Tigers Contact Cubs about Bullpen Help

[Guest]

Would you guys trade Marmol for Renteria?

 

Make them throw in a prospect say...a Scott Sizemore, or a Matt Joyce, then I would. But trading a young, cheap valueable arm for a free agent to be EXPENSIVE SS is NOT an ideal trade, IMO. So again, if Detroit is willing to throw in a solid prospect with Renteria, then yeah I would Marmol for Renteria/prospect.

 

But the first goal, should be to trade Dempster before considering moving Marmol.

 

Marmol is a reliever.

 

Renteria fills a massive gaping hole.

 

It's a no-brainer.

Yeah, he fills a hole. But to plug up that hole by trading possibly our best reliever? Who also makes $9 mil less? No dice, unless they throw in a decent prospect.

 

If Wood craps out and/or someone gets hurt, the pen becomes thinner without Marmol there.

 

Marmol is still a reliever and is going to max out at 70-80 innings this year. If we were talking about an ace starting pitcher, that would be one thing. But we're talking about a reliever (and believe me, I love Marmol). If the Cubs even had a semi-decent shortstop in place, then I'd keep Marmol. But Renteria is a huge upgrade over Theriot/Cedeno. Also if the Cubs pen was weak, I might rethink this. But the Cubs are solid in the pen and could certainly survive without Marmol. Yeah they wouldn't be as good but they would, without a doubt, be a better team by adding Renteria and subtracting Marmol.

[Post Count Padder]

Let's trade them Ascanio for Jacque Jones.

I don't know about that Jones guy. He didn't hit well last year.

[Derwood]

i can't believe anyone would think that a (thoretical) Marmol for Renteria trade would in any way make the Cubs worse

[C.C.]

If the Cubs go out and get Roberts and Renteria? We'd win the division by 20 games. That would be one scary lineup!

[RedFlash]

Would you guys trade Marmol for Renteria?

 

Make them throw in a prospect say...a Scott Sizemore, or a Matt Joyce, then I would. But trading a young, cheap valueable arm for a free agent to be EXPENSIVE SS is NOT an ideal trade, IMO. So again, if Detroit is willing to throw in a solid prospect with Renteria, then yeah I would Marmol for Renteria/prospect.

 

But the first goal, should be to trade Dempster before considering moving Marmol.

 

Marmol is a reliever.

 

Renteria fills a massive gaping hole.

 

It's a no-brainer.

Yeah, he fills a hole. But to plug up that hole by trading possibly our best reliever? Who also makes $9 mil less? No dice, unless they throw in a decent prospect.

 

If Wood craps out and/or someone gets hurt, the pen becomes thinner without Marmol there.

 

Marmol is still a reliever and is going to max out at 70-80 innings this year. If we were talking about an ace starting pitcher, that would be one thing. But we're talking about a reliever (and believe me, I love Marmol). If the Cubs even had a semi-decent shortstop in place, then I'd keep Marmol. But Renteria is a huge upgrade over Theriot/Cedeno. Also if the Cubs pen was weak, I might rethink this. But the Cubs are solid in the pen and could certainly survive without Marmol. Yeah they wouldn't be as good but they would, without a doubt, be a better team by adding Renteria and subtracting Marmol.

 

The point I ws trying to make is....Marmol is not even making half a mill, whereas Renteria is making nearly $10 mill, so if the Tigers want to make that trade they would have to add a prospect to the deal to be "worth it" for the Cubs.

[Derwood]

Would you guys trade Marmol for Renteria?

 

Make them throw in a prospect say...a Scott Sizemore, or a Matt Joyce, then I would. But trading a young, cheap valueable arm for a free agent to be EXPENSIVE SS is NOT an ideal trade, IMO. So again, if Detroit is willing to throw in a solid prospect with Renteria, then yeah I would Marmol for Renteria/prospect.

 

But the first goal, should be to trade Dempster before considering moving Marmol.

 

Marmol is a reliever.

 

Renteria fills a massive gaping hole.

 

It's a no-brainer.

Yeah, he fills a hole. But to plug up that hole by trading possibly our best reliever? Who also makes $9 mil less? No dice, unless they throw in a decent prospect.

 

If Wood craps out and/or someone gets hurt, the pen becomes thinner without Marmol there.

 

Marmol is still a reliever and is going to max out at 70-80 innings this year. If we were talking about an ace starting pitcher, that would be one thing. But we're talking about a reliever (and believe me, I love Marmol). If the Cubs even had a semi-decent shortstop in place, then I'd keep Marmol. But Renteria is a huge upgrade over Theriot/Cedeno. Also if the Cubs pen was weak, I might rethink this. But the Cubs are solid in the pen and could certainly survive without Marmol. Yeah they wouldn't be as good but they would, without a doubt, be a better team by adding Renteria and subtracting Marmol.

 

The point I ws trying to make is....Marmol is not even making half a mill, whereas Renteria is making nearly $10 mill, so if the Tigers want to make that trade they would have to add a prospect to the deal to be "worth it" for the Cubs.

 

adding a prospect doesn't make him not get paid $10 million

 

by this logic you must think the Orioles need to send us a prospect in the Roberts deal as well

[RedFlash]

who cares? there's no salary cap, so it's a non-issue

 

There is a form of a salary cap, any team that goes over $120 mill (and I know the Cubs are safe for now) has to pay a Luxury Tax. So you have to cognizant of that fact.

 

And even if there wasn't a salary cap doesn't mean you should "spend, spend, spend" dang the consequences. It's not HOW MUCH you spend, it's HOW you spend it.

[RedFlash]

i can't believe anyone would think that a (thoretical) Marmol for Renteria trade would in any way make the Cubs worse

 

Nobody believes that. Quit making assumptions you can't prove.

[RedFlash]

adding a prospect doesn't make him not get paid $10 million

 

by this logic you must think the Orioles need to send us a prospect in the Roberts deal as well

 

True, but what happens if Renteria craps out in 2008, and the Cubs decide his option isn't worth picking up, what then? You would have traded a valuable young arm for a 1 yr rental. Not a good deal. You need protection in case the deal doesn't work out in your favor.

 

Of course, I believe the O's should send a prospect to the Cubs in the Roberts deal, if they are pushing Jay Payton on us. That goes without saying.

[C.C.]

adding a prospect doesn't make him not get paid $10 million

 

by this logic you must think the Orioles need to send us a prospect in the Roberts deal as well

 

True, but what happens if Renteria craps out in 2008, and the Cubs decide his option isn't worth picking up, what then? You would have traded a valuable young arm for a 1 yr rental. Not a good deal. You need protection in case the deal doesn't work out in your favor.

 

Of course, I believe the O's should send a prospect to the Cubs in the Roberts deal, if they are pushing Jay Payton on us. That goes without saying.

 

Now who's making assumptions?

[BigbadB]

Wow, this argument is crazy. Baseball is not about trying to get the best players for the least amount of money. It's about winning divisions and playoffs and World Series. It's about putting the best team on the field everyday.

 

Wait a year or two for someone like Greene to maybe become available and maybe want to play for the Cubs? I don't think so. Derrek Lee, Aramis, Soriano, Fukudome and Zambrano are here now and they aren't getting any younger.

 

Renteria has WAY more value than Marmol. And the Cubs just happen to have a mammoth gaping hole at SS.

 

I know it's only a hypothetical, but come on. I like Marmol as much as the next guy, but for a quality SS, I'll drive him to Detroit.

[Tracer Bullet]

adding a prospect doesn't make him not get paid $10 million

 

by this logic you must think the Orioles need to send us a prospect in the Roberts deal as well

 

True, but what happens if Renteria craps out in 2008, and the Cubs decide his option isn't worth picking up, what then? You would have traded a valuable young arm for a 1 yr rental. Not a good deal. You need protection in case the deal doesn't work out in your favor.

 

Of course, I believe the O's should send a prospect to the Cubs in the Roberts deal, if they are pushing Jay Payton on us. That goes without saying.

 

Now who's making assumptions?

 

Zip City.

 

RedFlash posed a hypothetical (and a legit one). Zip City took "I don't want to trade Marmol for Renteria" and made it "trading Marmol for Renteria makes the Cubs worse." Two different things.

 

That said, I'd trade Marmol for Renteria in a heartbeat.

[mul21]

adding a prospect doesn't make him not get paid $10 million

 

by this logic you must think the Orioles need to send us a prospect in the Roberts deal as well

 

True, but what happens if Renteria craps out in 2008, and the Cubs decide his option isn't worth picking up, what then? You would have traded a valuable young arm for a 1 yr rental. Not a good deal. You need protection in case the deal doesn't work out in your favor.

 

Of course, I believe the O's should send a prospect to the Cubs in the Roberts deal, if they are pushing Jay Payton on us. That goes without saying.

 

Even if the Cubs let him go without picking up the option, there's a good chance they end up with a draft pick or 2 depending on how Renteria is classified for FA.

[Derwood]

one of the great values of cheap good prospects is to trade for an All-Star at a position of need

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It bears repeating, Marmol is only a reliever if you use him as one.

[CuseCubFan69]

It bears repeating, Marmol is only a reliever if you use him as one.

 

A good point, especially if the pen gets crowded (in a good way) and the vets fail as starters, he could swing in as a decent 4 or 5. I would have to assume that he would be valuable if Marshall and Gally are used to acquire Roberts.

 

Or, were you talking about using him at short? :stickman:

[Outshined_One]

A good point, especially if the pen gets crowded (in a good way) and the vets fail as starters, he could swing in as a decent 4 or 5. I would have to assume that he would be valuable if Marshall and Gally are used to acquire Roberts.

 

Or, were you talking about using him at short? :stickman:

 

He's a former catcher, after all!

[CuseCubFan69]

A good point, especially if the pen gets crowded (in a good way) and the vets fail as starters, he could swing in as a decent 4 or 5. I would have to assume that he would be valuable if Marshall and Gally are used to acquire Roberts.

 

Or, were you talking about using him at short? :stickman:

 

He's a former catcher, after all!

 

That's right and can probably hit better than Hill!

[nilodnayr]

who cares? there's no salary cap, so it's a non-issue

 

There is a form of a salary cap, any team that goes over $120 mill (and I know the Cubs are safe for now) has to pay a Luxury Tax. So you have to cognizant of that fact.

 

And even if there wasn't a salary cap doesn't mean you should "spend, spend, spend" dang the consequences. It's not HOW MUCH you spend, it's HOW you spend it.

 

The luxury tax limit is $155 million in 2008. So no, its not a concern at all.

[RedFlash]

who cares? there's no salary cap, so it's a non-issue

 

There is a form of a salary cap, any team that goes over $120 mill (and I know the Cubs are safe for now) has to pay a Luxury Tax. So you have to cognizant of that fact.

 

And even if there wasn't a salary cap doesn't mean you should "spend, spend, spend" dang the consequences. It's not HOW MUCH you spend, it's HOW you spend it.

 

The luxury tax limit is $155 million in 2008. So no, its not a concern at all.

 

I knew there was a salary cap, but the last number I heard was $120mil. Nonetheless, there is NO WAY Detroit would do a Renteria for Marmol deal, unless they feel Guillen is healthy enough to move back to SS. But considering they acquired Renteria in the first place, that suggests to me, they have no intentions of trading Renteria.

 

So this Renteria/Marmol confab is moot.

[Banghart]

To try to redirect this thread to something more realistic than a Marmol for Renteria trade which neither Detroit or the Cubs are considering doing, am I the only one who thinks Thames would be a nice bench option. I mean the Cubs haven't had right handed thunder on the bench since Angel Echeverria (can't believe I speeled Echeverria right on the first try). And trading from a position of strength to fill that need would be nice for a change. Would a Thames for Wuertz trade be reasonable for each side?

 

-Banghart

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm not sure Thames is a legitimate option in CF. If that's the case, we already have one decent back-up corner outfielder in Murton. Convince me that Thames is adequate being the right-handed platoon for Pie in CF, and then a Wuertz for Thames deal may make some sense. If he's merely a corner outfielder, I'll just let Murton be that righthanded bench OF and keep Wuertz.

[RedFlash]

I don't believe the Cubs/Tigers are a good fit for a team needed a RH platoon partner, trading with a team needing a relief help. I think a third team would be needed to make it work.

[TruffleShuffle]

they can have eyre for, say, a bag of used baseballs.

[Coach C]

they can have eyre for, say, a bag of used baseballs.

 

Eyre and Cotts for a bag of peanuts.