carDinaLs

[Derwood]

Mark Mulder

Joel Piniero

Matt Clement

Tyler Johnson

Juan Encarnacion

Josh Kinney

Chris Carpenter

 

7 guys on the DL to start the year, 6 of whom are pitchers.

 

OUCH

[brinoch]

Yeah, that's generally not a good sign.

[CuseCubFan69]

Yeah, that's generally not a good sign.

 

Didn't the Cards gamble on a lot of DL type pitchers this off season due to the lack of talent?

[mul21]

Yeah, that's generally not a good sign.

 

Didn't the Cards gamble on a lot of DL type pitchers this off season due to the lack of talent?

 

Not other than Clement. Mulder, Carpenter, and Kinney are all coming off surgery from last year, Piniero developed some shoulder issues during ST, and I'm not sure about Johnson, he may have had some lingering injury from last season.

[CuseCubFan69]

Yeah, that's generally not a good sign.

 

Didn't the Cards gamble on a lot of DL type pitchers this off season due to the lack of talent?

 

Not other than Clement. Mulder, Carpenter, and Kinney are all coming off surgery from last year, Piniero developed some shoulder issues during ST, and I'm not sure about Johnson, he may have had some lingering injury from last season.

 

Thanks mul, I thought they might have dipped into the Miller type player thinking.

[Andy]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I just noticed that Matt Cain went 3 2/3 IP, 9 ER while the immortal Todd Wellemeyer went 7 IP, 1 ER tonight.

 

The pixie dust lives.

[RedFlash]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I just noticed that Matt Cain went 3 2/3 IP, 9 ER while the immortal Todd Wellemeyer went 7 IP, 1 ER tonight.

 

The pixie dust lives.

 

Eventually the players are going to realize they ain't as good as their April is suggesting, and by May the Cards will fall back into their spot in the NL Central. You can't rely on 4 crappy pitchers, and one good pitcher for the whole season.

[Bote McBoteface]

They have a tough month of June. If they haven't been buried by then, they will be in June.

[ArthurVandalay]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I just noticed that Matt Cain went 3 2/3 IP, 9 ER while the immortal Todd Wellemeyer went 7 IP, 1 ER tonight.

 

The pixie dust lives.

 

Eventually the players are going to realize they ain't as good as their April is suggesting, and by May the Cards will fall back into their spot in the NL Central. You can't rely on 4 crappy pitchers, and one good pitcher for the whole season.

 

Didn't we say the same thing in '06???

[mul21]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I just noticed that Matt Cain went 3 2/3 IP, 9 ER while the immortal Todd Wellemeyer went 7 IP, 1 ER tonight.

 

The pixie dust lives.

 

Eventually the players are going to realize they ain't as good as their April is suggesting, and by May the Cards will fall back into their spot in the NL Central. You can't rely on 4 crappy pitchers, and one good pitcher for the whole season.

 

Didn't we say the same thing in '06???

 

They actually did fall back to their place in '06, unfortunately everybody else in the division was so horrible, they couldn't take advantage of the division winner only having 83 frickin' wins.

[sneakypower]

i'm pretty glad they've gotten off to such a strong start. this will surely delude LaRussa into thinking they're a contender and further delay the rebuilding process they should have started last August.

 

there is absolutely no plausible scenario where they're still challenging for the division come July.

[reggiemiller rules]

The start to this season is starting to remind me of 2004. The Cubs had just mad the playoffs the year before and everyone was picking them and Houston to win the division and wild card, then the Cards came out of nowhere to win the division. I dont think it is going to happen, cause this cards team does not have half the talent that team had. But the start is reminding me of that season.

[DiamondMind]

It is absolutely -beyond- me how some of you are counting the Cardinals out already. I mean, have you been paying attention the last 30 years? Superior management and coaching regularly produces fundamentally sound teams, and they sometimes turn into unexpected winners.

[sneakypower]

you still need talent, something they are short on.

[DiamondMind]

And they dont have any?? Pujols, Wainwright, Ankiel, Glaus, Yadier, Isringhausen...with Mulder and Carpenter returning, and Rasmus in the minors

 

they do have a lot of subpar veterans and aaaa players overperforming right now though...specifically say, ryan ludwick and skip racecar

[Guest]

And they dont have any?? Pujols, Wainwright, Ankiel, Glaus, Yadier, Isringhausen...with Mulder and Carpenter returning, and Rasmus in the minors

 

they do have a lot of subpar veterans and aaaa players overperforming right now though...specifically say, ryan ludwick and skip racecar

 

Carpenter is coming off Tommy John surgery and there's no guarantee he's going to be able to come back healthy right away. It might not be until 2009 that he regains form. The last time Mulder pitched, he had a 7.14 ERA and a 1.7 WHIP in 93 innings in 2006.

 

The Cardinals have some talent, just not that much and not as much as the Cubs and Brewers.

Edited April 19, 2008 by soccer10k

[David]

lol at thinking that Mulder or Carpenter will do anything this year...

 

or, in Mulder's case, ever, for that matter...

[radarluv1]

i think i heard carp will be facing hitters monday, fwiw

[DiamondMind]

And they dont have any?? Pujols, Wainwright, Ankiel, Glaus, Yadier, Isringhausen...with Mulder and Carpenter returning, and Rasmus in the minors

 

they do have a lot of subpar veterans and aaaa players overperforming right now though...specifically say, ryan ludwick and skip racecar

 

Carpenter is coming off Tommy John surgery and there's no guarantee he's going to be able to come back healthy right away. It might not be until 2009 that he regains form. The last time Mulder pitched, he had a 7.14 ERA and a 1.7 WHIP in 93 innings in 2006.

 

The Cardinals have some talent, just not that much and not as much as the Cubs and Brewers.

 

I agree, their talent level is definitely below that of Chicago and Milwaukee, and maybe even Cincy. But...I just think a quality organization finds a way to stay competitive, and sometimes blind luck can be enough to put you over the hump.

[RedFlash]

It is absolutely -beyond- me how some of you are counting the Cardinals out already. I mean, have you been paying attention the last 30 years? Superior management and coaching regularly produces fundamentally sound teams, and they sometimes turn into unexpected winners.

 

The problem there is....the Cards no longer have a Whitey Herzog, or a Walt Jockerty as manager or GM of the franchise. LaRussa is an overrated douche, who won on the backs of players like McGwire, Canseco, Henderson(s), Honeycutt, Stewart, Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, etc, etc, etc. And he micro manages his team, which means the pressure is on Dave Duncan to get the most out of his pitchers. In other words...the Cards no longer has the "superior management" they once had. Their current GM, doesn't have the track record as a GM, and again LaRussa may be the MOST OVERRATED manager in all of baseball, possibly second to Joe Torre.

 

Eventually, the pixie dust is going to wear out for the Cubs, and they should finish around the 72-78 wins this season.

[hardcorecubfan]

Of that list whom will be off by all-star break?

[SouthSideRyan]

And they dont have any?? Pujols, Wainwright, Ankiel, Glaus, Yadier, Isringhausen...with Mulder and Carpenter returning, and Rasmus in the minors

 

they do have a lot of subpar veterans and aaaa players overperforming right now though...specifically say, ryan ludwick and skip racecar

 

When you're rattling off a list of the team's talents, and the 3rd name on your list is Rick Ankiel(the hitting version) then there's not a lot of talent out there.

[daske17]

It is absolutely -beyond- me how some of you are counting the Cardinals out already. I mean, have you been paying attention the last 30 years? Superior management and coaching regularly produces fundamentally sound teams, and they sometimes turn into unexpected winners.

 

The problem there is....the Cards no longer have a Whitey Herzog, or a Walt Jockerty as manager or GM of the franchise. LaRussa is an overrated douche, who won on the backs of players like McGwire, Canseco, Henderson(s), Honeycutt, Stewart, Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, etc, etc, etc. And he micro manages his team, which means the pressure is on Dave Duncan to get the most out of his pitchers. In other words...the Cards no longer has the "superior management" they once had. Their current GM, doesn't have the track record as a GM, and again LaRussa may be the MOST OVERRATED manager in all of baseball, possibly second to Joe Torre.

 

Eventually, the pixie dust is going to wear out for the Cubs, and they should finish around the 72-78 wins this season.

 

Freudian slip?

[mul21]

The problem there is....the Cards no longer have a Whitey Herzog, or a Walt Jockerty as manager or GM of the franchise. LaRussa is an overrated douche, who won on the backs of players like McGwire, Canseco, Henderson(s), Honeycutt, Stewart, Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, etc, etc, etc. And he micro manages his team, which means the pressure is on Dave Duncan to get the most out of his pitchers. In other words...the Cards no longer has the "superior management" they once had. Their current GM, doesn't have the track record as a GM, and again LaRussa may be the MOST OVERRATED manager in all of baseball, possibly second to Joe Torre.

 

Eventually, the pixie dust is going to wear out for the Cubs, and they should finish around the 72-78 wins this season.

 

1. While I agree that LaRussa is a complete douche and does micromanage the snot out of his teams, he is very intelligent and does get more out of his teams than most other managers would. Therefore, not overrated.

 

2. Do you know anything about the Cards new management team? The guy who replaced Jocketty has already gotten rid of the albatross of Scott Rolen without paying any of his contract and was given the job because unlike Jocketty, he understands the value of sabermetrics and is willing to work with the Cardinals scouting and development people to bring in guys who aren't old broken down veterans.

 

3. Dave Duncan is still Dave Duncan and still, for whatever reason, can get good performances out of historically craptatastic pitchers.

 

With that said, trust me, nobody is rooting harder than me for them to realize they aren't good and start to crap the bed. Hopefully we saw the beginning of that this weekend with them getting beat twice by the Giants. But get your facts straight, at this point I would much rather have the Cards front office in Chicago than the on we've got.

[KyHen]

The start to this season is starting to remind me of 2004. The Cubs had just mad the playoffs the year before and everyone was picking them and Houston to win the division and wild card, then the Cards came out of nowhere to win the division. I dont think it is going to happen, cause this cards team does not have half the talent that team had. But the start is reminding me of that season.

Most of the projection systems in 2004 thought very high of St. Louis, though.

 

This year... they project them to finish 4th or 5th.

 

Basically, I'm saying 2004 wasn't as much of a surprise as people make it out to be.