Official get rid of Theriot thread.

[CubbieBum]

Julio Lugo is batting .400 let's trade for him.

[TruffleShuffle]

Theriot sucks, but Ronny Sucks JUST AS MUCH.

 

If he started for the whole year, I guarantee he'd be the NSBB mob-approved whipping boy instead.

 

don't be so sure. he has the almighty "potential" and that allows him a lot longer rope.

 

Are you really arguing that young players that have shown great success in the minors shouldn't be given more "rope" than players that have been average or bad in the minors and downright terrible in the majors in their peak years?

 

not necessarily, especially if said player has used the rope to hang himself in previous years.

[Tracer Bullet]

Theriot sucks, but Ronny Sucks JUST AS MUCH.

 

If he started for the whole year, I guarantee he'd be the NSBB mob-approved whipping boy instead.

 

don't be so sure. he has the almighty "potential" and that allows him a lot longer rope.

 

Are you really arguing that young players that have shown great success in the minors shouldn't be given more "rope" than players that have been average or bad in the minors and downright terrible in the majors in their peak years?

 

not necessarily, especially if said player has used the rope to hang himself in previous years.

 

I don't know how many times people can remind you that completely writing off people because they were forced into action when they weren't ready (at age 23) is a bad idea. It's apparent that no logic is going to change your opinion on this matter so I'll just try to ignore your posts comparing Ronny and Theriot.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't know how many times people can remind you that completely writing off people because they were forced into action when they weren't ready (at age 23) is a bad idea. It's apparent that no logic is going to change your opinion on this matter so I'll just try to ignore your posts comparing Ronny and Theriot.

 

lol. and i gave one example (want more? jose reyes. hanley ramirez. khalil greene. miguel tejada. rafael furcal. derek jeter.) who were similarly "rushed" to the majors at or before the age of 23, but performed admirably at the big league level and were able to continue playing productively at that level. ronny spent basically a full season at West Tennessee and then half of a season at Iowa. That made nearly five seasons in the minor leagues. Many, many players - most, in fact - move more quickly through the system than that. Saying that Ronny was "rushed" to the big leagues isn't a fact; it's people using hindsight to try to explain why he was one of the worst players in baseball in 2006.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't know how many times people can remind you that completely writing off people because they were forced into action when they weren't ready (at age 23) is a bad idea. It's apparent that no logic is going to change your opinion on this matter so I'll just try to ignore your posts comparing Ronny and Theriot.

 

lol. and i gave one example (want more? jose reyes. hanley ramirez. khalil greene. miguel tejada. rafael furcal. derek jeter.) who were similarly "rushed" to the majors at or before the age of 23, but performed admirably at the big league level and were able to continue playing productively at that level.

 

It's a false point to compare Cedeno to almost all of those players. Even his biggest supporters here aren't saying he's Jeter or Ramirez or Tejada et al. To put up their career tracks as standard or expected models is absurd.

[BigbadB]

A whopping 683 plate appearances between AA and AAA at the ripe young age of 21/22, while also logging games at the major league level in 2005 in every month of the season during his only AAA season before playing SS regularly in 2006.

[TruffleShuffle]

A whopping 683 plate appearances between AA and AAA at the ripe young age of 21/22, while also logging games at the major league level in 2005 in every month of the season during his only AAA season before playing SS regularly in 2006.

 

people say "a whopping 683 plate appearances" as though it's extremely uncommon for players to reach the majors having had fewer than this many plate appearances at the more advanced minor league levels. it's not. it's actually quite common. and he performed at a decent level in west tennessee in 2005 (it's a pitcher's league and a pitcher's park), beat up pitching in iowa during 2005, and played well for the big club in 2006. it was time to see if he would sink or swim in 2006; starting him out at iowa would have been pointless. in if ronny was "rushed" then i would guess you could say that most of the starting players in baseball were also "rushed."

[SouthSideRyan]

A whopping 683 plate appearances between AA and AAA at the ripe young age of 21/22, while also logging games at the major league level in 2005 in every month of the season during his only AAA season before playing SS regularly in 2006.

 

people say "a whopping 683 plate appearances" as though it's extremely uncommon for players to reach the majors having had fewer than this many plate appearances at the more advanced minor league levels. it's not. it's actually quite common. and he performed at a decent level in west tennessee in 2005 (it's a pitcher's league and a pitcher's park), beat up pitching in iowa during 2005, and played well for the big club in 2006. it was time to see if he would sink or swim in 2006; starting him out at iowa would have been pointless. in if ronny was "rushed" then i would guess you could say that most of the starting players in baseball were also "rushed."

 

Ryan Theriot wasn't rushed. He was a 27 year old rookie. If only Ronny was afforded the same luxury. He could go mash in AAA for another couple years.

[RynoRules]

A whopping 683 plate appearances between AA and AAA at the ripe young age of 21/22, while also logging games at the major league level in 2005 in every month of the season during his only AAA season before playing SS regularly in 2006.

 

people say "a whopping 683 plate appearances" as though it's extremely uncommon for players to reach the majors having had fewer than this many plate appearances at the more advanced minor league levels. it's not. it's actually quite common. and he performed at a decent level in west tennessee in 2005 (it's a pitcher's league and a pitcher's park), beat up pitching in iowa during 2005, and played well for the big club in 2006. it was time to see if he would sink or swim in 2006; starting him out at iowa would have been pointless. in if ronny was "rushed" then i would guess you could say that most of the starting players in baseball were also "rushed."

 

Ryan Theriot wasn't rushed. He was a 27 year old rookie. If only Ronny was afforded the same luxury. He could go mash in AAA for another couple years.

 

And what good would that do? (I assume you were being sarcastic)

 

I agree that Ronny is probably a better player than Ryan, but he played an entire season at SS in 2006 and was Macias-level awful in over 500 AB's:

.245 .271 .339

 

In virtually the same no. of AB's last season, Theriot put up:

.266 .326 .346

 

The argument that Cedeno is so clearly better than Theriot is belied by the facts.

[RegulusBlue]

Update 4/4:

 

Ryan is 0 for 1 with a weak grounder to 2B on the first pitch, and he flubbed a DP turn in the top 3rd.

 

2nd AB:

 

Two pitches, one weak flyout to CF.

Edited April 4, 2008 by RegulusBlue

[Sammy Sofa]

A whopping 683 plate appearances between AA and AAA at the ripe young age of 21/22, while also logging games at the major league level in 2005 in every month of the season during his only AAA season before playing SS regularly in 2006.

 

people say "a whopping 683 plate appearances" as though it's extremely uncommon for players to reach the majors having had fewer than this many plate appearances at the more advanced minor league levels. it's not. it's actually quite common. and he performed at a decent level in west tennessee in 2005 (it's a pitcher's league and a pitcher's park), beat up pitching in iowa during 2005, and played well for the big club in 2006. it was time to see if he would sink or swim in 2006; starting him out at iowa would have been pointless. in if ronny was "rushed" then i would guess you could say that most of the starting players in baseball were also "rushed."

 

Ryan Theriot wasn't rushed. He was a 27 year old rookie. If only Ronny was afforded the same luxury. He could go mash in AAA for another couple years.

 

And what good would that do? (I assume you were being sarcastic)

 

I agree that Ronny is probably a better player than Ryan, but he played an entire season at SS in 2006 and was Macias-level awful in over 500 AB's:

.245 .271 .339

 

In virtually the same no. of AB's last season, Theriot put up:

.266 .326 .346

 

The argument that Cedeno is so clearly better than Theriot is belied by the facts.

 

The argument is that Cedeno's ceiling is higher, not that he's necessarily better at this exact moment. Given Theriot's age and minor league history, that line in 2007 is likely around the best you can expect from him. Given Cedeno's age and his minor league numbers, it's reasonable to expect that he underperformed in 2006 and has a great chance of doing much better if he gets to play.

[RegulusBlue]

Update 4/4:

 

Ryan is 0 for 1 with a weak grounder to 2B on the first pitch, and he flubbed a DP turn in the top 3rd.

 

2nd AB:

 

Two pitches, one weak flyout to CF.

 

3rd AB:

 

Takes ball.

Swings through curveball.

Check-swing foul ball.

Grounder to 3B.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah we get the point.

[RegulusBlue]

He sucks.

[TruffleShuffle]

He sucks.

 

you forgot to update us on his fourth at bat.

[RegulusBlue]

you forgot to update us on his fourth at bat.

 

Do you believe you got me somehow?

I was away from the computer pretty much until just now. I believe it was a single down the right field line.

 

So, where are we now?

 

Another 1/4 day.

 

.222/.222/.278 on the year. Still in line to get the most ABs.

[Elrhino]

I don't know what this board would do without their much needed boogeymen to kick to distract us from bigger issues. I guess Theriot gets the 2008 honor.

 

Nevermind that Lee, Soriano and ARam are struggling out of the gate. That's rather meaningless in the grand scheme of things. If we could just get Ronnie frickin Cedano more at bats than Theriot. Boy, now there's a reason to pull your hair out.

[RynoRules]

A whopping 683 plate appearances between AA and AAA at the ripe young age of 21/22, while also logging games at the major league level in 2005 in every month of the season during his only AAA season before playing SS regularly in 2006.

 

people say "a whopping 683 plate appearances" as though it's extremely uncommon for players to reach the majors having had fewer than this many plate appearances at the more advanced minor league levels. it's not. it's actually quite common. and he performed at a decent level in west tennessee in 2005 (it's a pitcher's league and a pitcher's park), beat up pitching in iowa during 2005, and played well for the big club in 2006. it was time to see if he would sink or swim in 2006; starting him out at iowa would have been pointless. in if ronny was "rushed" then i would guess you could say that most of the starting players in baseball were also "rushed."

 

Ryan Theriot wasn't rushed. He was a 27 year old rookie. If only Ronny was afforded the same luxury. He could go mash in AAA for another couple years.

 

And what good would that do? (I assume you were being sarcastic)

 

I agree that Ronny is probably a better player than Ryan, but he played an entire season at SS in 2006 and was Macias-level awful in over 500 AB's:

.245 .271 .339

 

In virtually the same no. of AB's last season, Theriot put up:

.266 .326 .346

 

The argument that Cedeno is so clearly better than Theriot is belied by the facts.

 

The argument is that Cedeno's ceiling is higher, not that he's necessarily better at this exact moment. Given Theriot's age and minor league history, that line in 2007 is likely around the best you can expect from him. Given Cedeno's age and his minor league numbers, it's reasonable to expect that he underperformed in 2006 and has a great chance of doing much better if he gets to play.

 

I "hear" you, and agree insomuch as playing Cedeno every day couldn't be worse than what Theriot is likely to do. That said, the difference is likely to be nominal, at least offensively.

 

What we need is an external candidate.

[TruffleShuffle]

you forgot to update us on his fourth at bat.

 

Do you believe you got me somehow?

I was away from the computer pretty much until just now. I believe it was a single down the right field line.

 

So, where are we now?

 

Another 1/4 day.

 

.222/.222/.278 on the year. Still in line to get the most ABs.

 

BLAME THE MANAGER

[imb]

Dude, you're taking this too personally.

 

No one is saying "That bastard Theriot, not only is he terrible, but he's got a chokehold on the No. 1/No. 2 spots in the lineup!"

 

When someone points out that it sucks that our worst hitter is going to get a ton of at-bats, they aren't blaming Theriot for that fact, they're just pointing it out. Take a breath.

[Bote McBoteface]

I don't know what this board would do without their much needed boogeymen to kick to distract us from bigger issues. I guess Theriot gets the 2008 honor.

 

Nevermind that Lee, Soriano and ARam are struggling out of the gate. That's rather meaningless in the grand scheme of things. If we could just get Ronnie frickin Cedano more at bats than Theriot. Boy, now there's a reason to pull your hair out.

 

 

The thing is, Theriot sucks and this is only slightly below what you can expect from him throughout the year. Soriano, Lee, and Aram will, barring injury, pick things up and be around their career norms.

[TruffleShuffle]

if theriot turns out to be adequte and ronny ends up getting traded and hitting .100 somewhere, these threads will approach the rich hill and mark derosa threads in my pantheon of awesomest threads. unfortunately i don't think theriot is near good enough to put egg on people's faces.

 

though i'm still curious as to whether folks are still pining for ray durham's 2007 over mark derosa's 2007 plus $4 million. it's too bad that we didn't use the savings to sign j.d. drew, though. that contract is looking solid right about now.

 

okay that's enough, i will stop (sort of) defending jim hendry. he still sucks.

[RynoRules]

Yeah, I forgot about the Ray Durham and JD Drew love. But there's also the immortal Brad Wilkerson. Glad we don't have him either.

[TruffleShuffle]

Yeah, I forgot about the Ray Durham and JD Drew love. But there's also the immortal Brad Wilkerson. Glad we don't have him either.

 

we'd be looking great with ray durham at 2b, jd drew in rf and jason schmidt in the starting rotation

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Ryan Theriot is now 0-for-2 at getting runners home from third with less than two outs. Isn't that supposed to be the kind of thing he's good at?