- .280/.335/.515. That's an .849 career ops. Combine that with the fact that he's an elite fielder and you have one monumental upgrade over Ryan Theriot. I'm not saying we should or sohuld not trade Marmol for him, but trying to talk down how good he is because of his low OBP while not mentioning what park he plays in is pretty silly.

[Sammy Sofa]

And a lot of people would be making a really big mistake. RP are extremely important. If your bullpen stinks you will not be in the playoffs. We have a good but not great bullpen and to trade our best guy in that pen (and a lot of other guys who have good trade value) for an above average SS would be a big mistake. Green had an OBP below .300 last year :shock: . Sure he got 27 HR's but a lot of guys who can get away with swinging away every atbat without being benched could get 27 dingers. In the end what he is is a good fielding SS and a frustrating hitter for the team he plays for.

 

Trading Marmol wouldn't make this bullpen stink. The Cubs have the luxury of selling high on a player like Marmol and still having a competitive or better bullpen.

 

Greene's numbers are dragged down by playing half of his season in the cavern that is Petco. Look at his splits. His away OPS was .840 last year. .863 the year before that. Get him out of Petco and into a place like Wrigley and his numbers overall will soar. He's a serious power threat, especially for a SS, and he plays excellent defense at a position where we could use it. Plus, as opposed to Marmol's one inning every other game, he'll play almost every game. If you can use a reliever as a package to get a young, excellent everyday player like Greene, you do it.

[17 Seconds]

And a lot of people would be making a really big mistake. RP are extremely important. If your bullpen stinks you will not be in the playoffs. We have a good but not great bullpen and to trade our best guy in that pen (and a lot of other guys who have good trade value) for an above average SS would be a big mistake. Green had an OBP below .300 last year :shock: . Sure he got 27 HR's but a lot of guys who can get away with swinging away every atbat without being benched could get 27 dingers. In the end what he is is a good fielding SS and a frustrating hitter for the team he plays for.

 

Trading Marmol wouldn't make this bullpen stink. The Cubs have the luxury of selling high on a player like Marmol and still having a competitive or better bullpen.

 

I strongly disagree.