Can Theriot actually be adequate?

[imb]

Personally, I don't really care what Theriot's SLG is as long as he can get on base at .350 or better and score 100 runs, which isn't necessarily out of the question with this offense.

 

Theriot is never going to have a high SLG%, and I would be really surprised to see him hit more than 5 HR in any one season. He will hit some doubles, and steal some bases - and most importantly score some runs.

 

80 runs scored in your first full season is not bad for anyone, and that was with a .326 OB% that certainly will be improved upon.

 

80 runs scored in 586 PAs is terrible. It's not a matter of it being his first season or anything like that, it's a matter of him not being good at baseball. Just because he physically can't hit for any power whatsoever doesn't mean that it's wrong to criticize him for not being able to.

 

If you get hired to be an effective worker, and you're just not able to be effective, you deserve to get bounced, no matter what your job is.

[jersey cubs fan]

Personally, I don't really care what Theriot's SLG is as long as he can get on base at .350 or better and score 100 runs, which isn't necessarily out of the question with this offense.

 

Theriot is never going to have a high SLG%, and I would be really surprised to see him hit more than 5 HR in any one season. He will hit some doubles, and steal some bases - and most importantly score some runs.

 

80 runs scored in your first full season is not bad for anyone, and that was with a .326 OB% that certainly will be improved upon.

 

The runs scored number is meaningless. That all depends on where he hits and who hits around him.

 

I don't care if you care about his SLG, just because he can't SLG doesn't mean it's alright to accept incompetence in the category. That would be like saying you don't care if a power hitter only has a .300 OBP, because getting on base isn't his game, hitting for power is. Theriot is not likely to approach a .350 OBP. He's likely to stay in the very weak range similar to what he had last year, which, when combined with no SLG, is completely unacceptable.

[imb]

suck it, goony

[jersey cubs fan]

you win

[chopsx9]

Personally, I don't really care what Theriot's SLG is as long as he can get on base at .350 or better and score 100 runs, which isn't necessarily out of the question with this offense.

 

Theriot is never going to have a high SLG%, and I would be really surprised to see him hit more than 5 HR in any one season. He will hit some doubles, and steal some bases - and most importantly score some runs.

 

80 runs scored in your first full season is not bad for anyone, and that was with a .326 OB% that certainly will be improved upon.

 

The runs scored number is meaningless. That all depends on where he hits and who hits around him.

 

I don't care if you care about his SLG, just because he can't SLG doesn't mean it's alright to accept incompetence in the category. That would be like saying you don't care if a power hitter only has a .300 OBP, because getting on base isn't his game, hitting for power is. Theriot is not likely to approach a .350 OBP. He's likely to stay in the very weak range similar to what he had last year, which, when combined with no SLG, is completely unacceptable.

 

If he had made 10 more hits or walks (or some combo) in his PA's last year he's at .343 and at .360 with 20. That's not asking for a complete turn around for a player with just 1 full year. Just sayin'.

 

That said I'd like to see Ronny make a run.

[Abe Frohman]

The runs scored number is meaningless. That all depends on where he hits and who hits around him.

 

That is not necessarily true. There are good and bad baserunners, and Theriot certainly is not a bad one.

 

I don't care if you care about his SLG, just because he can't SLG doesn't mean it's alright to accept incompetence in the category.

 

I don't care that you don't care if I don't care about his slugging, though like you - I would love for Theriot to be able to slug.

 

That would be like saying you don't care if a power hitter only has a .300 OBP, because getting on base isn't his game, hitting for power is. Theriot is not likely to approach a .350 OBP. He's likely to stay in the very weak range similar to what he had last year, which, when combined with no SLG, is completely unacceptable.

 

Why is Theriot not likely to approach a .350 OB%? He carried one over .350 as late as the last week in August last season.

[Ryno12]

I would love to see The Riot post a .350 .375 .725 line this year with 30 SB. However, I just don't see that happening. Something like .340 .350 .690 may be too optimistic...

[CoolHandLuke]

I dont care much for Theriot, but IF Soto and Pie produce close to what they are projected to, I can live with him as the worst position player on the team.

 

The problem is that in the future I don't think the FO will ever view him as a huge weakness, which he is.

[jersey cubs fan]

I dont care much for Theriot, but IF Soto and Pie produce close to what they are projected to, I can live with him as the worst position player on the team.

 

The problem is that in the future I don't think the FO will ever view him as a huge weakness, which he is.

 

That illustrates the problem. Normally, you'd like to introduce a player like Soto into an already stable lineup. Same with Pie. But they are introducing Soto and Pie into a lineup that is already plagued by Theriot. That's 3/8 of the lineup filled by guys who are either a question mark, or certain to stink. Doesn't leave much room for error. And that's quite pathetic on a team that costs $100m+ and has had problems at C, SS and CF for several years.

[UMFan83]

I dont care much for Theriot, but IF Soto and Pie produce close to what they are projected to, I can live with him as the worst position player on the team.

 

The problem is that in the future I don't think the FO will ever view him as a huge weakness, which he is.

 

That illustrates the problem. Normally, you'd like to introduce a player like Soto into an already stable lineup. Same with Pie. But they are introducing Soto and Pie into a lineup that is already plagued by Theriot. That's 3/8 of the lineup filled by guys who are either a question mark, or certain to stink. Doesn't leave much room for error. And that's quite pathetic on a team that costs $100m+ and has had problems at C, SS and CF for several years.

 

I don't know about having a problem at C for several years. We had Barrett for 3.5 seasons, and considering the life of a catcher thats pretty stable.

 

Of course one could argue how much Barrett actually contributed to the Cubs when you factor in his defense.

[jersey cubs fan]

I dont care much for Theriot, but IF Soto and Pie produce close to what they are projected to, I can live with him as the worst position player on the team.

 

The problem is that in the future I don't think the FO will ever view him as a huge weakness, which he is.

 

That illustrates the problem. Normally, you'd like to introduce a player like Soto into an already stable lineup. Same with Pie. But they are introducing Soto and Pie into a lineup that is already plagued by Theriot. That's 3/8 of the lineup filled by guys who are either a question mark, or certain to stink. Doesn't leave much room for error. And that's quite pathetic on a team that costs $100m+ and has had problems at C, SS and CF for several years.

 

I don't know about having a problem at C for several years. We had Barrett for 3.5 seasons, and considering the life of a catcher thats pretty stable.

 

Of course one could argue how much Barrett actually contributed to the Cubs when you factor in his defense.

 

And Barrett was Hendry's big crush, he worked out briefly, but fell apart quickly. It's been an unstable position for years. 3B was a problem for years, but it no longer is because Ramirez has been a steady presence for 4+ years and looks to be for the foreseeable future.

[Soul]

I'll grant you it's possible. He is closing in on 30, though. And I do think that matters.

 

As someone who's four months older than Theriot, I resent the statement he's "closing in on 30."

 

We're all younger than we think we are. :P

=D>

 

You're old.

 

Haha. I'm closing in on the next tier. Riot would be like my little brother. That makes me ancient and boring to women. Not a good combo. 8-)

[UK1679666180]

If Cedeno could've proven by now that defensively he was less prone to mistakes on routine plays, I would be willing to accept the higher risk/reward offense he could provide.

 

Combine the possibility that he might be worse offensively than Theriot in the short-term and more likely to struggle defensively, I would prob. go with Theriot.

 

With that said, Theriot is a utility player starting at SS. While Cedeno still has to prove he's above a marginal player in the long-term.

[17 Seconds]

I didn't even read this thread, but I'd say it's you're in trouble at a position when people are asking "Can Theriot actually be adequate?"

 

That's like saying "Does anybody think that maybe one day possibly George Bush could potentially be not completely retared but only pretty [expletive]?"

[TruffleShuffle]

If Cedeno could've proven by now that defensively he was less prone to mistakes on routine plays, I would be willing to accept the higher risk/reward offense he could provide.

 

Combine the possibility that he might be worse offensively than Theriot in the short-term and more likely to struggle defensively, I would prob. go with Theriot.

 

agreed. cedeno makes too many fielding and baserunning mistakes, and in 2006 he was one of the worst hitters in baseball. the two guys have roughly the same amount of PAs in the majors; Theriot's big league EqA is .260 while Cedeno's is .214. that's right, .214. with theriot you know what you're going to get, and it's mediocrity, but it's not a complete black hole. cedeno could be a better player, but we've got more than a year of major league sample size to look at, and he's been far worse in that time. for a team that is in contention right now, i don't know if you have another year to see if he will sink or swim.

[TruffleShuffle]

I didn't even read this thread, but I'd say it's you're in trouble at a position when people are asking "Can Theriot actually be adequate?"

 

That's like saying "Does anybody think that maybe one day possibly George Bush could potentially be not completely retared but only pretty [expletive]?"

 

yeah but bush is the equivalent of cedeno's 2006 season. theriot is more like millard fillmore, just kinda meh.

[Tyrant]

 

agreed. cedeno makes too many fielding and baserunning mistakes, and in 2006 he was one of the worst hitters in baseball. the two guys have roughly the same amount of PAs in the majors; Theriot's big league EqA is .260 while Cedeno's is .214. that's right, .214. with theriot you know what you're going to get, and it's mediocrity, but it's not a complete black hole. cedeno could be a better player, but we've got more than a year of major league sample size to look at, and he's been far worse in that time. for a team that is in contention right now, i don't know if you have another year to see if he will sink or swim.

 

Good post.

[Tracer Bullet]

If Cedeno could've proven by now that defensively he was less prone to mistakes on routine plays, I would be willing to accept the higher risk/reward offense he could provide.

 

Combine the possibility that he might be worse offensively than Theriot in the short-term and more likely to struggle defensively, I would prob. go with Theriot.

 

agreed. cedeno makes too many fielding and baserunning mistakes, and in 2006 he was one of the worst hitters in baseball. the two guys have roughly the same amount of PAs in the majors; Theriot's big league EqA is .260 while Cedeno's is .214. that's right, .214. with theriot you know what you're going to get, and it's mediocrity, but it's not a complete black hole. cedeno could be a better player, but we've got more than a year of major league sample size to look at, and he's been far worse in that time. for a team that is in contention right now, i don't know if you have another year to see if he will sink or swim.

 

He was 23!!!

 

And besides, if he's terrible for a month or two, you always have Theriot to fall back on - it's not like we can trade him for anything. And sitting on the bench for 2 months isn't going to hurt Theriot. Heck, it might help him avoid another nasty slip at the end of the year due to being "worn out" from playing so much.

 

Finally, if Theriot's in the lineup all year, he gets 700 PAs b/c he'll hit 1/2. That's a lot of bad or, at best, mediocre, PAs. If Cedeno's in the lineup, his EqA (terrible or otherwise) is hitting 8th and our better hitters all move up 1 spot, meaning they get more PAs, meaning likely more Rs for the team.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm of the belief that Theriot can be an average to slightly above average SS in the big leagues. He has an very good SO/K ratio, plays adequate defense, is an efficienct base stealer, and in his only full year in the big leagues played pretty admirably (other than his fade down the stretch). He deserves the chance again this year so lets give it to him.

 

If it is true that pitchers have figured him out he will struggle again fairly quickly, if that is the case Lou will do what has to be done. At this point in time I think we should give Theriot the benefit of the doubt, and work with the belief he faded down the stretch. Now if we were talking about trading for a starting SS or moving DeRosa to SS then I would say, let's bench him. But unfortunately it does not look we will be doing either.

 

I think we can expect at the low end for Theriot to put 265/330/350 this year and at the high end 290/360/400.

 

If Theriot OPSes 760 this year over a full season, I'll eat your hat.

[SouthSideRyan]

If Cedeno could've proven by now that defensively he was less prone to mistakes on routine plays, I would be willing to accept the higher risk/reward offense he could provide.

 

Combine the possibility that he might be worse offensively than Theriot in the short-term and more likely to struggle defensively, I would prob. go with Theriot.

 

agreed. cedeno makes too many fielding and baserunning mistakes, and in 2006 he was one of the worst hitters in baseball. the two guys have roughly the same amount of PAs in the majors; Theriot's big league EqA is .260 while Cedeno's is .214. that's right, .214. with theriot you know what you're going to get, and it's mediocrity, but it's not a complete black hole. cedeno could be a better player, but we've got more than a year of major league sample size to look at, and he's been far worse in that time. for a team that is in contention right now, i don't know if you have another year to see if he will sink or swim.

 

He was 23!!!

 

Thank you, I make this post about once a month, but while Cedeno was flailing away in the majors. Theriot was flailing away in SINGLE A. Theriot would hit about 180 in the majors at the age Ronny was up. Just imagine how terrible that "tiring down at the end of the season" woulda been.

[biittner77]

Finally, if Theriot's in the lineup all year, he gets 700 PAs b/c he'll hit 1/2. That's a lot of bad or, at best, mediocre, PAs. If Cedeno's in the lineup, his EqA (terrible or otherwise) is hitting 8th and our better hitters all move up 1 spot, meaning they get more PAs, meaning likely more Rs for the team.

 

An important and often overlooked point. :good:

 

Fukudome

Soriano

Lee

Ramirez

Soto

Derosa

Pie

Cedeno

 

Piniella has already said that he won't have Fukudome leadoff because Pie batting 8th is LH. Cedeno solves that "problem". That "problem" only exists because the Cubs don't have any RH bats to come off the bench- I guess that's a different rant.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

No, Theriot cannot be adequate. He sucks, plain and simple and should be replaced. I never understand the cheering section this guy gets other than the fact his skin is the right color(sorry but you know it's true)

[Rob]

If Cedeno could've proven by now that defensively he was less prone to mistakes on routine plays, I would be willing to accept the higher risk/reward offense he could provide.

 

Combine the possibility that he might be worse offensively than Theriot in the short-term and more likely to struggle defensively, I would prob. go with Theriot.

 

agreed. cedeno makes too many fielding and baserunning mistakes, and in 2006 he was one of the worst hitters in baseball. the two guys have roughly the same amount of PAs in the majors; Theriot's big league EqA is .260 while Cedeno's is .214. that's right, .214. with theriot you know what you're going to get, and it's mediocrity, but it's not a complete black hole. cedeno could be a better player, but we've got more than a year of major league sample size to look at, and he's been far worse in that time. for a team that is in contention right now, i don't know if you have another year to see if he will sink or swim.

 

Theriot's Projected EqA: .237

Cedeno's Projected EqA: .252

 

Completely forget all the talk about Cedeno's ceiling/floor vs. Theriot's ceiling/floor. Right now, at this very moment, Cedeno is a better bet to produce this year than Theriot is.

[TruffleShuffle]

i'm fairly certain that cedeno's projected EqA in 2006 was not .208.

[TruffleShuffle]

If Cedeno could've proven by now that defensively he was less prone to mistakes on routine plays, I would be willing to accept the higher risk/reward offense he could provide.

 

Combine the possibility that he might be worse offensively than Theriot in the short-term and more likely to struggle defensively, I would prob. go with Theriot.

 

agreed. cedeno makes too many fielding and baserunning mistakes, and in 2006 he was one of the worst hitters in baseball. the two guys have roughly the same amount of PAs in the majors; Theriot's big league EqA is .260 while Cedeno's is .214. that's right, .214. with theriot you know what you're going to get, and it's mediocrity, but it's not a complete black hole. cedeno could be a better player, but we've got more than a year of major league sample size to look at, and he's been far worse in that time. for a team that is in contention right now, i don't know if you have another year to see if he will sink or swim.

 

He was 23!!!

 

yes, he was. the guy who was the best player in the national league last year was 24. i understand that most guys don't hit their peak until their late 20s; however, the chances of a guy becoming successful in the major leagues after being one of the worst players in baseball for a full season are very slim.